Doggo

Doggo, I quite literally can put no weight on my left foot. Work could be interesting... haha

Forget what i was saying about 'feeling not too bad' yesterday. I'm absolutely [censored] today. Spent a good 4 hours down at Harold Holt pool today in the spa and hydro pool trying to loosen up a bit. Had to bail on my basketball game tonight too.

I'm feeling your pain mate...

Thanks for today fella's, had a great time! Great game, especially in the that last quarter. We played with some real spirit and got a well deserved win.

I thought James (big fella at FF in the last qtr?) had a huge influence- those clutch goals basically won us the match.

How's everyone feeling? I'm actually not feeling too bad, which is a big surprise. Went straight down to St Kilda beach for a quick dip right after the match.

Tomorrow morning might be a different story, but the joy of beating a Carlton side is more than worth it

Spoke to my mate Matt - he's a confirmed non-starter (slack [censored]). But i'm still definitely in.

Can't wait. Seeya all then...

Hey guys, as Rollo has already stated, i'll be there! My mate Matt is still TBC though...

Sorry if this has already been mentioned in the thread but, any confirmation on the venue yet?

Bring on TankingCarlton!!!

Dean Bailey was on the VFL web stream today at half time (from the Sandy game). The commentators asked him about Jeff White. He basically spelt out what we have all been talking about, saying that he is going to 'sit down with Jeff' at the end of the season and have a chat about where hes at (mindset and physically) and almost talked about him posthumously - saying Jeff has been a great servent of the MFC etc.....

Anything about the PJ injury?

Bad news about PJ- he's been a shining light in what's been a very bleak year, and also a well-known personal favourite of mine- but i think it's smart list management by the club to get him off to surgery now, and give himself a chance to be 100% right come pre-season, and firing come Round 1, rather than risk further injury through playing 3 remaining meaningless games this year.

He certainly does seem to have bad luck with injury playing against Geelong this year... <_<

As I have said, the players don't read your rubbishing comments so how does that help in the long run?

If, as you say, the players don't read the posts on our forums, then what is the problem? Stop being so sensitive about Bruce. If someone disagrees with you and thinks Bruce has a poor game, then that is their own choice- let it go! How does having a go at everyone who doesn't agree with your Bruce-bias help in the long run?

Can't we, the supporters, objectively view and discuss the performance of our players, then voice our own opinions of their games? Last time i checked, thats what a Footy Message Board/Forum is intended for.

Obviously 'rubbishing comments' are not the same as objective criticism. But, just reading thru the above posts from the so-called Bruce-bashers, i'm having trouble seeing where anyone 'rubbished' him?

We have the Didak thread... Here's the Shaw thread (Not Rhys though, i wouldnt want him at Melbourne).

If Heath Shaw were to be put up for trade by Collingwood at the end of the year, would u want him at Melbourne? If so, what price would u be happy to pay for him?

He is only 22, and has played 71 games, with the best part of a decade left in his career. Fits our youth policy, and prior to this, has had a pretty good off-field record. Like Didak however, he does not fill any of our key needs, and recent controversy has certainly tainted his reputation and value.

Collingwood in all honesty, because of his age and potential, will prob want to keep him, but if he were to go... They would ideally like a 1st round pick for him. From us, they'd probably want one of our 2nd rounders, pick 17 or 18 + a player, in a straight swap. Too much IMO. I'd be happy to part ways with pick 18 + a player (Bell/Bartram perhaps?), for Heath Shaw and their 3rd round pick (roughly pick 35-40 probably) at the absolute most.

IMO he is an upgrade on what we have at the moment in our small defender stocks (a lot better than Bartram/Bell/CJ, and much younger than Whelan), and could really be a good player, even a champion, in the furture.

Thoughts?

No. We already have Wonna, Sylvia, Robbo who play small forward. He's overrated and only considering to be such a great player because he plays for the magpies.

I hate Collingwood as much as the next football supporter, but IMO Didak is one player they have that does deserve the credit he receives for his on-field performance.

He's a gun player- yes, he's also a complete fool and scum favourite, but i don't doubt his quality as a footballer.

Having said that, i'd say probably 'no'. Too old, culture sore. The only thing that stops me from completely ruling him out would be price: if we were able to get him to the club for say, a 3rd round pick (which is what the Bulldogs gave up for Aker?), i wouldn't be too unhappy to see him in red and blue.

We want KPFs or pacey players who are young.

Do Shaw and Didak fit the mould?

No, not neccesarily.

But they are both very accomplished, quality players, who might just benefit from 'being knocked off their perch', so to speak, by a change of scenary playing at one of the lower, more cash-strapped Melbourne-based clubs.

And i can't stress enough the 'bargain price' element to getting them- they are tainted by poor off-field behaviour, especially Didak, and have been publicly named as liars. IMO it's likely they will not go for what they are really worth in terms of their playing value. Gun player or not, a culture-sore is still a culture-sore, and teams negotiating with Collingwood come trade time will be stressing this point. Collingwood may not want to let either player go, but if they do, it will be for less than they want, i guarantee it.

Didak is 25, so probably too old, although would fill that 24-27 year age-gap void on our list, and despite him being an arrogant p*ick and a scum favourite, he's actually a very good player who i rate very highly. If we could get him for cheaper than what he is worth, then i'd be all for it. Based solely on what he does on the field, would definitely be worth mid-late 1st-rounder, but because of his history of misdemeanour, would more likely be traded for 2nd rounder + a player maybe.

Heath Shaw is only about 22 or so, and has shown a fair bit in his short career to date. He's still young enough to be considered 'young' in terms of development, and has arguably shown more than any of the 22-year-olds on our list, bar maybe McLean. He's been in indifferent form of late, but at his best is a very good player.

Herald Sun Player Ranking Points from last Saturday

Jamar 84

P.Johnson 83

Hille 63

Laycock 23

Johnson scored over 100 ranking points last week as well from memory.

What is Jamar's age? 23?

He turns 25 on Saturday.

FWIW, PJ just turned 24 and Meesen 22, both had their birthdays in June.

Freo's Robbie Warnock is 21, turning 22 in January next year.

i would be devestated if we lost jamar

Welcome to Demonland... great start!

The Pies might now be trying to offload Shaw and/or Didak given they've just released a new press release on 'On The Couch' stating that

Didak was in the car with Shaw, and both of them lied about his presence to the club and police.. Todays sanctions have been thrown out, and new ones applied tomorrow,

and yet another no doubt fiery press conference from the Lexus Centre which should make for compulsive listening!

Hmmm..... very interesting times ahead.

Despite all the recent happenings re: Shaw, and Didak's shady history off-field, both are guns, and i'd love to have either/both of them at Melbourne. Especially if we can get em for a bargain-basement price given their indiscretions.

Collingwood is keen to trade - according to one of the poster's. J.Fraser struggling.

Would we want Josh Fraser at Melbourne? Personally i wouldn't want him.

He's too old (27?) for our current youth policy and would command a higher pick than we'd be willing to pay being a former #1 draft pick (?). Awfully overrated IMO, he was very very lucky to play the All-Star's match this year. He's not hard enough at the contest, injury-prone, is pretty lean for a big man and given his body-type and age, will always be, and isnt good enough in a KP to play there full-time. Almost a clone of Jeff White, but without the ruck skills and leap White once had.

I would prefer to see Garland take the best forward. Warnock's best games were on Roughhead and Kosi both the second best forward in their team. He's struggled on Brown, Hall and Lloyd. Garland is the better defender he should be getting the better opponent.

Warnock is stronger and more physically mature than Garland at this stage, hence he has been taking the bigger roles. Roughead and Kosi, as well as Bradshaw, may not be their respctive teams best forwards, but they are big bodies that Garland may not have been able to contain.

I don't think anyone doubts Garland will be the better of the two, but he's just not big enough to consistently compete with the bigger-bodied forwards of the comp just yet.

What would Jamar be worth given Jolly got pick 15? Based on Saturdays game i would say 18 - 25 in this draft picks are gold draft. Jamar is just startiung to reach his potential and we should play hard ball. May be a three way deal D's - cARL - eSS.

Anything between pick 18-25 would be absolutely awesome for Jamar, but realistically i can't see him getting us any better than pick 30, unless he continues his current purple patch til seasons end. Even then, a pick in the 30's or better, should we acquire Warnock via trade or PSD, would be a fantastic result for the club IMO.

I'd love to have Alwyn at the club, and i'd love to give Jamar to Carltank.

But i won't hold my breath just yet- unlike some, i find it really difficult to get into any of this stuff without at least some real substance (of which there never is!). I'll wait at least a few more weeks, and if the Alwyn rumour keeps circulating come seasons end, then i'll get right behind it!

Ps, I don't think Jamar will ever be a superstar, but I can imagine him being a Lade or Keating or Cloke snr, or such.

The superstar comment was 'tongue in cheek', though i understand your points.

I think Jamar still has a long way to go to reach Lade or Keating's heights, and in my honest opinion i don't think he'll ever be as good as either of those two. But i'm happy to wait and see, and as long as he's in a Melbourne jumper i'll support him. Having said that, he would be one of the first players i'd be looking to trade come seasons end, for whatever we could get. Especially should R.Warnock come to the club.

The Russian's doing his trade value no harm at the moment and ruckman traditionally demand a reasonably high price.

Good on him. I've met the guy, and he's a top bloke who i know has always bled for the club. Its nice to know he, and the other unnamed senior players, have taken it upon themselves to help out the club in this crisis time.

It's good leadership IMO.

I thought Warnock only moved onto Lloyd after he'd kicked two - it looked like Martin was on him initially. I think Lloyd took a mark in or around the 50 when opposed to Garland, although I can't remember if this resulted in a shot.

Lloyd was also given a goal by Sylvia, and plucked one off the back of a pack in the square that would have been tough for anyone to stop...let alone the MOTY grab and goal.

As others have mentioned, we're happy to talk about how great our forwards were when they have a good day, but when opposition forwards have a great day it's the fault of our defenders.

Correct.

Just watched a replay on a mates Foxtel IQ, you're spot on Rogue.

Lloyd kicked the 1st two goals of the game on Martin, before Warnock was shifted to him. Lloyd then took a good mark on the lead and converted opposed to Garland, whilst Warnock was having a spell on the bench.

After that i'm pretty sure Lloyd's last 5 goals were on Warnock- but as u said, gifted 2 goals, and MOTY for another one.

So in essence, Matty Warnock didn't really have a that bad a day, only really conceding 2 'stoppable' goals on Lloyd in unstoppable form. And even those stoppable ones were hardly his fault.

I thought he was the best option we had for Lloyd and easily performed best out of the 3 we had tried, and will only learn and get better for the experience.

Doggo, your very stubborn mate, I think I remember you from the dees - saints supporters games & I don't remember seeing you watching sandy games much.

I've seen the best of jamar including his purple patches with kicking & his poor performances, & he can do nearly all of it when it comes out of him instinctively, when he doesn't overthink the situation. When people who lack self belief have too much time to think, the self doubt can cause mistakes. He needs us to be supportive & cheer when he does well & to say, c,mon mate when he lacks effort.

Games of experience & good ol' cheering for his good stuff will help him enormously. But we do need to keep him on his toes.

Haha thanks, people say that to me all the time..

It has been a couple of years since i've headed down to watch Sandy play (i used to live nearby but now am around an hours drive away from TBO), but from what i've seen, heard and read about MJ, at that level he has always been very good. His form in the VFL has never been the issue.

Whether or not he has the ability and self-belief to mentally adapt to playing against the best, as you mentioned, as well as IMO his questionable kicking action and physical limitations, have always been more of the problem. This year he's gone a long way towards rectifying a lot of his flaws, but IMO he still isn't there yet. Harsh maybe, but in even his best games at AFL level, i've yet to see anything that tells me his decision making will one day be consistently of an AFL standard.

I cheer big Jamar on every week, as i do each every player wearing a red and blue jumper, and have been really pleased with his form recently. But a few good weeks doesn't make a career, and at this stage i'm still a skeptic.

Hopefully, one day in the near future, when Jamar is a superstar, we can dig this post and up and u can all say 'told u so' and i'll eat my humble pie... But don't count on it. He's far from proven at AFL level IMO.

He's hardly alone in the poor skills department Doggo. Jamar is one of many on the list whose development was hindered rather than helped under Daniher. He has shown plenty of improvement this year and so have the others (Miller, PJ, CJ, Warnock, etc). He's still reasonably young for a ruckman. If he can keep improving, disposal being an obvious area he needs to work on, I think he could end up a pretty good ruck.

True, but he really is in a league of his own in the wider football community, basically as the player with the worst kick, at the worst kicking club.

Anyhow, all good points, however i'm not going to be so easily sold on Jamar.

I do recognize his improvement, and find that every week he does at least one thing to make me think he might just turn it all around. His ruckwork is excellent, and his use of his body has improved too. He's also running harder and covering more ground than ever before (although still needs to run harder more consistently IMO).

However, for every good thing he does, he seems to do something just as poorly (although a lot less in recent times).

And at this stage, given his best has only just been "good", his worst is as bad as it gets, and after 6 seasons in the system- he's gonna have to do some real amazing things to make me change my opinion of him.

Recent form isn't going to 'rose-tint' my glasses just yet...

Buckley must be a chance to snare one soon as well.

I hope so.

He deserves one soon too you'd think. Averaging around 20 disposals and having the flair and confidence to run as boldly as he does in his second year isnt bad, surely he deserves one before the yer is out.

Like Cale, his kicking and decision making might need a bit of work, but they both find the ball so easily and gee, the boy Bucks can really run.

If we can get all 3 of Aussie, Cale and Garland, and maybe Bucks too, in the top 10 of the rising star comp this year, you've gotta be pretty happy with that as a Melbourne supporter!

I'll vomit in my mouth and hope i choke on it if we pick up Laycock. lol

From a post i wrote last week... i still totally stand by my stance of JL *cough*hack*cough*.. Yesterday only made it all the more clear for me.