Dappa Dan

Wow. Goff into the 30s in NFL top 100 @Gorgoroth

Ah I see. I think we're clashing on definitions here. To me Jack Watts is a 200+ game player, but a draft bust. According to the yanks though, you have to be an absolute disaster of a footballer to be termed that, so I can see the confusion there. Yeah, again, all about opinions. I'm not comparing those players directly to Billings. Some aren't even similar to him in any way, like AVB for example. My only point is the list management one. If we decided half those names weren't up to it at AFL level, then yeah, Billings becomes a target. But it's clear Goody loves a lot of those names and wants them in his side. For what it's worth I want to see all of them at MFC next year, including Garlett and AVB. No you can't guarantee. Unless you're working for MFC? In which case, for gods sake get off this board. lol What you can do is attempt a prediction. I don't agree with it though, which I reckon is all we're doing here. If the Saints get rid of him and it's not for a first rounder, then I'll come back and see I was right. 70 games for a pick 3, then traded out for a second rounder is a bust in my book. You're welcome to assure me. I'm going to assure you though, that we won't take him if we still have our current crop of small forwards. The whole thing is a bit of a yawn for me really. I mean... After yesterday it's clear we have a need for speed and skill through the midfield. Shiel-type/Gaff-type players. Mostly though we need a graders. We were shown up badly by some big name mids, and Billinsg doesn't solve that. Just more of the same.

What the hell are you talking about. Wingard's played multiple super seasons, dual all-australian under 25. Stupid comparison. He's a star out of form (til the weekend) and being played out of position. How does he compare? Billings kicked 5 goals in a game and everyone got on board last year, but he wasn't the second coming of Gary Ablett jr was he. He's massively over-rated and is currently a big draft bust. He's played 70 games and you can count on one hand the ones he affected the result like the star he was drafted to be. Lynch was a first rounder, 3 years into his career he hadn't done much and went for a second rounder. And he was a KP forward... a rarer commodity than a 183cm mid. You can rate him as high as you want, but you're delusional if you think he's worth a first rounder. First rounders only go to players who've put together whole seasons. And yes, I did watch Billings last year. If that was supposed to be his breakout year, then I call it a draft bust. Bont was taken a pick after, and has left Billings in his wake. The Braysh comparison is at least closer to the mark. The injury side of things is where they differ. I'm not suggesting Tyson as a straight swap. I do reckon the Saints would love a player like him though, and he's viewed by many (not me) as surplus. Tyson plus overs would make sense. As I said in previous post, we're "swimming" in small forwards. Jeffy can't even get a game. He kicked 40+ last year. Hannan, ANB, Melksham, Harmes, Tracca, Spargo, Kent, AVB, Balic, Fritsch, Bugg.... all are serious players who've played serious minutes. Many are champing at the bit to get a game. Billings probably offers slightly more than a few of those names, but giving up a first rounder for a player in an area we're already strong is just dumb list management. In other words, Billings' value is what he gets in a trade. Right now there isn't a club who'd give up a first rounder for him.

lol @ poll results. He's been a great get. Did everything he could on the day. Gee some people are hard to please.

Define "selling him short?" I know he was setting the AFL world on fire last year. I'm not saying we shouldn't be interested. It's only a question of price. He's not worth an early-mid second rounder. With a player who's draft value is almost entirely potential-based, you shouldn't give up good draft capital. Refer to Lynch (I know, I know... he's a KP forward and they take longer)...he was a first rounder who was traded for a late second rounder... That's the key. If you take a highly drafted player and hope that his potential works out at another club, then that's ok, provided you don't give up much to get him. Besides all that, it's more about how much room you have in your 22. Who wants to see him languishing at Casey when our fleet of small forwards are dominating at AFL level? It's not that he's not good enough. But a small forward? We're swimming in them at the moment.

Little bit of Benken around him. If you traded a second rounder for him, you'd likely be eyeing the second rounder's career as a comparison, and not be happy with what you see. The real question is... we'll have plenty of players wanting to play for us. So do we need him over another small forward who's keen on the red and blue? Is there even ROOM in our 22 for a small forward? MFC's small forward brigade would, as of now, be one of the hardest roles to get a game in league wide. When you consider our starting Fs, there always seems to be about 14 of them. So good luck to anyone trying to squeeze those guys out. I'm all for the trading of a 3rd rounder, or a past-it spud for a former top 4 pick. As long as the club realises that's all they're doing. Trading for pretty much a draft bust.

It could still happen, Bradford style. We're a long way from week 8... The usual media on Wentz. Cleared for 7 on 7 this week and on track to come back in time. Players saying he is throwing it as well or better. It's all the regular stuff though... we won't know anything til we see him move. His ability to evade is critical to his success. Personally, I have Goff as the sllliiiiightly better arm for release time and precision. If Wentz can't go sideways, he will need to find some clever new tricks to get past Goff.

Funny isn't it... Here I was when he smoked the Vikings like they were the Crows in Alice Springs, licking my chops at the first rounder he MIGHT be worth 2 weeks later if he was superbowl MVP in a winning side against the greatest coach and QB of all time (the QB throwing 500 yards, records tumbling all over the place)... Fast forward a few months, let the thrill die down (it hasn't), take a look at the surrounding befuddlement of the QB market... and after all that? I want Foles to stick around. He's earned a starting job... Nothing is more certain than that. Also nothing is more certain than the fact that Wentz could do 3 more ACLs and he'd STILL be the starting QB of the Eagles. And STILL, Foles' best chance to enjoy his career, job, life, success... is at the champs. For now. I still think our overarching point from months ago holds true. Wait til preseason week three, someone will get hurt somewhere. They'll kick the tires on Bridgewater. They sniff around a few others. And someone, somewhere, will offer a first rounder. To be honest though, I'm still that overcome with gratitude with the ridiculous level he played at that I hope they let him choose. I know that's more than likely the footy romantic in me, but still... As for ideal teams? A team that's close to playoffs but needs that next guy... Ravens, Cinci, imagine if Rivers suddenly declined/got hurt and Foles got moved to Chargers?!...

How will 80 rank among our major goalkickers since the golden age of FFs? Neita kicked 82-ish when he won the Coleman... Holy smokes just looked... Going backwards from 2017... 42, 41, 44, 20, 28, 29, 40, 55, 29, 26, 42, 68, 73, 69, 65 and in 2002 Neitz won it with 82. Best before that was Bennett with 87 in 1990... then before that no-one has kicked more than 80 other than Fanning in 1947 (97), and 1944 (87)... and Norm 3 times in the 40s. Blimey.

Not just the validity, more the chinese-whispers nature of it. I would imagine that every player on every list in the AFL (of any quality) gets discussed in trades, every year. Even when on long term contracts, if they're good enough, their management and the clubs' management would be remiss NOT to discuss them, even years before they might become available for a trade. In all likelihood, in one of these phone calls (of which there will likely be hundreds over Jesse's career) the club said that the price on Jesse's head is something ridiculous like 2 first rounders and an All Australian player. After that, it gets around that the demons are "shopping" him, despite the fact they tried to place a price on his head no club would agree to. Then after that, the rumours start on internet chatrooms, and the details get lost. Noone should target Beetle for raising the point, but the onus is on us to treat it as what it is. A rumour sometimes is just a rumour.

Some on here will yawn, but this is one of those handful of areas that the American's have a lot to teach us. They have a league where you can fire your coach, bottom out, and win a superbowl within 2 seasons if you make the right calls with your list and drafts. IMO the priority picks should never have been taken away. The Blues got their double dip before us, and then after we got ours the Eddies of the world chucked an all-too-predictable hissy fit and they were gone. Meanwhile the Blues did nothing, and the Demons went ten years before even thinking about finals. The above posters are right when they suggest good leadership is what clubs need. But there's only so many leaders around that are bona-fide the way Roos is. And of those, some are off to jail and others know coaching bad clubs will put you in an early grave. There's no doubt in my mind that to get supporters in on the ground floor, early draft picks are a great thing. We should know better than most. I never saw a problem with a list in as dire straits as the Blues getting ONE pick to improve their outlook. Especially if it's after the first round. Something I think people are forgetting is that with such a low draft age, picks aren't much more than a pot shot, even in this day and age of clever recruiting. It's why we gave 2 (late) first rounders for Lever. They get to roll the dice twice, we get an All Australian. The NFL take their players at 21/22ish after they've had longer to prove themselves. Players who get taken out of high school as 4 star recruits VERY often do nothing in their College years and miss being drafted altogether. Our draft, by comparison, just isn't as big a deal as people make out. Scully and Trengove were absolute certainties when taken, and look what happened there. A couple more shots at what amounts to not much more than a lucky dip (after the first round) is exactly what the league should consider throwing at these basket cases. If for nothing else, they can use the pick as draft capital to trade for mature players.

People will laugh at me for this... but... I'd give up a third round pick for Darcy. An early one, too. He's not Tom Boyd.

NOTHING WRONG... with a bit of Weid.

Interesting the overwhelming Weid love here. I was expecting much more anti-weed sentiment.

I'd take him in a shot. Fills a lot of needs for us. I was banking on us getting Prestia who was the same, and apparently we very nearly did. Gaff probably the priority, but failing that, I'd take Dylan. Not that we have much to trade.

He'd be a good get. But it would mean we've gone away from the contested ball identity we've been on about under Goody. Many think we need X amount of inside players and Y amount of outside. Under the current list management structure, they've gone for ALL contested beasts. Even the FF is expected to drift in the middle and clear the ball. So it wouldn't surprise me to see us overlook him, or just not offer as much as, say, the Saints who would offer a first rounder and more for him.

Ha. Yeah good luck with that boys. Same with the Rabbitoh the Eagles recruited who's never played a snap in his life. Has to face Cox, Bennett, Graham... Happy with the only handful of picks. Some guys who were hurt but have massive upside. A corner to take over from Robinson who's short but great. I like it. Made plenty out of not much draft capital. Filled all our needs. On a side note I was hoping we'd take Guice.

Tavon gooooooone! To the cowboys. @Gorgoroth happy?

The time dragged out is because draft day trades come thick and fast. They get phone calls from potentially 31 clubs. And if one of them is one they can't refuse they take it. Tends to happen more after the first 6 picks, but they happen consistently. It'll be the same in the AFL from as early as this year, potentially.

The Allen thing... are they just all about him cos they've seen how Wentz has gone? If so, crazy.

Me too. I mean... Like I said I'd have taken, happily, a move from 32 to 15 where Arizona are picking... but if that's out of the question, then my Wentz knee fear wins any Foles debate in my head. Eagles are in a situation where their backup QB is more feared now than some starters. How often in the NFL does that happen. So has anyone earmarked a player with their team's first pick? I have my eye on whatever RB the Eagles identify. I poo-pooed the Blount pickup at the start of last year, and he was absolutely integral the the Eagles year. Not always massive stats, but important goal line carries most weeks, and all through playoffs including a great, great superbowl. I have my eye on Chubb... the RB variety... who will still be there at 32.

Yeah. "May." I was more "hoping" he'd get traded as I wanted that first rounder. But wasn't interested in a late second rounder, as Jimmy G got better than that. Always felt pre season or early 2018 was most likely, but certainly didn't see a minor contract extension coming, not in today's day and age of fast and furious trades. It was an extension they didn't need to do, so I'm pretty pleased they tried to help him out.

I think we all settled on that. The debate was more about what he'd be worth in a trade, rather than the likelihood. I thought all along that with Wentz's knee being as it was, the preference would be either a first rounder, or to keep him. As you say, it'll go on and on the will-they-won't-they talk. Part of me thinks they might eventually tire of the speculation and move him on just to stop the external noise.

Eagles are still partying... Won't be attending at all. Interestingly, they hosted the draft last year, and within a few months hoisted the Lombardi in the same place. After all the Dallas trolling. Pretty sweet. Only problem with that... It's in Dallas this time. So speaking of draft... How we feeling @Macca @Clintosaurus @Gorgoroth @Kraken @JV7 @DeeSpencer? Any early picks? Aside from the usual QB talk, I'm interested in Barkley the most. Will he be Zeke or Richardson? And what about Chubb? Speaking of QBs.... The Foles trade didn't end up happening @Macca

Not to barge in uninvited... Maybe you can't. But you can argue whether or not the issue's are even worth raising. I don't see it as any different to the age old question of "some players take longer than others." You can point out faults in nearly every player's game in that way. Having those faults isn't an indicator of future success though. Judd wasn't a good kick. TMac has woeful kicking skills. Similarly a kid like Harmes? Nothing on a football field he can't do. But does he do it? Not nearly as often as he should. Why? Because of his age, games experience, cumulative pre-seasons and the style of game he plays. In the context of their careers, the time for guys like him and ANB is NOW. Have they become whipping boys? Not at all. This "whipping boy" crowd have let them go largely unnoticed. Yet a kid like Oscar who's at a relatively similar age and experience in terms of games played, and is playing a much harder one-on-one role that traditionally NO-ONE does well at within their first 100 games (Rance, anyone?)... is poleaxed here and elsewhere. Anyway, you've heard all pro-Oscar and anti-Oscar rhetoric. It's been nothing but that for the whole time he's played seniors. The reason I've chimed in here is that (maybe for the first time) demonlanders are pointing the finger at themselves. What are WE doing right and wrong. For what it's worth, having been posting here for the last 15 years or so, when you look at the full scope of a player's career, the whipping boy "finding faults" mentality you raise is infuriatingly useless. And probably, in the end, only harmful to a kid's development. And in the end, so often the groupthink thing is just plain WRONG. Not taking aim at you and jnr and the regular posters here who love their footy and know what they're talking about, but holy smokes, some people just plain don't know footy. The Oscar "whipping-boy" thing is one of the better examples. He's doing exactly what he should be doing as a KP defender that's early in his career.