Dappa Dan

NOW try and edit that to make it seem like you were making a sensible point. Bold away. What I am TRYING to do is get you to stop quoting me. I don't WANT to block you, as it's a terrible way to go about a footy forum with strangers, and I can see you're not a troll, you're just hopelessly misinformed, and you're really very very bad at understanding Australian Rules Football. My interest in Jesse Hogan, demonland and posts promoting the idea of trading him (which you're backtracking on now, but I've PROVEN you want to do above, not that I expect you to see the simple fact I've shone a light on) is to debunk the ridiculous, and frankly absurd idea that the club gets anywhere with the trade you propose. Get this through your head. I DON'T BELIEVE WE NEED ANOTHER BIG NAME MIDFIELDER. Why? Because I'm not stupid. You can think what you want, but you open yourself up to ridicule when you try to pass your crackpot theories off as "facts." If we do need another player, midfielder or otherwise, there's plenty of other avenues to take. Our list is the envy of almost the entire league. You seem to have it in your mind that we need to have draft capital to trade on to get the next Dangerfield or something. No. What you NEED is to secure a good core of players, and allow the draft/free agency/wantaway players to take care of themselves while the core matures. Oliver, Hogan, Trac, Salem, Viney, Lever, Brayshaw, OMac, Fritsch, Hunt... THESE are the guys you cling to, and when you have needs you look to what you have to let go of, then you draft and trade accordingly. What we HAVE is two guys that are among the best KP players in their positions IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE... who are not even 25 yet... And you want to say sayonara to one of them to get in "a couple" of top line midfielders. If that's true, then does Harmes get a game? You know Harmes? Our BEST midfielder on the weekend in the biggest game we've played in 12 years? Who outplayed Oliver, Tracca, Shuey, and a host of others? We have the IDEAL list build to contend for the next 5 years, spearheaded by a guy who's been a superstar from the first day he wore the red and blue, in the best attack IN THE GAME... and you want to break it up because you think we have too many KP forwards. And you think you're being CREATIVE?!!! Get a grip. Stop panicking about the state of our midfielders. They're growing at exactly the rate they should, maybe even AHEAD of where they should be. The big names that will represent the club in the Bartel/Ling/Scarlett/Ablett roles are already there... it's just they've only just ticked over 50 games. Like you, I'd like to see a touch more silk (though not at the expense of hard at it players)... Everyone in the league is looking for that. But we CAN get it through other means. Face facts. Hogan is NOT someone we push out the door. As I've said before, if he wants to go, then that's a WHOLE other level of damage control. But until he shows signs that he's out, we get every last minute out of him we can. And as I say, you go ahead and have your wacky ideas. That's what we're here for. But you can expect me to prove again and again how daft this one is.

That's news to me. Excellent. If Foles went to greener pastures and we had Sudfeld as the backup, I wouldn't be altogether annoyed. But it'd be a sad day.

I CAN tell you what it is you want.... Because you already TOLD us what you want. You see how to use the quote button? PLEASE stop using it on my posts. You've said nothing new for, what are we up to? 8 quotes now? When you come up with something new that ISN'T idiotic mindless babble about trading the best forward we've had since Neitz... THEN feel free to post away. But even then, please... Let me type this nice and slow now since you've ignored it yet again... DO NOT QUOTE ME.

Would you categorize both as career backups? Or is Kizer looked at as an heir to Rodgers? What would you suggest is Rodgers' retirement age? 40+?

Started well hasn't he. Very interesting. Like I said last year, I thought Hundley was gonna be ok. But as time went on he did make a bit of a fool out of me.

It's amazing we have (easily) the best attack in the game given the quality of our inside fifty ball. Even on the weekend it was spectacularly bad at times. Goody's got a quantity over quality thing going with inside fifties... But I'd love to see us use our good kicks going inside fifty a bit more, rather than solely out of defence. Salem is a good example. Melks has already covered himself in glory in this field. Kent is a really, really important player in this regard.

Will he ever. I had no idea the umpiring thing was such a hot topic for WC and their supporters.

Yeah the whole league has learned so much from us. I wonder if you remember around the time Neitz was wrapping up and we turfed all our stalwarts like Bruce, Yze, Robbo, White and others. Either tapped them on the shoulder or played them less... and went hell for leather at a youth policy that saw us in the doldrums for over a decade. I remember back then I has such faith in the club to teach and bring up young players, and wanted the mediocrity gone so badly I was all for a full top-down rebuild. Roos got it right though. Get Cross and Vince to teach the kids and buy in to the new squad mentality. Brilliant. Long way to go of course, but it's now been definitively a successful investment. Need to cultivate a Howie Roseman now. Mahoney, anyone?

Coach's dream isn't he. Weed has to play whatever games we get for the rest of the year even if he struggles. You gotta see what you have. And even if he fades in and out of games, he only needs a quarter to impact it. And barely anyone's stated yet the difference it made to Max's game being able to have a chop out who has an impact at the centre bounces.

So you've been wrong for two years now. That is new information. Can't say I'm interested in it, or that it matters. You absolutely DO want to trade him. Go back over our recent messages and your "play Weed, trade Hogan" stuff and say with a straight face that you DON'T want him to be traded. "Truth be known" that's not a truth in any way shape or form. Jesse has been tried up the ground as a roaming CHF, midfielder, even the odd stint in the ruck and desperation move at CHB. He's kicked bags of goals again and again playing as a deep forward, at a better rate that some of the games GREAT deep forwards, all in a time when defence reigns supreme. I must have said this half a dozen times, and every time proved you wrong. I won't be doing it again. Put your fingers in your ears all you like, just don't quote me. Weid will be a great deep forward will he? Well you may be right. How many games has he played as a deep forward? How many goals has he kicked? How many did Jesse kick with a poor midfield in his games at the equivalent time? Once again, your formatting needs help. "On the other hand, 'Weide' will be very good deep forward" is an opinion built on... well I can't for the life of me see what it's built on... but it's an opinion. The FACTS are that Jesse, in a direct comparison, is already ten times the deep forward Weed is. You wanna talk predictions? Then I go back to what I said over and over and over again... Let's come back to this when their careers have settled and see how they look. "Now, with these forwards, and Tmac as well.... who plays CHF just as well as Hogan" No. He doesn't. He's kicked a lot of goals, but he's not as good as Hogan is. How often do you see them triple team Tmac. "what else do we have as options, to get the class Mids into the lineup, which we need." Free agency. Trade. Draft. Any other questions? We'll be fine with the brigade we have + the regular influx of players. We're a destination club. We DON'T get better by trading out the second best young KP forward in the league. What's this now. Seven times? "So, there's some more facts, for you to chew on." Give me strength.... Those were for the most part OPINIONS. Not FACTS. How long has it been now and you still don't know the difference? I'll say it again. Please stop quoting me.

I think I might just have my first. Good suggestion. Yeah. Bit of Ballantyne to him though. As he says often he wasn't as gifted as his team mates (who was?), so he had to resort to other methods. Back in those days though he was just what we needed. Had that angry little nugget attitude.

Weird feeling. Hated/admired him as a player. Very punchable face. What a way to spend my day off.

Pointing out facts, DV. You should be used to it by now.

Recruiting of Neeld. Trading of Thommo. lol

I was with you when my brother suggested it halfway through last year, and I laughed in his face. So we took a closer look and I have to say... he's made an absolute fool out of me. But we all see the game differently. We could come back to this later in his career. There actually isn't too much data to go off as far as his field kicking goes.

Oh I do. But it's nothing compared to the GFs. Again. Just my opinion. Not trying to change your mind, mate. Oooh yeah. I still have mates who are yet to come back to following MFC closely since the Balme era. Daniher was my big one. Two finals = Div title. Yeah I get what you mean. If you're good enough to be in the top 6 in a conference (6/16) then that's mathematically harder than making finals in the AFL (8/18). So I get what you mean.

Jesse has no problem with a hard ball. What I'd like to see him eradicate completely is him appealing to umpires while the ball is still live.

Yeah and then he sort of sooks when he's had bad delivery. TMac, him and Gawn rotating through the forward line is a coach's dream.

Yeah. I've been having this discussion all week it seems. Have to agree to disagree of course, but if "working out" a forward, he still is in the top 5 in the Coleman the whole season, then I'll take that. And a lot of this "he's been worked out" stuff has come since he hurt his foot. Before that he was smashing everyone. And anyway, do you think they won't work out Weed and TMac? Both aren't nearly as versatile as Jesse. As you say, no need to trade him, but I'd love to see him wander far and wide. He's so good at all facets of the game, even when the ball hits the deck and he needs to evade/deliver to a team mate under pressure. That skill is so hard to find, especially at demons where we still want for skills. Get him where he can get 25+ touches regularly and watch him HURT teams. If he turned into a rich man's Tom Lynch (Adelaide version) I'd be pumped.

Sorry to butt in to your discussion... but where has this come from? He was taking pack marks game in game out his first few seasons. This year he's been playing up the ground, and hasn't been able to jump or lead at a ball since the bye. He's been cleaning up 3 players in packs and bringing the ball to ground since he debuted 4 years ago. Have people completely forgotten? Also, yes, I'd like to see him wander to the part of the ground he's needed in the most. If you take a close look he has a serious claim to being our best field kick.

Really good post. The key word there is RATIONAL. It's not just Jesse. They should be considering player values from the top of the list down. Every player has a price, as they say. What I object to is fairweather supporters who call for his trade after one bad performance, as though he's not a huge part of making finals this year. He's shown virtually no sign of wanting to go home. The only question mark was when he signed his last contract, where he said he considered it but knew he couldn't leave the club in the state it's in. We really are a destination club. So yes, always field offers. What if you get a Godfather offer? What if it was something ridiculous like Lynch and a first rounder? They'd be mad not to have some serious meetings about that. Overall though, if you DO take a rational approach, Hogan is probably second only to Lynch in the pecking order of the young KP forwards going round in the game right now. You don't SEEK to trade a guy like that. If he comes to you and says I need to go home, then fair enough... but that's different. That's damage control. Your second point I quoted above... I'd just point out... If Lever is worth back-to-back first rounders, then Hogan is CERTAINLY worth the same. He's a forward, and he's a better player. Lever was pick 10 last year and pick 11 (or later depending on how well we do) this year. If Freo offered 6/7ish pick... they'd better throw in a LOT more.

I believe the club I follow did, yes. Interesting. You'd have been up to your neck in success when Rodgers won the superbowl a few years back. Was that not a much more impactful thing? I'd never seen an MFC OR NFL flag until 6 months ago. I don't really have that much experience with what I'm supposed to do, it must be said. One of the BEST things about being in playoffs/finals... is you get to enjoy sport for weeks longer than you would usually. Just yesterday's game means I can read the Age and the Hun for the entire two week break before finals, and really see MFC get some press. That sort of thing is a gift. Was the same for Eagles... They got the bye, then some luck against Falcons... and it just meant you got a whole month more than you would have gotten otherwise. I still don't know what to do with myself. lol

In the pre-season diatribe he was very subtly pushing our case. I got the feeling he didn't want to have to argue the point, as he knew people would scoff at him picking a side who's been so disgraceful for so long. But he was using his stats nous, and list build theories to put forward the case that we're a side built for finals. Not a perfect side, but a contested/clearance side. Has love us for at least 18 months. G'day Kingy, if you're wandering through here. Appreciate the support.

I have to say, even with all the MFC joy of the last 24 hours... Is it just me or is this pre-season really dragging?

It was at its worst during the Steve Smith debacle.