Vipercrunch

I saw replay of our Round 4 win against Carlton on Foxfooty on the weekend and he was well of the form he showed as the year stretched on. This year he will be good to go right from Round 1 with the way his preseason is tracking. Will be a good year for him.

I hope someone picks up Caleb, more than happy for it to be us. He was a highlight in the one underage game I saw this year. Got the ball a awful lot and was very creative and hardly missed a target.

Would love to see what he can do in the AFL.

I don't share the expectation that we will land a high quality midfielder each year at trade time. We got lucky last year with Tyson, but young, high quality mids don't move around that often and when they do, are we realistically any more likely than any of the other clubs to land them?

If we can somehow lure and make a deal work that lands a high quality player once every few years or so, I think that is all we can hope to expect. I am sure we have plenty of cracks at quality players, but very few of those inquiries will result in a completed trade.

The rest of the time, we need to improve the list small increments at a time via deals such as we completed for Garlett or by making the most of what we have left at draft time.

A very high percentage of players that are going to have long and successful careers would be regular senior players by their second year, so even if they do leave after 8 years, a team can get 7 years of good football out of them.

Teams (ours especially) need to nail their top 50 picks AND develop them into AFL players better.

Would love some examples of good AFL players (from any team) that took 4 years of nurturing before they became any good. Examples from the last 10 years especially.

Perhaps the industry needs to become harsher (and possibly more realistic) in how it views 3rd and 4th year players. Unless they have been very unlucky with injuries or have been kept out of the seniors by other, very good players maybe they are just not AFL standard?

I agree OD. As far other clubs are concerned (and probably the reality of any sporting competition), there will always be a club, or perhaps several clubs that are well off the standard. As long as its not them, they're happy and see no reason to give the strugglers a hand out. Other clubs will see the necessity of an 18 team competition, but to consider that the existence of the MFC depends on the granting of a PP is to be grossly overstating the situation.

If St Kilda nab him, we'll take the player most people currently think will go No. 1. I'm sure we'll find use of him on our list.

Despite an extremely disappointing August, I saw improvement in the basics before that. I was hoping and expecting 6+ wins, so 4 was below my expectation. Despite the wins against unexpected opponents being refreshing, it was the very poor displays against teams we should have been closer to that stood out for me.

The loss to GWS was a worse performance than 186 for me, so that still burns.

D

I put very little value in what a single PP can do for us. Upgrading 1/44th (or however many is on a list these days) of our list from a pick very late in the draft to an early pick is not going to swing our rise or fall one way or the other. I think we all know by now our problems run far deeper than that.

HOWEVER, given that a PP rule does exist, how on earth can we not qualify? Any club that slips into the depths we have is going to be greatly responsible themselves for getting there. Of course we stuffed lots and lots of things up. If we are refused, then it can only mean the reasons for such long term failure have to be largely external. Perhaps if half a list is wiped out by the Ebola virus, maybe then the AFL would grant a PP?

If we are refused, then I hope the AFL also scraps the rule altogether. They have the powers to assist in times of tragedy (like when Troy Broadbridge passed away).

Has probably been the highlight of the year for me. I always enjoy players that have done it the hard way really finding their feet. Rarely gets beaten one on one. Hits his targets and has regularly shown a lot of courage where he puts his body. As said above, I hope it's infectious.

I've never suggested something like this before but it surely must be time to shut this one down. Both sides have had ample opportunity to have their say and Fossil's comments above show that there is still very little understanding between the two camps.

Frawley may have made up his mind already but unless he deliberately makes that decision public, I doubt any coach would drop him based on rumours, however strong they are. In other words, just because Frawley is still playing seniors isn't evidence either way that he has made up his mind, just that he hasn't made a decision public.

For what it's worth, I think he is leaving. He played the "I want to see the clubs direction" card. I think we have all seen the clubs direction and he still hasn't signed on. When it goes on this long, Cloke aside, it seems to end up with the player leaving.

I think the AFL is heading towards the NRL model of announcing player movement during the season. Hard to know how it will work out for the AFL, but I think everyone is getting sick of the rumours and questions that hang around for so long.

Maybe - the broadcasters still get the same amount of broadcast games overall. Total viewer numbers is what they want and if numbers show the season lost momentum with the split rounds, I'm sure they would be keen on a better solution whatever that is.

The split opening round worked horribly as far as getting the season off with any real momentum. Ground availability played a part in that but the AFL is on the record saying it really flopped as far as getting things of to a flying start.

I don't mind the byes but hate the split rounds.

I would much prefer a total break from the AFL for a weekend and play and highlight the under 18 national champs. Really bring it to the fore.

Maybe if a second bye is needed, give the EJ Whitten game a total makeover and try and make some serious money for those charities. This years money raised was a pitiful joke apparently. A couple of State of Origin games of ex players, celebs and others, televised telethons, whatever to maximise the return for cancer charities.

Crap ideas maybe, but I just can't cop those split rounds.

We are well placed to cherry pick more players from GWS and Gold Coast of similar calibre to Tyson I reckon. We have Roos and Co, a young list and the go home factor in our favour as well as showing that we are willing to trade.

There will be other teams we look at of course but those two will struggle to accommodate all their early picks and GWS in particular seem to want to continuing getting their hands on early picks.

Was rapt to hear the news this morning and happy that Jack was there to share it ( although would prefer he was fit and still playing for us).

I am in total awe of all marathon runners. I've been trying to improve my running since the start of the year and my pace per km over 5 km is still about half as slow as the pace they hold for 42 km. If I was to run alongside them, I reckon I could manage that pace for maybe 200 metres. They are all simply amazing.

Macca...i hear you. My stance I suppose in regards to the areas you opine...off field etc . i still dont think any of that will be greatly affected.

Maybe if someone seriously targeted a meteoric climb up the ladder this year followed by Silver glory next then they are bound to be despondent but in all reality where we finished was anyones guess. where we're heading is I believe what many will base their faith upon. As such members will still be members , ex members in limbo may or may not rejoin but thats totally upon < i feel , where and the how of our progress going forward. I dont think said progress is necessarily linked to ladder position. many here can see the improvement but acknowledge its not shown as to our position on the ladder. I would think many a person can also see this..

Roos just made public his faith in the club ( I suspect its been there for a while..lol ) and so I would think no such impediment would exist for anyone coming to us for any reason; player, admin, FD or supporter

Macca I really dont think it matters....maybe just me

Not just you.

Final ladder position is irrelevant as long as we don't totally go AWOL over the last 5 weeks. The runs are on the board for prospective members, sponsors and recruits to see.

Steve Motlop is the type of player we have a big need for. JKH may fill the spot, but he would have to be good to be on par with Motlop.

Chase him or someone like him because we need to, not for revenge though.

Not in my mind. I don't care because I have seen enough improvement and competitiveness to realise we could have won more games with a little more talent and luck. Whether 16 or 18 or whatever, the position on the ladder is related to how many 'flukes' other bottom teams have pulled off etc.

If I was sure that a wooden spoon would somehow affect the club in the future, then I might be more concerned, but since I'm not sure of that, I don't really care. Some see that as a weak supporter/bad attitude/all that is wrong with the supporters, I see it as realism.

Spot on Sue.

Oh, please. It would mean soooo much if you would "engage" with me......

Great news. The spin I put on it is that Roosy has seen enough "buy in" from all to want to keep at it.

If we do keep losing and "win" the spoon, some of those same people who voted 1-3 will almost certainly lash out - you can't have it both ways - if you want the spoon, you want the team to lose.

So ... take the losses* (if they come) and don't moan about it. Actually, by rights, you should be quite annoyed if we win any of the last 5 games. Make sure you let us all know about your annoyance if that does happen.

Let's not beat around the bush here, saying "I don't care" effectively means that you don't want the team to win any more games - you're "happy" to lose. Pure and simple.

Tell your kids, tell all your friends, family and work colleagues that you don't care if Melbourne wins the spoon. Might make for a lively conversation so make sure you're ready

*In an ideal world, we win 4 of our last 5 games but realistically, that's a big ask - it's entirely possible though. Just imagine how we'd all feel if that were to happen? It would give us some real hope for the future.

What hope does winning another spoon give you? (18th from 18) ... a chance to wait 3-6 years to see if our draft pick is any good or not. Unless we trade that pick of course - but what are the chances of that happening? Besides, pick 3,4 or 5 could be a much better player than pick 1 anyway.

Be careful what you wish for.

There you go. I quoted the whole thing for you.

Aligning "not caring" to "wanting" is just ridiculous. The steps forward we have made this year will not suddenly disappear into thin air if we finish last. Players will still have learnt and improved. The FD structure will still have improved. The FD will not suddenly second guess itself about which players are worth keeping. The tangible areas in which we have improved, that all smart footy watchers have observed and noted will still be there. On top of that, win or lose, we still have a very long way to go. What happens in the next 5 weeks by us and the other clubs around us doesn't change that much. There will still be a lot of work to do.

I voted 3 because I don't like to see us lose BUT what's happens in the remaining 5 weeks of 2014 will have very little effect either way in our journey to becoming a better footy club. Roos and Co. will make whatever outcome a positive learning outcome for the players and club.

Jeez, the wool has been pulled over your eyes...

Do you think the Hawks or Pies were embarrassed to the point where they gave up their PPs a decade ago?

Nah, they used them well and won flags on the back of the talent they got.

Teams don't want us to have a PP because they want to keep their feet on our necks - it amazes me the level that our supporters care about what other supporters think of us - and here it is again in this thread.

Northey used to get the whole club in an "us vs them" lather and we need some more of that around here. Stop caring what your loser friends think of our club - they can GAGF.

We should do what is best for our club.

I don't care about where we finish down the bottom, I don't care about what picks we will get, I even am getting ambivalent about Frawley's decision - all I care about, as Robbiefrom13 said, is how we finish the season and then how we can build the list after the season.

All those PP's were awarded based on a formula. They didn't have put a case forward to the AFL that they are deserving of the PP. I didn't think we had a case last year, but could understand why the new FD and admin would have a crack. Our performance this year without Clarke and Hogan showed that the AFL was right (we are not the unwatchable basket case we once were). We have the people in place right now, on and off the field to keep this club moving up.

I don't give a flip about what other supporters say about the MFC. I just want a club that works hard and earns success like all the other clubs, not by getting PP's.

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph though.

what a masochist you are

if we deserve one on performance we should get one

we should have got one last year and the pathetic reasons given by the afl for not getting one have turned out to be wrong

have a look at the history of PPs over the last 10 years and there is no question we should get one

we should go for every competitive gain we can, other clubs aren't so reticent

as for your fear of ridicule from opposition supporters, htfu

The PP now (the rules have changed) is something that is for teams that are miles behind everyone else. The AFL made the right choice given our performances this year.

I don't like to see us lose, but I hate far worse the loser mentality that's wants handouts and special treatment from the AFL in the form of PP's. Equalisation $$'s is very different because the fixture and ground deals are so unequal. We need to draft better, trade better and develop talent better, not put our hand out like a pauper every time things don't go our way.

And please point out where I said I fear ridicule from opposition supporters. I only said any ridicule would be deserved.

Perhaps you should htfu and be patient while we get better the same way the other 17 clubs get better. Through smart decisions and plain old hard work.

If we do finish last, I will be less upset than I was those years when we finished last because we tanked/list managed.

We are on the right track but still need at least another draft/trade period to improve the list. Even the supporters who are less concentrated on the goings on of the MFC will be able to see past the ladder position and know we have improved. Haw many 100+ losses have we had this year?

I will be upset if we ask for a PP though. That would be disgraceful and we would deserve the ridicule of opposition supporters.

The VFL competition has not served well as a good place to develop AFL seconds players for a while now. Too many byes. Too many conflicting interested parties. AFL stand alone teams. VFL stand alone teams. Clubs going broke. It needs a serious revamp.

From any Victorian AFL clubs perspective I thing they would want a VFL game every week that the senior AFL team is playing and enough control over the team/alliance so that the developing players are playing enough minutes and are learning the same structures and styles the seniors AFL side use and are playing along side VFL only players that are of high enough quality to fulfil those structures/styles. Big ???? over whether the Casey and MFC alliance is providing that. Casey's win/loss record is a very minor part as far as the MFC is concerned.

The AFL, VFL and MFC need to make it work better for us and for everyone.