still don't get it for carlton (apart from fitzpatrick connection). you need more than one club's supporters for ratings and who wants to watch a wooden-spoon favourite lose one sided games
if you are going to quote greek philosophers, nut, don't forget the skeptics like pyrrho, timon, arceesilaus, carneades, aensidemus and especially sextus
we weren't talking about science but scientists
scientists are only human and have the same faults, frailties, egos, ambitions and lusts as everyone else. but your faith trust in them is touching nevertheless.