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1 minute ago, adonski said:

Would love to know the footy department's thoughts on Gus. Do they genuinely not rate him highly so they stick him wherever on the basis he's simply better than the next best available player who is out of the side? Never understood taking him out of the midfield rotation.  

It’s fascinating isn’t it. 
 

I wonder in history if there has ever been another inside midfielder finishing ~ 3rd in a Brownlow at a young age, who then basically never plays the same position again? 

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Whilst it's good to see Harmes back I honestly think Vandenberg is stiff. I thought his courageous act might have kept him but obviously not.

I would have easily dropped Brayshaw for Harmes and kept Vanders at half forward where Brayshaw has been shifted too.

Gus has honestly given us nothing for the past month and has had 0 influence on the team. Seriously needs to pull his finger out this weekend because he's getting a free run at it with some of his insipid efforts the past few weeks.

The shifting around of Brayshaw is becoming one of the more perplexing scenarios going around.

Brayshaw back to defensive wing, Jordon back to primarily midfielder. Viney starting defensive half-forward flank, with occasional run in the middle. 

This is what has consistently worked - be pretty disappointed if it doesn’t happen. 

Harmes in the half-fwd flank, midfield rotations - depending if he has a tagging job. 
 

1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

Bulldogs != Lions

 

Again - Bevo probably knows what he’s doing

bit of hubris about

Maybe or maybe not. 

compare the pair:-  1 coach is undefeated against the top 8, the other coach has lost to most of the major contenders (Melb, Geel, Syd, Rich)

Dunkley is looking like a big out. Can see their overly tall team back-firing. 

6 minutes ago, WA Demon Boy said:

I agree

He has 0 goal assists for the year

That's one stat that really frightens me 

 

WOW

8/9 games, 0 assists......surely not? Surely he even mis-kicked one to an un-suspecting forward? 
 

how many assists Petracca and Oliver? (if you can find it easily) 

13 minutes ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

I  feel  very uncomfortable to hear you and Joeboy describing Viney as selfish.

The guy gives his all for the team, and for the club.  He is so brave for the team's cause that he endures repeated physical onslaughts.

I hope to hell he doesn't read Demonland.      If he does , I hope he realises that the vast majority of Demon supporters appreciate and admire his efforts. 

  I am appalled by suggestions that we should consider trading a guy who I think of as the heart and soul of our club.

No doubt many of the views in this thread are harsh on Jack - reality is, a midfield needs a complimentary mix. Unfortunately for him, he is a poor man’s version of Petracca/Oliver. I am sure he would be a much more effective midfielder for other teams where he could compliment outside class. 

this is where the responsibility is on the coaches to identify the issue and not expose him (and the team) by playing him in the middle, with 2 other similar but better players. 
 

1 minute ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

I  feel  very uncomfortable to hear you and Joeboy describing Viney as selfish.

The guy gives his all for the team, and for the club.  He is so brave for the team's cause that he endures repeated physical onslaughts.

I hope to hell he doesn't read Demonland.      If he does , I hope he realises that the vast majority of Demon supporters appreciate and admire his efforts. 

  I am appalled by suggestions that we should consider trading a guy who I think of as the heart and soul of our club.

I will acknowledge his desire for the ball, tackling and pressure acts are impressive, and highly appreciated. 

Maybe selfish is the wrong word......but how else do you describe him getting in the way and cutting off Petracca/Oliver when they are in better positions to get the contested ball?      And then Jack hurting the team by leaving us exposed on the outside

Petracca/Oliver very rarely, if ever get in each other's way.  Jack needs to urgently learn about cohesion, or hide himself on a flank....If I am wrong, happy to hear about it? but i just feel this has been a constant issue for a few years now

13 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

Outside Spargo, we seem to have reverted to our bomb it long and hope plan which is a

Our midfield group is fine, the issues you're mentioning are highlighted because of a poor game, but they weren't the cause of the poor game. 

The MFC is really simple, when we bring our effort, pressure, intensity we're the best side in the comp, when we don't, any side can beat us. 

it's impossible to do that every single week though, no team has ever managed it, what we have to do as a side though is bridge the gap between our best and worst, if we had been 10% better when we're off, we could potentially be looking at still being undefeated. 

and the beautiful thing is, we still have not been genuinely outplayed, when we've been anywhere near our best, that's the nice thing. all the other sides have. 

Great post Dwight - and this will be even more accurate if we knock off the dogs this week (like I suspect we will)

3 minutes ago, drdrake said:

That post is pure garbage.  Yep he didn't deserve to be named in the best over the weekend, everyone has a differing opinion on who deserves best players, look at to Votes post on this site to see that.  Viney on the weekend didn't butcher the ball any worse that Brayshaw and Oliver, it is just that the couple of clean centre clearances he had he absolutely butchered it.

As I keep posting, Viney is a part of a midfield group that collectively have poor disposal and decision making skills.  When the pressure goes on so does the selfish metre rises for a few of our mids, they think they are doing the right thing to turn the game back on our terms but it is actually the opposite, Oliver and Petracca are also very guilty of this.

I do agree though we need to look at trading out one of our mids at seasons end if the right deal or player was offered.  We need to add a highly skilled mid into our group.  To me Brayshaw has the most value maybe a trade to Fremantle for Cerra

Oliver and Petracca have MASSIVE other strengths to offset their occasional kicking woes. 

Jack just has additional liabilities (gets caught too often, dumb, selfish)

Don't want him traded, but do want him out of the middle. His role earlier in the year worked, why change this???

Oliver, Petracca and Jordon     or    Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw     are 2 midfield mixes that have been successful. 

Oliver, Petracca, and Viney has only very very occasionally worked. 

Great post Half Forward Flank    -     Spot on. 

2 hours ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Great facts here

Poor anaylsis though

The problem for me here is the lack of a forward running towards the ball carrier

Yes, Viney can improve, but FFS 3 of 3 forward targets stationary calling for a bomb over the top! Lead at the [censored] ball!!

Imagine being a forward knowing the bloke kicking to you has next to no chance of hitting you on a lead, if he is aiming for you 

55 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

You know what. He's come back from a horrible injury and got better every week. That's great. Sure, he looks a yard off and that's impacting his disposal but for your clubs soul you stick fat with guys like Viney. Come finals he will surprise a few 

Happy to stick fat with him, if he is used in a different role.

Not in the middle. Instead, 10-15 possessions a game, mostly handballs - 5-10 tackles, and high pressure acts. 

to have someone playing 90% on the ball, that could reliably turn the ball over via long dumb kicks, was such a large asset for the Hawks. Not to mention the turnovers via being tackled when he didn’t play within his limitations.

last night went straight back to 2019/2020, when Petracca, Oliver and Viney all played for themselves and looked like they were competing with each other to be best player - Viney is not smart enough, and constantly got in the way (and then left a free hawk in a dangerous spot)
 

2 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

 

Its not. It would have been fixed by now if it was? He's been kicking a football for 20+ years and reality is its not suddenly going to get better over one preseason or by coaching. 

Cant trade him now, but if the club doesnt work out how to use him better (eg up forward), we could just copy and paste this thread for the next  4 years. (Just like the last 4.)

Just get him out of the middle. How much evidence do they need that he doesn't work with our other current key midfielders?

Needs to stop trying to be a star, and work within his limitations, and realise he is a defensive scrapper and not much else. Either he or Harmes tags a midfielder, or plays as a defensive/negating half-fwd flank (when there is an appropriate match-up) - cant carry Viney, Harmes and Vanders in the same team. 

Very damaging game. 

Jordon or Brayshaw replaces him in the middle, with one-third of the possessions, but playing their role and we win easy.

Jack needs to be investigated for match-fixing due to consistently passing to Hawks players

Wake up from my nightmare, with a smile on my face, remembering that we won the game the day before by 104 points. 

1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

Salem can be a liability at times Hollywood handpasses, lazy kicking and sometimes short steps but then you have the good side, important link plays and great kicking just wish he could be the latter all the time.

“Salem can be a liability at times”

I didn’t know there was another Salem playing? As there is no chance you could ever describe Christian in this manner - the most reliable player by hand and foot in the team. 
 

41 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Picture this, Port surging back into the game, the home crowd roar becomes louder, the Dees player playing a bit more nervy, the umpires buying into the home crowd rants and raves, the game on the line in the 3rd quarter. Mcdonald goals! The pressure is alleviated and the bleeding stopped. A few minutes later, Mcdonald kicks another goal! Pressure starts going back on Port, Mcdonald's confidence through the roof.  Next minute, Mcdonald sent to the bench. 

This is the most stupid coaching call of the night. I love how coaches try and be on the cutting edge of sport science with their rotations. How about sorting out our goal kicking inefficiency before getting fancy and keeping our good players on when they start lighting it up. 

I noticed that TMac was disappointed when notified he had to head to the bench also. 

I am sure for some players that get comfortable/complacent after a goal it could make sense to take them off......But a confidence player like TMac should be just told to carry on! 
 

1 minute ago, hardtack said:

No one thinks that having Brown in the forward line has led to the mids kicking into the forwards with more confidence?  The difference between this week and last week against GWS was chalk and cheese.

Definitely part of the value he provides. By working well with the other fwds (ie leading at the right time to the right part of ground) - it definitely makes it easier for the mids to move the ball forward with confidence. 
 

28 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Yes Brown had 3 score involvements but they were all behinds.

I am not sure if rushed scores are included as Score Involvements, but I am guessing they are and that one SI was when he kicked off the ground early in the game and it was rushed and another SI when his snap from the pocket was also rushed.

As I said earlier, Brown was OK but not good. The key to the win was our amazing defence and Petracca, Kossie and TMac starring. IMO there is no clear evidence that we would not have won just as easily had we gone in unchanged.

I also reckon TMac was pretty good last week but for his goal kicking. Perhaps the extra rest helped last night? Or maybe he just fluffed his chances against GWS? There is no way of knowing with such a small sample size.

Go back and have a look at how our fwd line functions with Weid in (this year and last) - he clogs up space, doesn’t know when or how to lead, doesn’t assist other fwds, and doesn’t bring the ball to ground as much as BB did. 

weid could learn a lot from watching Brown’s game last night. 
 

53 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Melbourne Goals vs Port

Jackson from a set shot after a high mark. Brown was in the pack but it was kicked on his head and Jackson had the sit. Brown had no impact. (Not sure Brown was even on the ground.)

TMac on the run from a Jackson handball. Brown had no impact.

Spargo wins a high free and kicks a snap. Brown had no impact.

Petracca out the back of the Port press. Port spoiled into the centre of the ground and we got a counterattack goal. Brown had no impact.

Kossie long ping. Brown was looking for a handball receive from Fritsch, who fumbled and recovered to give the handball to Pickett, who kicked a ripper. Brown had no impact.

Petracca’s snap. Kick long to Brown, who runs under a long ball but draws a contest. Picket gets a touch on the marking contest which spills over the back. Petracca kicks a fantastic snap under pressure. Brown drew his defender and was loosely involved in this one but really this was due to Petracca’s brilliance.

Fritsch’s dribbling snap. The ball got out the back of Port’s press after TMac won a beautiful contest and kicked long to Fritsch, who took a juggling mark and snapped on his right foot. Brown had no impact. (Not sure Brown was even on the ground.)

Pickett one hand mark and 50m. Oliver wins a clearance at half back and does a one-two with Langdon and kicks long to half forward. TMac and Kossie in the contest and Pickett takes a juggling mark and gets pummelled and wins 50m to the goal square. Brown had no impact.

TMac from a mark and set shot after a clean centre clearance. Brown had no impact.

TMac snap after a deliberate out of bounds free, he has his kick smothered and gets a handball back and kicks a curling snap. Brown had no impact.

Petracca joe the goose. Long kick to Jackson at full forward. Roved by Jordon and Petracca gets rewarded for tremendous gut running. Brown had no impact. (Not sure Brown was even on the ground.)

Kossie 50m bomb. Long kick down the line from the wing.  Brown was in the area but could not get to the contest. Ball is dropped by Port defenders around Fritsch. Ball spills to Pickett who kicks a ripper. Brown had no impact.

Watch the replay mate - you have missed the value Brown provided to the structure last night - a self-less game, that benefited just about all our other forwards. 

We have found our key fwd for finals. 
 

8 hours ago, Kozzie4PM said:

Caro put dogs, Bris, Geelong and port ahead of us for the flag this week. No other contender has got anywhere us.

Strange analysis isn’t it Koz - given we have beaten them all easily. 
 

As supporters we need to learn not to get sucked in to the media’s short term over-reactions - designed to generate an emotional response + click more articles. 
 

6.  Petracca

5.  Oliver 

4.  McDonald 

3.  Petty

2.  Salem

1.  Gawn 

apologies May/Pickett/Hibberd 

1 minute ago, goodwindees said:

There is just one change.  Ben Brown in for Tom Sparrow.

Must say that I am really surprised that rather than give Sparrow a rest OR a confidence boosting run at Casey, the "brains trust" has elected to take him to Adelaide along with Jake Melksham as the 2 extras.

 

 

Casey playing Sat - will be able to travel to Adelaide with the team, and still play for Casey 

22 minutes ago, CHF said:

I am very pleased to be 12-3 on the ladder and lying second. A position I acknowledge in the very first lines of my preview. 

In previewing this round I have to look at our recent performances and, I my view, they have been less than acceptable performances from both the players and the coaching staff.

So, from my point of view, not so very strange.

 

Port have not beaten a top 8 side other than Sydney by 10 points.

Melb have not lost to a top 8 side (GWS outside of 8 at start of last round) 

21 minutes ago, CHF said:

12-3

15 rounds played…..12 wins….. 48 points in the premiership bank and dropped to second on the ladder after a not-so-forgettable loss to the Great Waste of space.

Defence under pressure…. Midfield looking flat and devoid of ideas and imagination …… forward structure non-existent….. or at least still dysfunctional after 15 games this season. Goody thinks that is a good thing.

It is not as if we were playing world beaters in GWS. They are a good competent side that has a number of quality players but it is not a team that we should have lost too. Rubbish first half and a better second half with no one able to take the chances on offer. Midfield could not deliver with confidence to a forward structure that would not allow them to identify proper targets.

Very disappointing and worrying performance.

And so, to Round 17 and we play the Port Power this Thursday night at Adelaide Oval. 2^nd vs 3^rd and there is every chance that if we lose this one, we could find ourselves in 5^th place come Monday morning…… And who would be surprised when the much lauded coaching panel still have no idea of the best forward setup? So much for adding Yze and Choco. They looked good when we were winning but are scratching their heads at the moment.

The facts:

We are coming off a grinding loss – Advantage them

The game is at Adelaide Oval – Advantage them

We have been rubbish the last few weeks – Advantage them

They are coming off a win last week against the Hawks – Advantage them

Not looking good, is it?

Problem areas of the game for us. Still the bloody forwards…. And now you can add the midfield that looks flat and disinterested.

Defenders did their job with very little support from other sectors of the ground. Goodwin swung Hunt forward in the last to remind us why he was moved back. Running out of defence the way he does is good when there are players forward of him, so he does not have to make too many decisions. Stick him in the front half and he runs out of players to pass forward to and he has forgotten that there are four sticks at the end of the ground you can have a ping at. Go back to the structure that works for the defenders and sort out the rest of the players.

A bit of midfield pressure goes a long way toward winning a game of footy as can be seen by the difference between our play in the first half as opposed to the second where we remembered to apply pressure. Made a world of difference. We are rubbish at sorting out onfield problems during the game. Our clearances in the first half were less than acceptable and yet I did not see anyone changing things onfield to sort it out. If something is not working…. Fix it then and there. Try something different. Jackson to ruck with Max roving at the center bounce as a mid…Anything….. Anything at all. It has to be better than doing SFA.

Max and Luke will win the taps at the ruck contest but so what?

Oh dear……. Now for the forwards……. I hate to keep picking on them every week but a score of 7-13 from 56 inside 50s with 10 marks in the 50 arc leave them open, once again, to bear the brunt of criticism.

The good; Fritsch kicked a few and Tmac is in good form but not getting the ball near to goal

The bad; Wow. Where to start? No forward targets…. (left over from last week)

The ugly; Selection stubbornness in not giving BBB a run.

Another week, another win without a recognisable structure to the forward line. We took 10marks inside our forward 50…. 10. We scored 7 goals 13. Please, please….fix this…. Brown to come in? if so, will that make it any better? Could not be any worse. (Paraphrased last week)

Shaking my head here…. No idea what could fix it but then again, I am not paid the big bucks by the MFC to come up with answers to problems, and the people that are, are not providing answers. Any thoughts on the subject Yze? Choco? Goody???? You guys have been around a lot ya gotta have some idea….. (repeat from last week)

Selection….. make some changes don’t just nibble the chesses and have a friendly chat about the weather and leave the team to wallow without a forward structure that they can play too.

I heard a few loud clunks last week and The Bathwater Express ground to a halt as the wheels had fallen off. To be honest they did not so much ‘fall off’ more like that jumped off and ran away into the bush as they did not want to be associated with TBE. Understandable. It will take a lot to get them back on the hubs.

Last week I predicted a 6 goal win….. got it wrong…. Very wrong….. I would Love to predict a win here but, after a long bull run, the bears are in ascendancy and I have to predict a loss….. not even an honourable one…. 30pts and 5^th after the round.

 

Go Dees!!! ( I still love the team but they make it so damn hard)

we have the equal least losses in the league, yet after reading this post I have to check the ladder to remind myself that we are not last.......so very strange. 

dees up by 2 goals at quarter time, and end up beating Port by 25 points. 
 

The lack of faith on this forum is funny.

we are a genuine PREMIERSHIP threat, who had an off day Sat, just like all the other premiership threats have done multiple times this year.

we will beat Port Thurs, and you will all jump back on again. 
 

2 hours ago, kev martin said:

Don't agree, he gets plenty of looks at it. When he has a close job on his opponent, he gets the ball off them. When he has no close opponent he is still in there getting the ball.

My problem with him is, the decision making. Often, he takes "them on" too much, trying to break tackles or his timing puts pressure on himself or the receiver. Needs to speed up and leave less margin for errors. Would be good if he ran or delivers to space when he has the ball (not alone in that area). A few need to be smarter when they have the ball.

Agree with this. Vines can be a match winner or can turn the momentum our way when he is going. He also has a great connection with Gawn, give him time.

Gawny is very flexible because of his marking ability. With a proper tall at full forward he can offer an extra tall in there, or play that defensive keep it in the attacking 50 game, or support the backline when needed. Play him everywhere. 

The small forward line isn’t working. We aren't smart enough to lower our eyes and kick to advantage. Bring in a stay at home tall.

Not sure we have a like for like Hibbs replacement, Maynard retired. Possibly AVB, but they may be setting him as a mid.

Wrong Maynard bud.

we are poaching the collingwood version end of year.