Doggo

Can't say I'm convinced, but u gotta love YM's enthusiasm.

FWIW, if we do win (and thats a big IF), it'll probably look more like this:

Mel: 2.3, 6.5, 10.6, 15.11 (101)

Col: 3.1, 6.4, 7.8, 13.12 (90)

Goals: Bate 3, Morton 2, Petterd 2, Johnson 2, Miller, Jetta, Moloney, Davey, Green, Buckley 1.

Best: McLean, Rivers, Moloney, Green, Johnson, Cheney, Bate

Fingers crossed!

My (updated) teams and matchups for Round 2- (Wrote this up last night. Taken from dave86's preview thread):

B: GARLAND WARNOCK RIVERS

F: Anthony Rocca Medhurst

HB: CHENEY FRAWLEY BARTRAM

HF: Didak Cloke Davis

C: BUCKLEY MOLONEY BRUCE

C: Thomas O'Bree Lockyer

HF: GREEN MILLER DAVEY

HB: Maxwell Brown Toovey

F: PETTERD BATE JETTA

B: Shaw O'Brien Clarke

FOL: JOHNSON McLEAN McDONALD

FOL: Fraser Swan Pendlebury

INT: SPENCER, JONES, MORTON, BENNELL

INT: Bryan, Johnson, Cox, Beams

COL- IN: Rocca, Shaw, Beams

OUT: Reid, Goldsack, Prestigiacomo

MEL- Unchanged

There's been a lot of talk on here about changes for next week but having thought about it over the last day or so, i actually think Dean Bailey & co. will go with an unchanged lineup against Collingwood, barring any injury concerns. Sylvia may get lucky and possibly push Jamie Bennell out of the side, but Bennell hardly put a foot wrong in his debut. Not in his favour is the fact the 'Pies don't have the same plethora of slight, speedy small forwards as the 'Roos do, and Bennell may just get dropped due to lack of matchup (as well as needing to hit the gym), not to mention our obvious need for more marking targets in the forward line. Sylvia or Stefan Martin may be called upon in that instance, although Martin should probably spend some time learning to play forward at Casey before being tried in that position at AFL level. Newton may also be an outside chance, although his form has been patchy at best.

FORWARD

Looking over the two teams, one of the first things i notice is that Prestigiacomo doesn't have an immediate match up. For this reason I believe he may be dropped, purely on a 'horses for courses' basis. Maxwell might have been playing midfield so far this year, but he is a very accomplished backman and, IMO, he's a perfect matchup for any one of Melbourne's mid-sized marking forwards in Green, Petterd or Bate. Presti' would probably only be a suitable matchup for Miller playing deep, or possibly Bate, but is at risk of being led far out of his defensive 50 and exposed for agility further up the ground. Paul Johnson is the other match-up that would suit him, but expect PJ to spend more time in the ruck and less forward, as he did against the Roos. Unless Newton plays (which is highly unlikely), there is no-one for Prestigiacomo to play on.

Despite Bate's shocker last week at FF, he should be given the next few weeks to settle into FF before a change is made. He has, after all, been training for that position all preseason. Miller will be used in his lead-up CHF role and Nathan Brown seems the logical matchup for him at CHB. I think Maxwell will start on one of Green or Petterd. We've all seen what Green is capable of as a forward and Petterd showed last week he looks very natural and comfortable up front, as well as being a deceptively strong mark for his size. Reminded me a lot of an early Russell Robertson-- the wobbly tumble punt set shot, then the magnificent checkside goal on the run, the big leap, courage and complete disregard for his own safety in marking contests-- just screamed young Robbo to me! Shaw is the likely matchup for the other of these two.

I've gone with dave86's suggestion that Toovey start on Davey, and picked Marty Clarke to try and run and rebound off Jetta.

As has been the case for the last two years, Melbourne will struggle in the forward line due to a lack of strong key targets. Unless one (or all) of Bate, Miller, Green or Petterd can present strongly and score multiple goals, Melbourne might be competitive around the ground but will struggle to kick a winning score. Aaron Davey is another who desperately needs to be applying more scoreboard pressure.

MIDFIELD

In the midfield McLean and Swan to go head to head, as will O'Bree and Moloney. I doubt there will be any really hard tags put on, especially not by the 'Pies who will be thinking 'all-out attack'. However, if Swan or Pendlebury start firing expect Bartram (or McDonald) to man either up, with Cheney to swap over to Davis and Bruce to Didak down back. Johnson will want to make amends for his poor efforts on McIntosh last week, despite his improved ruck work. More will be needed of him around the ground against Fraser, although expect him to win his fair share of ruck contests. McIntosh is probably the more accomplished tap ruckman out of he and Frasier, and PJ more than broke even in ruck contests against him (although was particularly poor accountability wise). He will need to be wary of Frasier running forward of the ball to provide another marking option up forward as McIntosh did last week. Spencer and Johnson should both have the measure of Chris Bryan when Fraser is off the ground or resting up forward.

Despite breaking even in the clearances and contested ball, Melbourne's midfield looked pedestrian at times against the Roo's. Buckley, Davey and Morton all need to step up from last week, as their run and carry will be a very important factor if Melbourne are to challenge.

BACKLINE

In the backline Garland should get first crack at Anthony, Warnock to go to Rocca and Frawley to Cloke. Each of those key matchups seems the most logical physically and in terms of style of play. Garland will have the speed and reach to go with the strong-leading Anthony, Warnock the strength to compete one-on-one with Rocca, and Frawley the athleticism and overhead ability to man Cloke as a high forward. Rivers will play his customary 'quarterback' role helping out the other talls, most likely lining up on Medhurst and zoning off where possible. I'd give Cheney first crack at playing on Didak, with Bruce and Garland as Plan B & C should Cheney fail, as Didak is capable of really causing us some damage both at ground level and in the air. I like Bartram to do a hard-tag on the lively Leon Davis as he did on Harvey last week in defence and up the ground.

The backline were great against the 'Roos and expect them to give their all again. The 'Pies have some dangerous small-mid forwards who are good marks for their size, in Medhurst, Davis and Didak, as well as Thomas who spends some time in there. All will need to be played very tightly. Bennell may be called upon to man a Davis or Didak, although i fear his lack of body strength may be easily exposed against stronger opponents than North's mosquito fleet.

Melbourne's disciplined young defensive group is coming along in leaps and bounds and if the midfield give a good account of themselves, the key posts should be solid enough to be able to keep the Demons competitive.

RESULT

I love my Demons as much as anyone here on Demonland, and nothing is more pleasing than to see them bury the Magpies as rank-outsiders. But the reality of the situation is Collingwood are a side who should be legitimately pushing for a top 4 position come September, whereas the Dee's will most likely be occupying a place towards the bottom of the table. Without strong marking targets up forward, I fail to see how Melbourne will be able to kick a winning score. Much like last week, the Dee's will be competitive for the majority of the game, but in the end will lack the firepower to put the Pies away as our young kids run out of steam.

As much as i hate to say it, Collingwood by 25 points.

Ruckmen are usually picked primarily to do ruck work, or at least that's the theory. But statistically at least McIntosh wasn't dominant in the ruck. He had 21 taps with 14% effective. PJ had 18 with 28% being effective. Melbourne lost first possessions 32 to 35 and broke even on clearances. There was no dominant ruckman on the ground. What North Melbourne had was a ruckman able to do more than ruck. He ran, marked and kicked goals. It was his midfield skills which were responsible for our demise not his ruckwork.

I'm of the school that thinks the ruckman is a dying species. If you've got a good one that's great but he'll only really impact games with his skills once the ball is in play. Having said that, you need a ruckman that is competitive.

Anyone who watched Fremantle play Western Bulldogs yesterday and saw Aaron Sandilands taps continually sharked by the opposition small men will put the contribution of ruckmen in perspective.

Ruckman are certainly not dead, they're just a sideshow. Midfielders who can kick on the other hand.......

Very well put. I'm a keen follower of what ours and opposition ruckman do on the field and i couldn't agree more. Summed up my thoughts entirely.

Why? What's with people saying Frawley goes? I thought he was one of our best against the Roos.

Agree. I certainly don't understand it. I don't recall him making many mistakes or being comprehensively beaten on any occasion against the Roos. Makes you wonder what game some people were watching.

Thanks Redleg, we all love stories like that.

That is the pleasure from this season, and next; watching these talented young Demons play, fail, learn, develop, and make their mark for the club.

It was a delight watching Garland, Buckley, Martin, Morton, and Wonaeamirri last year, as it will be to watch Cheney, Petterd, Spencer, Frawley, Maric, Grimes, and, maybe, Jurrah this year.

Absolutely agree! Could not have worded that any better. Exciting times ahead in the next few years for our club.

And you could probably add Watts to that list too for a debut late in 09. I'm definitely excited!

Great post Redleg, would have been awesome getting in there and seeing all the future of MFC bonding.

Fantastic post Doggo.

Dropping Presti has been raised a number of times by Collingwood supporters. I hope we don't do it.

I still think Presti should stand at Full Back and take whoever stands there. Whether it be Miller or Johnson or Martin etc.

If Rocca is not back, I wouldn't even mind us switching Nathan Brown up forward to provide a target. We did this with effect against Carlton last year where he kicked 2 early goals. That would allow us to bring another runner into the side.

Dave, do u think Presti will go to Bate if he lines up at FF? I know Bate was shocking last week and many here have been lamenting his lack of pace and poor ground level ability, but i think he is capable of more than what he showed against the Roo's and may possibly be too mobile a matchup for Presti- leading him up the ground out of the 'danger zone' where Presti is so effective at 'killing the ball', and making space for the other forwards behind him. Bate may not have sheer pace, but he is a hard worker who will make many long, repeated leads. He'll definitely be looking to improve his output and will be hungry to make amends for last weeks effort. And most likely will start in the goal square.

Nathan Brown at FF isn't a bad option at all. I rate him highly and think he will be more of a handful to contain than Rocca coming back from a long lay-off (despite kicking 6 in the VFL last week..). Could be very dangerous up front.

Thoughts?

It's late. I've just finished doing an assignment for uni due tomorrow and my brain is still in manic hyper-overload! No chance of getting any sleep right now so i've been inspired to have a stab at picking some teams and matchups for this weekend. So here goes.......

My teams and matchups for Round 2:

B: GARLAND WARNOCK RIVERS

F: Anthony Rocca Medhurst

HB: CHENEY FRAWLEY BARTRAM

HF: Didak Cloke Davis

C: BUCKLEY MOLONEY BRUCE

C: Thomas O'Bree Lockyer

HF: GREEN MILLER DAVEY

HB: Maxwell Brown Toovey

F: PETTERD BATE JETTA

B: Shaw O'Brien Clarke

FOL: JOHNSON McLEAN McDONALD

FOL: Fraser Swan Pendlebury

INT: SPENCER, JONES, MORTON, BENNELL

INT: Bryan, Johnson, Cox, Beams

COL- IN: Rocca, Shaw, Beams

OUT: Reid, Goldsack, Prestigiacomo

MEL- Unchanged

There's been a lot of talk on 'Land about changes for next week but having thought about it over the last day or so, i actually think Dean Bailey & co. will go with an unchanged lineup against Collingwood, barring any injury concerns. Sylvia may get lucky and possibly push Jamie Bennell out of the side, but Bennell hardly put a foot wrong in his debut. Not in his favour is the fact the 'Pies don't have the same plethora of slight, speedy small forwards as the 'Roos do, and Bennell may just get dropped due to lack of matchup (as well as needing to hit the gym), not to mention our obvious need for more marking targets in the forward line. Sylvia or Stefan Martin may be called upon in that instance, although Martin should probably spend some time learning to play forward at Casey before being tried in that position at AFL level. Newton may also be an outside chance, although his form has been patchy at best.

FORWARD

Looking over the two teams, one of the first things i notice is that Prestigiacomo doesn't have an immediate match up. For this reason I believe he may be dropped, purely on a 'horses for courses' basis. Maxwell might have been playing midfield so far this year, but he is a very accomplished backman and, IMO, he's a perfect matchup for any one of Melbourne's mid-sized marking forwards in Green, Petterd or Bate. Presti' would probably only be a suitable matchup for Miller playing deep, or possibly Bate, but is at risk of being led far out of his defensive 50 and exposed for agility further up the ground. Paul Johnson is the other match-up that would suit him, but expect PJ to spend more time in the ruck and less forward, as he did against the Roos. Unless Newton plays (which is highly unlikely), there is no-one for Prestigiacomo to play on.

Despite Bate's shocker last week at FF, he should be given the next few weeks to settle into FF before a change is made. He has, after all, been training for that position all preseason. Miller will be used in his lead-up CHF role and Nathan Brown seems the logical matchup for him at CHB. I think Maxwell will start on one of Green or Petterd. We've all seen what Green is capable of as a forward and Petterd showed last week he looks very natural and comfortable up front, as well as being a deceptively strong mark for his size. Reminded me a lot of an early Russell Robertson-- the wobbly tumble punt set shot, then the magnificent checkside goal on the run, the big leap, courage and complete disregard for his own safety in marking contests-- just screamed young Robbo to me! Shaw is the likely matchup for the other of these two.

I've gone with dave86's suggestion that Toovey start on Davey, and picked Marty Clarke to try and rebound off Jetta.

As has been the case for the last two years, Melbourne will struggle in the forward line due to a lack of strong key targets. Unless one (or all) of Bate, Miller, Green or Petterd can present strongly and score multiple goals, Melbourne might be competitive around the ground but will struggle to kick a winning score. Aaron Davey is another who desperately needs to be applying more scoreboard pressure.

MIDFIELD

In the midfield McLean and Swan to go head to head, as will O'Bree and Moloney. I doubt there will be any really hard tags put on, especially not by the 'Pies who will be thinking 'all-out attack'. However, if Swan or Pendlebury start firing expect Bartram (or McDonald) to man either up, with Cheney to swap over to Davis and Bruce to Didak down back. Johnson will want to make amends for his poor efforts on McIntosh last week, despite his improved ruck work. More will be needed of him around the ground against Fraser, although expect him to win his fair share of ruck contests. McIntosh is probably the more accomplished tap ruckman out of him and Frasier and PJ more than broke even in ruck contests last week (although was particularly poor accountability wise). He will need to be wary of Frasier running forward of the ball to provide another marking option up forward. Spencer and Johnson should both have the measure of Chris Bryan when Fraser is off the ground or resting up forward.

Despite breaking even in the clearances and contested ball, Melbourne's midfield looked pedestrian at times against the Roo's. Buckley, Davey and Morton all need to step up from last week, as their run and carry will be a very important factor if Melbourne are to challenge.

BACKLINE

In the backline Garland should get first crack at Anthony, Warnock to go to Rocca and Frawley to Cloke. Each of those key matchups seems the most logical physically and in terms of style of play. Garland will have the speed and reach to go with the strong-leading Anthony, Warnock the strength to compete one-on-one with Rocca, and Frawley the athleticism and overhead ability to man Cloke as a high forward. Rivers will play his customary 'quarterback' role helping out the other talls, most likely lining up on Medhurst and zoning off where possible. I'd give Cheney first crack at playing on Didak, with Bruce and Garland as Plan B & C should Cheney fail, as Didak is capable of really causing us some damage both at ground level and in the air. I like Bartram to do a hard-tag on the lively Leon Davis as he did on Harvey last week in defence and up the ground.

The backline were great against the 'Roos and expect them to give their all again. The 'Pies have some dangerous small-mid forwards who are good marks for their size, in Medhurst, Davis and Didak, as well as Thomas who spends some time in there. All will need to be played very tightly. Bennell may be called upon to man a Davis or Didak, although i fear his lack of body strength may be easily exposed against stronger opponents than North's mosquito fleet.

Melbourne's disciplined young defensive group is coming along in leaps and bounds and if the midfield give a good account of themselves, the key posts should be solid enough to be able to keep the Demons competitive.

RESULT

I love my Demons as much as anyone here on Demonland, and nothing is more pleasing than to see them bury the Magpies as rank-outsiders. But the reality of the situation is Collingwood are a side who should be legitimately pushing for a top 4 position come September, whereas the Dee's will most likely be occupying a place towards the bottom of the table. Without strong marking targets up forward, I fail to see how Melbourne will be able to kick a winning score. Much like last week, the Dee's will be competitive for the majority of the game, but in the end will lack to firepower to put the Pies away as our young kids run out of steam.

As much as i hate to say it, Collingwood by 25 points.

EDIT: This took me an hour to write. Now i'm really tired! Time for bed...

That's a great read. Heaps better than the fluff you get from the AFL website. Thanks dave86.

ins Newton Sylvia

Outs raffle between Bruce, Miller, Bate and Johnson yes i agree with that man

Absolutely NO chance Johnson will be dropped. I'd bet every $ i had on that.

Fancy giving Spencer lone-ruck duties in his 2nd game, or even worse... playing Meesen!!!! Ha!

OUT: Frawley

Frawley? I thought he was very impressive. Probably his career-best game to date.

For mine:

IN: Martin, Sylvia

OUT: Bennell, Bartram/Buckley

Would love to see Maric come in, but he sat out all of the last qtr for the Scorps and probably isn't ready for 4 qtrs at AFL level yet. I feel they'll give him another run there before coming back to the big time.

I'd probably drop Miller after his performance today, but doubt he will get the chop. Same goes for Bate and Davey. Unfortunately we don't have the depth or quality to cover these players on our list. But i think one of Bartram, Buckley or possibly even Morton may be unlucky next week.

Buckley's Achilles heel is his disposal and it was shocking today. What good is it when you can break the lines, but then give it up straight after.

He turned the ball over just once today. Check the stats. Just one clanger and a disposal efficiency of 87%.

Agree it has been a huge weakness for him in the past, but today it wasn't an issue. The issue, as McLean4Brownlow has pointed out, was him being played out of position and subsequently being beaten there.

Spencer - good in hitouts

Spencer got mauled in the hitouts!

I like the kid and think he shows a lot of promise as a tap ruckman for the future, but i thought his ruckwork was disappointing today. PJ didnt have the best game, but he looked more comfortable in the centre bounces than young Spenny for mine. I think Spencer may have been just a bit overawed by the experience of his debut.

Will only get better, but he'll defiinitely want to improve on that performance next week.

Sorry to all the Buckley fans out there, but he was shocking today. He just cannot dispose of the ball. He was torn apart by Wells in the last quarter. He couldn't keep up on the lead, he didn't show much pace at any time, and he missed multiple targets (though he certainly wasn't the only one). He just doesn't strike me as being a bright prospect for the future.

Agree that he wasn't too good in defence today, but I actually didn't think his disposal was too bad. I thought his kicking and decision making actually improved on last year, and according to the afl website, he had 15 disposals @ 87% efficiency- in the top 3 for us for the day.

Jetta to me was disappointing, poor disposal, misread the flight of the ball on numerous occasions and could be the slowest indigenous player I have seen

I disagree. Yes he did make some poor skill errors and misjudged the flight a couple of times, but his liveliness and willingness to compete for and win the hard ball was very encouraging for a 1st gamer. His errors to me were more due to inexperience and getting used to the pace of AFL rather than lack of skill.

And i didn't think he looked slow at all. Maybe not as quick as a Davey or Wells (who is?), but definitely not slow.

There's a lot to like about the 4 debutants we played today.

Bennell had a tidy debut, but for mine, doesn't look physically ready for AFL footy. He was a boy amongst men today and there were a few times he used his pace well to make good position, but was simply moved off the ball too easily once in the contest.

Jake Spencer's game was a little bit dissappointing. Didn't play anywhere near as well as he had in earlier pre-season games, but will be much better off for the experience.

Kyle Cheney looked like a 5-year veteran out there with his poise and courage in the air. Looks like a real gem who could have a big year!

Neville Jetta was lively all day. That crumb shot at goal he had with his first kick that just missed was all class. Made a few mistakes but shows signs he'll be a very good player for many years.

Surely a joke?

Bartrams skills were again poor - He's a liability. Johnson failed misreably to follow McIntosh, who ended up with 3 crutial goals.

Bartram is Simon Godfrey reincarnated. Did a great job nulifying Harvey's influence, but gee his skills are shocking.

Thought PJ's ruckwork was pretty good today. Held his own and looked far more comfortable than Spencer in the guts. But yes, both his (and Spencer's) efforts in the last qtr to go with McIntosh when he pushed forward were pretty disappointing.

Just got home. Dissappointing last quarter but a promising effort with 4 debutants in.

My votes:

6. Moloney- Our best midfielder. Did all the hard things, won plenty of clearances and generally used it well.

5. Cheney- Classy, courageous and poised down back. Could be in line for a rising star nomination!

4. Petterd- Was really our only dangerous target all day.

3. Jetta- Great start for the lively little forward. Will play a lot of footy this year.

2. Warnock- Beat Hale hands down. Very strong effort.

1. Jones- Worked tirelessly and improved his disposal over summer.

Green, Frawley, McDonald unlucky.

Very dissappointed with the output from McLean and Davey, and to a lesser extent, Morton.

Bugger!!! :angry:

Grimesy has arguably been the most impressive of our youngsters so far this PS and was looking primed for a huge year. Here's hoping he doesn't miss too much footy. It might stuff a few ppl's rising star bet's up just a little...

Wouldn't mind a report on Jurrah from anyone attending.

Same! Spewing i can't make it down to the game... Bring on LJ the excitement machine!!!!

And PLEASE GOD let Rivers and PJ make it thru unscathed!

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsart...95/default.aspx

Great article! Here's hoping he can get thru all 22 games this year and really cement himself as a quality AFL player for years to come.

As is well known on here, PJ's one of my favorites, and despite his limitations, which he has worked extermely hard on improving, one thing that can never be questioned about the skillful big man is his determination, heart, and passion for the club. All the talk so far this preseason has been of Spencer coming in and taking over the #1 ruck spot in Jamar's absence, but i believe MJ's injury presents PJ with the biggest opportunity of his career - taking the field as the most senior ruckman for us for the first time. For all the promise big Spence shows, he's still really young and raw, and PJ will rightly start round 1 as our #1 ruckman. Hope he shines... B)

If i remember correctly, he was one of the real shining lights in our Round 1 NAB Cup clash against Geelong last year. From what i saw of him then, he looked very impressive rebounding off halfback and also in the air. Was Rivers-like in his reading of the play. Likes to float across packs and mark. Too short to be a true KPP but maybe still growing, he's probably more likely to be a Paul Wheatley-type tallish running defender, but much better than Wheaters overhead. Still very young, but if he can get his body right, could really be anything. It's a shame his pre-season has been so injury riddled, as i'm really looking forward to seeing how he turns out.

Has been suggested that he would probably have been a 1st rounder this year had he not been picked up in last years draft.

Could Jurrah be a chance to play a half or so this week? Apparently is training very well, and 'lit up the track' last week...

There's absolutely no way Maric will play round 1 given the lack of games and preparation he's had in the pre season thus far. I wouldn't be expecting him to start challenging for a spot until Round 3 onwards, at the earliest.

I'd probably be in a coma by the time October came around... Maybe with a stint in rehab shortly after...

Wona would be a definite...

Maric (if fit and training ok)? And the rookies (Healey, McKenzie, Zomer..) perhaps?