Doggo

6 - James McDonald

5 - Simon Buckley

4 - Cale Morton

3 - Matty Bate

2 - Addam Maric

1 - Mark Jamar (for all his flaws, i still gave him a vote. Beating Hille is no easy feat)

Jamar consistently does (make poor decisions) and it is a flaw. It would be a frustrating forum if everytime we have something to say about one player, we then have to trail through the other 43 players on our list comparing them all

Mark Jamar, I feel, is falling into the same basket as the Ben Hollands and the Simon Godfreys of the world.

He has all the effort but just lacks the skills to cut it as a good footballer who will really positively impact the future of our club

IMO He's not part of our future.. not a successful one anyway .

I've been saying this for years. Jamar can improve all he wants, but ruckwork aside, i dont think he'll ever be AFL-quality.

He has to be the most flawed footballer at our club IMO, if not in the whole league.

The thing that irks me about Jamar is his absolute lack of skill. Yesterday was a perfect exapmle of this...

He just doesnt seem to have the natural ability to play football. Period.

However... He's a great ruckman, would jump on a hand grenade for the team and generally always gives his all. It's just given his limitations, i don't see him going anywhere in the AFL in the future, except the scrapheap. I love that he was able to dominate Hille (IMO the A-A ruckman this year) in the ruck, and his big body is useful right after the ruck contest in contested situations. But what after that? He can take a big grab in the forwardline, but he doesnt do that often enough and as we saw yesterday, can often let himself down with his kicking, and while he is working harder than ever around the ground, he's still well below par.

I've written him off many a time, and so far this year he's done his best to prove me wrong. But i still believe he'll be a mediocre player at best, with horrible skills and decision making, poor athleticism and no versatility. If yesterday was his best game for the club then something is not right. (IMO his best game(s) have been against Sandilands).

Junior has the work ethic and attitude that Bailey will want to keep around the club as he tries to change the culture of the playing group. Junior is a shining example of how Bailey wants the team to act on and off field, with his selfless defensive running, tackling and super hard running. Also as a professional who keeps getting the best out of himself. Junior is still very worthy of a spot in our side for all these reasons and his ability to instill these selfless, team oriented characteristics into our younger players.

Our culture has been crap for years and Junior is the type of players that should be used as an example of what it should be. Hopefully so many players pass him by next year that his example is made in large parts at Sandy.

Agree with this completely.

I know bumbre supporters who would agree and would probably trade him for a packet of twisties.

IMO I've seen him go alright as the main man but when Hille plays and LAycock has to play second role, He's worse then siht. We don't have a first ruck so he fills a need. (Or maybe I've just been unlucky and watched the few games he's actually played well and missed all the junk).

I'll vomit in my mouth and hope i choke on it if we pick up Laycock. lol

I think you may well have been unlucky (or lucky, depends how u look at it i guess).

Contrary to popular belief, i still don't think his trade value will have risen much. He's gone from non-existent value, to perhaps a 4th rounder? He's getting a lot of the ball, playing predominantly loose off HB, where it's expected that you get big numbers. Especially when your team is bad and the ball is in the backline all the time.

I like CJ and have been impressed with him this year since his return, but the fact of the matter is he's probably of more value to us than he would be to any other team, purely because we've put those years into him developing him, and we're now seeing the rewards. He's got a lot of the ball since he's been back in, but i doubt too many others teams out there would be 'licking their lips' at the prospect of getting CJ, unless it were for dirt cheap, which in all honesty would not benefit us at all.

Wonder if laycock is playing?

Going terrible atm and at his lowest value (zero?).

I wonder. Essendon might feel its a good chance to give young Bellchambers another run against the lowly-Dee's.

For what it's worth, i don't rate Laycock at all, and i've got about 4 Essendon-supporter mates who agree with me completly. They prefer Jamar to Laycock ffs!

Big test for both this week against Hille

Definitely. Hille's in career-best form, so their performance willl be a great indicator of where our guys are at.

Will be an enthralling battle, i'm looking forward to it!

im not sure where you got the 11.4 from. i took the 9 hitouts from the article that was posted and that i was replying too. but the ball park stands. even if he hits 20% to advatange or whatever it is, its only 2 per game. nothing amazing. he isnt a ruckman at the moment. he is a big oversized midfielder wit a lovely kick. he needs to get more ball, and he needs to have a more focused role ie kick goals or win the ruck. that being said, i rate him and think he will turn out ok.

The 11.4 average came from his total hitouts this year (125) divided by the number of games he has spent playing in the ruck (11). Simple mathematics.

Point taken anyway. I do agree there is still room for improvement from him in regard to his rucking, but was simply making the point that he is not as bad as he's made out to be in this respect. He is a ruckman. Admittedly not a great one, as u said is more of a big ruck-rover like a Stynes or White, but at this stage, his stats would suggest he has been at least adequate and is improving.

What doesn't flatter his stats either is the fact he hasn't ever been given a chance to play in the #1 role. But, say for instance if Jamar were to go down injured early against the Bombers this week, and PJ then had to ruck 90-95% game time on the ball rucking solo, IMO he would be able to hold his own or at least break even in ruck, and on the plus side, would probably get close to 30 touches and 20+ hitouts around the ground and a goal or two. It'll happen soon i think...

Would it be worth him playing a role similar to what Quinten Lynch played on the w/end?

Kinda rotating between on-ball (not ruck) and CHF/FF?

Wouldn't mind seeing him line up on a wing every so often, definitely provide a mismatch if he pushed forwards.

The way he's being used at the moment, he is basically already playing that role. I think if White were to return to the team, then there'd be a real possibility we could see PJ on the wing, Richo-style, but i dont rate White's chances of getting back in to be honest.

I'm just waiting for that day when PJ explodes at the 'G and kicks a bag goals and has a heap of possies and marks, and dominates Richo-style, whether on the wing, floating thru HF or playing in the ruck. He went really well last week, so he's getting closer, he just needs to back it up a few more times before i can come out and say 'i told you so...!' to all the early doubters...

I'm glad you can assume intelligence based on one comment, and you should probably hope that most don't do the same for you.

Haha, that made me laugh.

I dunno... something different and light-hearted, if this doesn't build into a big thread, doesn't matter. LoL.

If you could build the ultimate Melbourne F.C footballer, using certain attributes of players from our current list... who would you pick???

Feel free to add more 'attributes' if you think of any.

Interesting topic! Does Neitz still qualify for this?

Fwiw...

Physical attributes

Height- Martin (198cm)

Build- Miller

Speed- Davey / Buckley

Endurance- Bruce / Dunn

Agility/evasiveness- Davey

Leap- Robbo / Sylvia

Mental attributes

Decision making- McLean / Davey

Leadership- Neitz(?). Green

Work-rate- Miller / Jones

Reading the play- Rivers

Skills

Kick- Davey / Wonaeamirri

Handball- P. Johnson

Mark- Holland

Tackling- Whelan

Set-Shots- Miller (improved out of sight this year, 18.3 from set shots)

All in all, we'd have a 198cm utility player, capable of playing Key Forward/Back, midfield and pinch-hitting in the ruck. The skills and pace of Davey, Miller's body, Robbo's leap, the work-rate of Jones, endurance of Bruce, Whelan's tackling and pack-marking strength of Ben Holland...

I think this bloke already exists...

Lance Franklin anyone?

what I saw of Sylvia was appauling. I made a point of watching his work rate yesterday as I saw exactly what I had been fearing....Nothing. I don't need to expand here as it has been done already but at some points yesterday, I swear his legs were painted on.

Agree. He's either not right physically (i.e. he's carrying an injury) which is not allowing him to work as hard as he'd like, and/or years of OP has taken it's toll and he no longer has the burst in his legs, along with the right attitude to work harder given those physical limitations. He looked slow and tired against the Roo's, and basically just looked lost.

I've abstained from commenting about Sylvia until now, but geez... he was really bad.

Someone hit the nail on the head in the '3-word player analysis' thread when they said: "was he drunk?"

He was playing without a brain or legs yesterday.

unfortunately he only averages 9 hit outs per game.

he needs to learn to ruck better.

Hate to nit-pick, but he actually averages 11.4 hitouts per game in the ruck this season, from 11 matches (of 13) playing as 'relief ruckman'. That's above average for most #2 rucks in the league. He is also leading our hitouts-to-advantage this season, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Remember, in the other 2 games, against Adelaide (R8, he played FB on Tippett) and Sydney (R13, played FF/CHF) he played as a full-time KPP, not contesting in the ruck at all.

Did you mean hayes or hughes?

Hayes never really looked likely, but hughes looked pretty good i thought more size about him though.

I'm sure he meant Hayes, but point taken. Daniel Hughes was around 186cm, delisted at the end of '07 after 2 or 3 seasons on the rookie list? Is still on the Sandringham list, i think, originally being from Hampton Rovers.

FWIW, i didnt really think either of them would make it, but i remember Hughes playing well in a NAB cup match a couple of years back. Hayes had some off-field and attitude issues, but was infinitely talented and with pace to burn. Just never got it together while he was in the system.

Dissapointing that Maric couldn't fill this role while Wonna was gone. I think he has the talent as seen with his few touches, but he doesn't demand the ball as much as Wonna does, maybe it was just positioning in the forward line, something he will learn.

Hopefully he'll be a very good player for us. His positioning wasn't too bad, and his widely-acclaimed skills look very nice. It seemed more just a lack of strength playing against men that held him back IMO.. Once he gets a bit more size about him, he'll be able to compete more effectively without getting pushed off the ball, which happened a few times on Sunday, and he'll hopefully develop into a star, as he has talent to burn. (Same thing could be said about Cale, and even Col Garland and Stef Martin. A couple of pre-seasons in the gym and these guys'll be great!).

Aussie does seem to demand the footy a lot more, even at this early stage of his career, and is also a lot more solid and nuggety in build than Maric. More ready-made for AFL, you could say, though he'll improve so much too with a full pre-season.

Exciting times ahead for our small-forwards. Lots to look forward to with these two young fellas..

Quick question -

Do you think he would have been rookied had Daniel Hayes remained at Melbourne?

Yep. Aussie has it all over Hayes. Where is Daniel even playing this season?

FWIW, Hayes had all the skills to make it, but somehow never ever even looked like getting close. He wasn't even playing as a regular for Sandy. Very much in the same boat to how Issac Weetra is playing now.

The thing is, I believe he does all the difficult stuff quite well. He is so clean below the knees for a man of his size that it's almost unbelievable, he uses it well and he's learned to take a grab over his head in recent times.

It's after the ball has been tapped in the ruck contests that he work is extremely poor -- and it's what Jamar does well. It surely can't be that difficult to bounce a few little blokes away to clear a path for your mids when you are his size.

He's a liability in the ruck. It's a real pity.

It's gotta be easier to teach a bloke the 'easy' stuff then it is to run and kick like PJ can.

I thought his physicality was outstanding today. He laid a lot of tackles in close, and used his big body really well. And when he was playing at CHF, was charging in hard off the line and cleaning blokes up in the guts. On at least 2 occassions his clearing a path directly resulted in clearances to teammates. He does need to improve on this aspect of his game when he is rucking, but today was a good step forward. I look forward to seeing the hitout to advantage % stat in the paper tomorrow- i thought he was fairly good at spotting teammates at the centre ruck duels.

If he can perform like he did today consistently, he'll be a very good AFL player.

Add to that the creepy attack of the seagulls all over the ground, the freezing weather and the pathetic morons who get paid to umpire the game, and it was not a good day for football.

A Kangaroo's supporter about 3 seats over to my right felt the full brunt of the 'attack', copping a fresh, steaming bird-poo on his head. Poor guy. I'm just glad it wasnt me.

6- P. Johnson - Our best by a fair way, IMO. Got heaps of the ball, used it really well, and threw his body around. Career-best game to date.

5- C. Johnson - Just keeps getting heaps of the footy, and uses it very well. Is doing much more defensively too.

4- Valenti - Along with Jones, controlled our engine room.

3- Buckley - Exiciting but reckless youngster.

2- Davey - A reasonable performance from Flash.

1- Warnock - Did the job on Corey Jones after he carved us up early.

Jones and Miller stiff to miss out.

Just had a look at the Freo one... cant stop PMSL!

I think it comes down to awareness and IMO Morton has this in bucketloads.

I've seen him grab the ball in the air and almost change direction before he hits the ground to divert an opponent off course. I've also seen him look like he's about to get caught in traffic, only to manage to find space and get out of traffic with a clever change of direction or movement of the hips. It is this awareness that will hold him in good stead.

Why I think he's getting caught a lot at the moment is a combination of lack of physical strength to break through or fend off challenges and just a lack of experience in the pace of the game. As he gets stronger over the years and adjusts to the speed of AFL footy, I think he'll improve rapidly in this area and won't be finding himself caught too often.

I agree that he wouldn't be playing at many other clubs. His body is nowhere near ready for the rigours of AFL footy. He's getting games for us because our list is poor, we have injuries and we are in a rebuilding phase. This is nothing against Cale, it's just the fact that his body is seriously underdeveloped and he probably wouldn't be exposed to as much AFL footy at this stage of his career in a stronger side.

I believe he has some fantastic attributes and is a really exciting prospect. Getting caught and making mistakes is not unusual for an inexperienced skinny youngster. But I've seen enough of him to know that he has the class and awareness, attributes that not all players are fortunate to possess.

Spot on post. Agree 100%

Doggo.....you must of loved that chase down on the Shermanator!

I can feel my pants tightening up now just thinking about it...

I know you love PJ, but how can you give him 2 votes and Martin one?

PJ had an ordinary game. Martin was outstanding in his third game while Garland continues to impress. Both were better than PJ IMO.

But I know you possess creepy man-love for PJ, so you probably have bigger issues to deal with right now

...we're all guilty of having at least one 'love child' aren't we, Jaded?

I thought PJ had a consistent game after IMO an outstanding 1st quarter. He didn't flash in and out of the game like many of his teammates, which is why he got into my votes this week. He seemed to rack up possies at will all day, and his finishing skills were a feature. It was a pleasant contrast to the bullocking and grunt work of Jamar, though IMO, Jamar still went missing for too long a period of time to be considered for votes.

Martin was fantastic in the first half, but seemed to fade (as expected from a guy in his 3rd game) as Freo got rolling. In hindsight, i'd probably give Martin the 2 and PJ 1, but as i said earlier, its so hard to give votes when i'm not at the game because you've got really no idea whats going on around the ground. For this reason I find it a lot harder to give votes to defenders when watching it on TV...

We've done this, it's Garland

Yep. By a mile...

I agree with basically all the sentiments already expressed here.

He WILL be a gun IF he can get his disposal right!

He's got all the ingredients to become an explosive and damaging player, his work-ethic is good and his defensive side has improved... but, if he keeps butchering it the way he does, he'll be the next David Spriggs. I hope for his and the clubs sake thats not the case.

I find hope in the fact that, if clubs can teach guys Tadgh Kennelly and Marty Clarke to be effective kickers and decision-makers with the ball, even after learning the game late, then theres hope still for Bucks, who at the moment looks more like an athlete than a true footballer- but with infinite potential. I initially see him filling a role similar to the above two irish players, running off half back for the next couple of seasons, until eventually, with more size, strength and experience, moving into the midfield full time (and hopefully, being a star! ).

But if he doesn't improve his kicking, at best, he'll be the next Daniel Ward, or just another athletic-but-NQR player, like Spriggs, dominating the state leagues.

People who want to trade Davey are deluded. He is the most exiting and skilled player on our list. He is not a Travis, he is not lazy. He is a small forward and sometimes midfielder. His disposal is second to no one in our team and I would rather see him with the ball than anyone. I don't expect him to play like Jones. He is not engine room, he is icing on the cake.

Agree completely.

I thought Davey was particularly good when we were up, in fact he was the main catalyst to our great start, and he wasn't our worst when we were getting belted. Unfortunately for an outside player like him, it's very difficult to have an impact when our inside ball-winners are getting smashed.