iv'a worn smith

It's posts like P-Man's that bring me back to this forum. Well said mate and I share your sentiments. While obviously I did not know him, I will raise a glass on Saturday night and toast your dad. Cheers mate.

My late father was born in Sydney and his father took him to Melbourne, after my grandmother died when Dad was only 16. My grandfather owned pubs; one in Melbourne and 2 in Ballarat. The one he owned on Melbourne, was the Prince Patrick hotel in Victoria Parade, Collingwood, which is where my dad lived. Living in that area, the friends he made told him he would have to follow an Aussie rules team - my father being a staunch Rabbitohs man from his days in Sydney. More than that, his mates said living in the area he did, he would have to choose between Collingwood, Carlton or Fitzroy. My dad was never one to run with the crowd, so he followed the team named after his adopted city - Melbourne. After Mum and Dad married, they moved to what was then considered the outer suburb of Ivanhoe. Ivanhoe, Heidelberg, Preston and surrounds were Collingwood strongholds and my 4 older brothers followed the Pies and still do. I am sure you can imagine the crap I cop from them these days. I stuck with dad and followed the Dees. He would take me to all the old suburban grounds and in those days, for a kid, it was often like going to another country. Of course, in the early days, the MFC were peerless and somehow I sensed, even though not fully aware as a child, that I was following a pretty special football club. In 1964, my dad managed to cadge a couple of final tickets to the GF from his local pub. They were only standing room, but as an 8 year old, the old blokes made sure that the kid was pushed to the front. Not that it mattered really, as I was more interested in collecting the old steel beer cans so I could stand on them. My father was a very conservative man and I never heard him swear before that day or after, but he did let out the magic word in front of me. It was at the time big Ray Gabelich fumbled and stumbled his way along the members side wing to eventually kick a very clumsy goal that put Collingwood in front, deep into the last quarter. The next thing I remember is being flat on my back. In his excitement, dad had jumped in the air and upon landing, knocked me over. Neil "Froggy" Crompton had put the Dees back in front and we won the 1964 flag - our last. Even though I was a young kid, the feeling of euphoria was amazing and to see my dad so ecstatic made me beam. From that point on, I knew I would be a Demon for life. The other thing I remember about going to the footy with dad, was his quirky sayings. Unlike today's communal shout of "BALLLLLLLL" it was the full cry of "HOLDING THE BLOODY BALL". If that went up in a crowd in relation to a Dees player, dad would retort, "HOLDING YOUR BLOODY GIRL". Names like Hassa Mann, Donny Williams, Brian (Doc) Roet, Wrecker Leahy, Johnny Townsend, Geoff Tunbridge, Barry Vagg and Ray Groom were in my scrapbook. The worst part about this story????? When my grandfather passed away, my dad was made executor of the Will. The first thing dad did? He sold the bloody pubs..........sheesh!!!!

And here's me thinking April Fool's day only falls on the first of the month.

RR, we seem to be in agreement, yet you take exception to the use of the term "knee jerk" You and I are on the same page. It is just I would prefer to use the word "accountability". It is not just what you do, it is how you do it as well. Hence my reference to "knee jerk".

Your points are valid and I would hate for some knee jerk reaction, simply to be seen to be doing something Having said that, there is an old fashioned term called "accountability" and that applies to any endeavour in life. Regardless of any extenuating circumstances, if you can't turn up to "play", at the start of a new season, given your previous season, something is wrong. If your best player, in a team which, by every KPI, was abysmal, is a first year player by the name of Jack Viney, then you have a serious and endemic problem. Regardless of who is at fault, all I want to know is who will be accountable? Who will stand up and say, to hell with the problem, let's just fix it and be part of the solution? Put simply, something is intrinsically wrong at this footy club. Who will stand up and be accountable? Today's football world will not wait and will be clinically brutal if you are a recidivist offender. That is just the reality. We ignore that reality at our own peril.

I could post this on any of the threads, which have begun since last Sunday's debacle. I certainly will not claim any high moral ground, I will not lay claim to knowing more than anyone else on here, I will not vent my spleen, which hurts as much as many other on here. I will not look for scapegoats and apportion blame in an effort to salve my wounds. Finding a plausible source to blame can make one feel better, even if it is just to say, "I told you so". Whatever anyone says on here, does not diminish the hurt any true Demons supporter would have felt after Sunday's travesty, which masqueraded as an AFL football team. I am into my 43rd year as a paid up member. I cherish that. I am hoping I can make 50 years as a paid member, if my club lasts that long, or maybe, more importantly, I remain on this mortal coil long enough. Since the demise of Daniher and on to Bailey, we have long debated, argued, berated and unfortunately, in some cases, abused fellow posters on here, for the theories proffered on the moribund nature of our footy club. It is and remains OUR footy club. Like others on here, I have seen some pretty lean times for this footy club, beginning - for me - in the late 60's, throughout the entire 70's and into the early 80's. Barassi came and was trumpeted as the "Messiah", We were in safe, tried, true and tested hands. A stalwart of the club, who had returned home with an impressive coaching CV. We were presented with a much vaunted 5 year plan, which, for much of its tenure seemed not to amount to much, but it is with the benefit of hindsight that we only saw the fruits of RDB's labour, after Swooper Northey took the helm. As good a motivator as Northey was, he inherited a bunch of kids, mixed in with some experience, that had a true passion for the game, their club and most importantly each other. Fast Forward to today. Footy is far different today, to what it was in Northey's time. It is increasingly more professional. competitive -both on and off the field - and the media glare is blindingly acute these days. But the old tenet of a belief and a passion for what you do remains as valid today, as it did then. Most of us on here - although our reasons and rationale may be different - have had to stomach ineptitude, lack of aggression at the footy, an absence of cohesion and what appears to be, a lack of belief (maybe trust) in each other. A clear recipe for football disaster. Frankly, I have grown tired of the constant debate about what or who is to blame for our current and now chronic malaise, so I will not even attempt to sheet home the blame to any past or present operative of the MFC. All I know is that there is something seriously wrong with my footy club. Watching Footy Classified last night, two things struck me. Garry Lyon, as a player, was a great servant of the Footy club. He was fiercely competitive and as a captain, would not tolerate anyone shirking the issue. He tried to help his great friend Jimmy Stynes, when big Jimma needed him, but steadfastly drew the line in the sand, when it came to a more formal and long term engagement with the footy club. Garry, I know you make a fair quid in the media and you are entitled to support your family to the best of your ability, but I sometimes I feel, for the sake of your media profile, headlines and ratings, you feign your "disgust" with Melbourne's current situation. Maybe - and I do not make any allegation here - you feel that through your various short term roles at the footy club, you might have actually been part of the problem. All I know is, if your passion is genuine, then we need someone like you, with your undeniable profile, to pitch in with a full commitment. The second thing that struck me last night and while she tread carefully on the "tanking" allegations, Caroline Wilson asked Garry the question as to whether he thought the apparent priority of forsaking all else to secure first round draft picks, over almost a decade, had actually worked in reverse and negatively impacted the culture of the footy club. The graphic which was shown on the show, of Melbourne's first round draft picks since 2003, beginning with Sylvia and McLean was nothing short of an indictment on this footy club. I found myself nodding in agreement to what Wilson had put to Garry. Paul Roos has a similar train of thought, which he has spoken about several times. The other thing raised on AFL 360 by Gerard Whately is the lack of presence in the media of Cameron Schwab. This is particularly so since the "tanking" investigation debacle. All I know is, my footy club appears to withering on the vine. I want survival and beyond and I will continue to aspire to meet 50 years of paid up membership, but the MFC has to realise sooner or later, that you can't keep dipping into the members well and asking for more. When you do so, there is an implicit contract that the Club enters into with its members. As tried, true and committed members, of course we will remain loyal to the "Team We Love", but as with any committed relationship, it should be a two way street. Memo to Don McLardy: Don, you took on the mantle left by Jimmy and did it manfully. However, Members can no longer be expected to accept platitudes and "pollie" speak. We need action and we need it now. Please Don, speak to us.

Well said WJ. If Liam can get through this, I would also take him back, providing someone with higher picks doesn't get him first.

Apportioning blame is not what is at issue here. May be worth remembering Liam was cleared of the more serious charge. As for drink driving, he won't be the first, nor, unfortunately, will he be the last AFL/ex-AFL footballer to go down this rocky road. Let's stay relevant shall we?

Sorry, but that is just ignorant and should be removed. On another note, our Welfare person has been with Liam for much of the time in the Alice. Make of that what you will.

Sorry I haven't posted sooner, but after Saturday, I was flat out with work. Some observations. i ventured out to Casey on Saturday, which is the first time for me for over 2 years. Initial impressions were that, the facilities at Casey have come along in leaps and bounds and there was a reasonable crowd there given it was ostensibly a VFL practice match. From what I saw, Craig, Neeld, Misson and Viney snr were in attendance, with Grimes, Spencer and Tappy also there. Maybe a few others upstairs, but I could not see clearly. McLardy, Howcroft and Schwabby also there. As others on here have said, Mitch, Jack T and Blease were well short of a gallop. Blease was good in patches, but needs to build his engine. Jack T did a couple of nice things early, but barely got a touch after that. Out of that trio and while clearly he lacks a considerable amount of match conditioning, Mitch impressed me the most. His timing was out, but he had a red hot go and was prepared to put his body on the line. There was a collective gasp when Mitch flew for one in the forward line and fell backwards. Not sure how a line coach can do it, but someone should look at his technique, as it is fraught with danger. Maybe Howe should have a word and work with him on the jumping bags. I have to make special mention on Jack V. I am rapt with his attitude. In and under, hard at it and as others have mentioned, unlike his old man, he can kick the footy and find targets. He came in for particular attention from several Port players and gave as good as he got and some. As for the others, Jordie Mc is all heart, he never gives up, always looking to lay a tackle and never stops talking to his team mates. But he has to be like that as he lacks the skills to be a true A-Grader. I suspect with more class around him, he will continue to shine. I was rapt with Taggert. He has certainly bulked up and has a red hot go. Again, I reckon with his attitude and with the right players around him, he can progress to a useful utility. My major disappointment was Fitzpatrick. He appears so laconic to the point of being disinterested. Although he copped a whack in the eye - and I later heard the physio say he had concussion, he now has a size about him he should use, but it is he who gets monstored by the opposition. Lastly, it was interesting to note that Misson was directing most of the rotations. From that perspective and for those who are thinking of getting the razor blades out due to the result, it was clear from behind the coaches box, that this game was nothing more than a vehicle for getting some yards into the legs of the MFC players considered to be underdone. There was never any concern shown about the scoreboard. Add to that, Port are a very well drilled unit with older bodies in the main. The core of Casey's VFL list, if what we saw on Saturday is to be any indication, lacks height and body size and appears to be particularly young. The other thing to consider, which may rate a thread on its own, is that while Port is not an AFL seconds side, they stand alone and therefore do as they please in terms of recruiting and team structures. While in reverse, clearly they show the benefit of a long tradition of achievement, standing and playing, without restrictions. I reckon, in the not too distant future, all AFL clubs based in Melbourne will have to bite the bullet and consider reverting back to having "reserve" sides.

Thanks guys

Thanks 3 for letting us know. I will certainly be tuning in.

If nothing else, the one thing Jimmy did have at the beginning was "endurance". In fact he was renowned for it back then and that is the prime reason we got him

Thank you MFC for a nice rememberance video of Jimmy. A time for reflection. We all miss you big Jimma.

HIrd and Croad's injury was a stress fracture of the navicular. Similar to what Grimesy had. Another well known sufferer - well known because it ended his career, was Matthew Egan, formerly of Geelong. However, the treatment of such injuries has come a long way since Hird and Egan sustained their injuries.

As they say, comparisons are often odious. While I have very fond memories of the Northey era, they were different times to current days. The game, as it is played now, is completely different to Northey's time. Swooper used a very basic philosophy of us against them, mixed in with a bit of fire and brimstone. It is ludicrous to compare the situation that confronts Neeld currently, to the 'good ole days' of Swooper. Neeld remains the man in my view. The players' attitudes have already changed compared to the days of DB. As much as it pains us, we have stay the course and be patient.

The worst part about all of this, is whatever way you look at it, we are now tainted and there is a very bad smell about how it was done. While we can't quantify it or define how, there will be a negative affect at some point. The only consolation I take from all of this is that the stench surrounding the executive of the AFL is far worse and brings the whole AFL system into question, due to a clear lack of due diligence and professionalism.

Hardly a relevant comparison. The facts as they stand are that, none of the executive or the board were found culpable in relation to bringing the game into disrepute, that Dean Bailey coached to the best of his ability on game day. The finding, if distilled, comes down to a supposed directive, given by Chris Connolly, in what the AFL claim to be an earnest manner and thereby, DB felt pressure. Simply put, the findings contradict themselves. Whether people on here like them or not, 2 peoples' careers have been destroyed and I would respectfully suggest, such a punishment is not commensurate with the "crime". Unlike your McDonalds food poisoning analogy, the only people to suffer here are DB and CC. This is no more than a face saving exercise by the AFL, for which the end result was manufactured. [edited for typos]

Apparently DB, according to McLachlan, always coached to the best of his ability on match day, yet he was so susceptible to CC, he did things under "pressure". Sorry, this does not make sense to any reasonably minded person. This is a "negotiated" outcome, in an effort to save face for the AFL. No AD present.

No, you can rest players, that is OK. You can even play them out of position to "experiment". You just can't do it to secure a draft pick. What a crock. CC has been made the fall guy in all of this.

We have accepted the fine. Question. How do we get fined for "employing" someone? This is a Kangaroo Court. I feel very sorry for CC, but in particular Dean Bailey. This has been constructed to suit.

BH, I must say, while for us long suffering supporters, this is clearly and understandably an emotive issue, you have been the most antagonist, intransigent and confrontational on here. If you don't like the retorts to your posts, just walk away. Would be best for all concerned that you do on this issue.

In any Administrative process the rules of Administrative Law apply. To some extent, we are all bound by such a legislative framework. Any body corporate, which includes the AFL, is bound by such a framework. No organisation, including the AFL, can flaunt the rule of Law or ignore it, simply to suit their own agenda. That is why we do have Tribunals and Courts. While understandably, many on here do not want to engage in litigation, such sentiments do not diminish the legitimacy of the Law. While we may not want to enter into the costly and adversarial world of the Courts, the relevant inquisitorial Tribunal may be an option open to us, which is far less costly.

My view would be on what legal basis, would you prosecute such a case?

No