Lord Nev

A bit of a positive conspiracy theory...

- Toby wants more opporunity
- Rumours about Kozzy and Port
- Toby lives with Kozzy
- Toby has requested a trade

🤔

Seems Dymocks must have made a horrible mistake...

55 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

A couple of apartment blocks at either end of the Casey main oval would provide some much needed relief of the wind and some signs of life out there. I’d move in and watch VFL from my balcony!

And they could literally call the development "Demonland"...

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It’s not a matter of hardball it’s a matter of what’s fair considering the circumstances. It wasn’t hardball with Ben Brown, we didn’t try to talk up his busted knees and offer a 3rd, we gave up a reasonable 2nd.

If there’s huffing and puffing it should be from Collingwood trying to appease their members, some of whom are still thinking they’re giving up prime Polly Farmer.

A fair expectation on what Grundy will give us is 3-4 years of solid ruck play. Not game changing stuff like he did in ‘19. And not 8 years of it like you’d get from a 24 year old. How’s that worth a first round pick?

I guess we'll see. IMO I reckon we'll end up giving up a pick around 15-20, or Freo's future 1st - possibly with some later pick swaps in the late 2nd/3rd round.

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

here is a pick in the 20s and a commitment to pay $650k. Take it or leave all your October plans as just that’

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Injured, club wants him out, there’s really no leverage for the Pies. They can have a million dollar ruckman in the reserves or they can cop a second round pick. 

Just not how we operate though. We don't huff and puff, we just get things done quickly and fairly.

All this 'hardball' commentary completely ignores how we actually do business.

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

Think it was reported yesterday Mitchell is staying at the Hawks.

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But despite all that players still want to go to the Pies and other clubs like them.

Maybe. McStay is going there for more money than anyone else would pay him. Who else is coming to them? I haven't really kept close track tbh.

Treloar gone, Grundy gone, Henry possibly gone. They'll always have some kind of pull given they're a huge club, but reckon they've been dented in all this now.

Edit - Bobby Hill is going there too yeah? Be interested to see his rumoured contract as well.

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

After reading Nev and Redleg's speculations above, it seems that the employer (Colonwood) has said to its employee , "Yes you have a contract but we are going to change the conditions by cutting your pay.  You can accept this or [censored] off"!

On the other side, in recent years we have had contracted players telling their club they want out ...... and getting their way.

Which leads to my question. Are player/club contacts really worth anything nowadays?

I have mixed feelings about it all. A contract should be a contract, but I think we've seen both players and clubs try to break them to move on, and IMO the players still have the bigger share of power in player movement - literally declaring a specific club they must be traded to.

Clubs like Collingwood will surely have a poor reputation now in terms of handling player contracts, whereas the Dees seem to be no fuss and genuinely try to do the best thing - The TMac and ANB examples stand out to me, plus it feels like the way they've handled Tomlinson this year is similar to that. Then there's the class with which the club has handled the Jackson situation. Combine that with our apparently Oscar worthy PowerPoints and we do seem to genuinely be a 'destination club' in a manner of speaking.

Just now, Redleg said:

Yes that makes sense. He signs a 7 year deal because they love him and really want and need him. 2 years later after doing the same to a team mate, they tell him he can take a large pay cut, or is free to look around, as they need to adjust their salary cap. He now feels he has been lied to and gets angry with them. He sees the writing on the wall and meets the Dees and is impressed. He tells the Pies I am disappointed with you, but will leave, but go only to the Dees, if you can do a deal with them and I get my full contract pay.

That is how I see the scenario playing out.

Yeah, reckon you've nailed it, especially after Pendlebury's comments along the lines of 'he has a future with us if he wants it', which IMO was an incredibly poor comment.

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I won’t swear to it, but I thought I saw a quote somewhere from Grundy saying he wanted to stay at Pies. Certainly several media quotes from the “experts “ have said this as well.

They've also said he's furious at the club, which seems at odds with wanting to stay there. Perhaps he originally wanted to stay but after this situation he wants out? Would make sense yeah?

1 minute ago, Kent said:

It is still 600 grand !

Pretty cheap for a 2x AA, 2x BnF ruck I would have thought tbh.

How much do you reckon we would have been paying Jackson next year?

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

They were/are both angry and dissatisfied because they were asked to leave.

Both wanted to stay, take that to the bank.

Quite possibly, sure, but Jimmy was saying Grundy "openly stated" this, but I've not seen any comment from him at all about the situation. Just keen to see if I missed it.

6 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Grundy has openly stated that he wanted to stay at Collingwood.

They want him gone so they don't get to decide whether it's a first rounder unless they're paying a ridiculous amount of his salary which they would rather not do because they want him off their books! 

They can't have it both ways. And for whatever reason, you think they can. 

The dogs only gave up pick 14 for Treloar because they needed points to cover for bids on Jamarra. 

Can you quote where he said that mate? I've heard media reports speculating but not seen a comment from him.

Last thing I saw was Sam Edmund saying:

With this move a salary dump from Collingwood’s perspective, Edmund believes Grundy is dissatisfied with the club, much like Adam Treloar who wanted to remain a Magpie but was traded to the Bulldogs at the end of the 2020 season.

“If Adam Treloar was 10 out of 10 on the anger scale with his departure, this isn’t that far behind from my understanding,” Edmund said.

Grundy not “far behind” Treloar-like dissatisfaction with Collingwood trade

Also, in terms of "have it both ways", I think you need to balance out the fact they'll be paying a third of his salary, different story if we were to pay Grundy's whole wage, but that's not the deal and people seem to be forgetting that.

2 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Ordinary article by Caro in TheAge

Citing Sam Mitchell's book published in 2018, and conversations with non-indigenous player who all said "that their own experiences should not be compared to those published in the cultural safety review"

And the majority "stressed that Clarkson saw himself as a father figure at the club who, while at times overstepping the mark in interfering in their personal lives, firmly believed he was prioritising the best interests of his footballers"

The most shocking "fresh" allegation is that Mitchell had to hand his phone in with all temates while away and his Mrs was often needing to take on of the babies to hospital  -  and a few paragraphs later actually note the fact that the phone was given back and an exception made for him...

So a non-story with no relevant new information insinuating there is more shocking accusations, just so Caro can get some column inches out the door...

Come on mate, pretty clearly you're trying to diminish what happened here seemingly because you have something against Caroline Wilson for some reason.

Re: 'taking one of the babies to hospital' - Clearly more serious than that, and Evans had to step in:

Both Sam and Lyndall Mitchell had feared for daughter Scarlett's survival at a young age. Then-football boss Mark Evans is understood to have stepped in and returned Mitchell's phone to him so he could remain in contact with his wife.

Mitchell: “I felt I didn't get a lot of empathy from the powers that be at Hawthorn for what Lyndall and I were going through,”

Then:

The Age have also reported further allegations against Clarkson that surround his controlling behaviour have surfaced, with the four-time premiership coach alleged to have:

• Expressed surprise before the twins' birth that Mitchell was having children so close together (the Mitchell's son Smith was 11 months old when the twins were born) and wondered at the effect this might have upon his playing career.
• Publicly announced Mitchell was missing a game against Richmond due to personal reasons relating to the twins' health without the player's knowledge or consent.
• Ultimately agreed to treat Mitchell with more respect when the pair resolved their differences at the end of the season but again questioned the wisdom of the timing of the twins' birth.

Further details surrounding the Mitchells' time at the club were also recounted by the wife of an ex-player, who revealed Lyndall was criticised for not showing enough emotion following the club's preliminary final loss to Collingwood in 2011.

What Clarkson "believes" has absolutely no bearing on this as is not a defence at all. It's what you actually do that matters, not how you define it in your own mind.

It's not end of the world stuff, but absolutely adds to a picture about Clarkson.

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

Lord Nev, this scenario works well for us if we can get at least 3 - 4 years of quality service from Grundy (should do given he's 28 and has been quite durable over his career) and can turn pick 8 into a quality key position forward / defender that can have an impact in their 2nd or 3rd season. I include defender as this could free up Petty to play forward.

There's some classic red and blue goggles going on in Demonland as usual hey? Now that Jackson has requested a trade apparently his worth has gone down, and at the same time people are expecting some kind of mega bargain for Grundy. It's just not how the Dees operate in the trade period - we get things done with not much fuss.

We gave up pick 6 for May (and KK), nearly 27 at the time, never All-Australian. Granted it's a different situation given the contract, but the point is we had a specified target and got it done. Grundy is a 28 year old 2x AA, 2x Copeland winner, and with Freo's first rounder next year likely to be somewhere around 13-15 it's not a ridiculous trade, (with some later pick swaps probably in the mix) even more so when you consider Collingwood will be paying a third of his wage.

There seems to be a perception on Demonland that we're doing this deal just for the sake of it due to the salary dump and expecting a bargain, but IMO it seems obvious this is a targeted trade like we usually do when we address a need.

8 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I had a pic taken with that commodity tonight and I told him I was sad and he said “why’s that?” and then I remembered I was a little drunk and just said “never mind.” 😁 I got pics with many of the commodities and in all of those it’s smiles all round but in the Jayden pic, nary a smile to be seen. 🙁

You're far too wholesome for this place WCW.

7 hours ago, Beetle said:

It’s about freeing up cap space and at the start of the year, he was unfortunately one of the players in the group that were potentially going to be let go. 

Interesting. I have heard it rumoured we're looking at the draft more the next two years, partly to accommodate contracts, but wouldn't have thought Hunt's next deal would be any type of amount that would have much of an impact overall.

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't get this move from Hunt unless it's purely about contract length - did we offer him 1 year only? He was playing 1s pretty much all year and last year and I think he is going to struggle at the Eagles.

Gut feel is it might be about next year's plans. Perhaps Bowey was going to be ahead of him next year, or maybe we've got someone in the pipeline to play half back? Sounds like Eagles had been into him during the year, and there was a rumour the Hawks had as well, so talks were happening a while out it seems.

Just now, Jaded No More said:

Without a  doubt. 
By 2030 he could well be a 7 time B&F, Brownlow medalist, 4 time coaches award winner and most importantly a 3 time premiership player. 
That’s definitely not beyond the realms of possibility. Only injuries stand between him and immortality in this game. 

Would have had a Brownlow this year if the bloke who is apparently now the next Ghandi hadn't kicked him in the hand...

Just now, CYB said:

Frost was something else. His body worked faster than his brain. He had athleticism and was skilful, unfortunately couldn’t combine them at the same time. 
 

We tried to keep him on the cheap - prefer he stayed in the squad ahead of others tbh.

 Nah, backline has done just fine without him I reckon.

And Don McLardy won a raffle prize too! lol

Clarry has won the Bluey in more seasons than he hasn't...

4 out of 7. What an absolute legend of the club.

2 minutes ago, CYB said:

I’m not my happy about this move at all. Yes he’s not in our best, but he had what most players didn’t and that was raw pace. 

So did Frost, but the club was happy to let him go in the name of cleaning up back half turnovers (which were a bigger problem then than now tbf), so I wonder if this could be similar in a way?