warren dean

My favourite is the current Bombers Captain whose old man played for the Blues, but followed FITZROY as a kid!

Sorry, Jarka - missed your post but agree with everything you've said. It is all about different opinions and all we want is the best outcome for this club.

You asked for some alternatives - Lynch and Ball are recent premiership players who have played under a variety of successful coaches. I'd back their records against Ingerson, Lyon, Healy, Frawley any day of the week. Stan actually had a reasonable record as a coach, but more importantly he is an astute media observer who would be at least equally as well qualified as Schwab. If you are not happy with these names then I could also suggest Parkin and Blight as coaches who would provide contrasting but very valuable contributions and are both unaligned but still actively involved in the media. Why do you need coaching experience to have an opinion on who might make a good coach. If we follow that line right through then you are saying that the club has made an error in consulting Lyon, Ingerson, Maclure et al. For the record, Lynch has played under Parkin, Curly Austin, Robert Shaw, Walls, Northey and Matthews; Ball played under Malthouse, Eade and Roos. Between them they played in five premiership teams. I think they might know a bit about success and what it takes to make a successful coach. But anyway, it's just an opinion, and I'm more than happy to be prominent in my criticism of the appointed group because it is totally justified.

Early start, Rhino! It doesn't diminish it all - I just don't rate it that highly. I would suggest we might be better served by having a smaller group of people with recent success - names that come to mind include Alistair Lynch; Jason Ball (recent premiership players) and perhaps someone of more experience like Stan Alves. Just not sure that the blokes consulted thus far are the best we could get and there are certainly too many of them.

Here are a few facts re the "consultative" panel. Frawley and Schwab = failed coaches; Walls = one premiership as a coach 20 years ago which was heavily bankrolled; Lyon = too comfortable in the media and hasn't the stomach for the job (as pointed out by Sheedy); Burke = very little team success; Ingo = a good tryer who is apparently quite a successful builder (super qualified to assit in the appointment of a coach); Mark Maclure = some very insightful comments on the ABC over the past 5 years and that's about it for a recent contribution. What exactly is it that these blokes will be contributing to the process? The Board will make the final decision but it must be fully informed. As a member I help elect a board to run the footy club, not waste money consulting people whose opinions are not necessarily any more informed than some of the posters on this site. These guys watch a lot of footy and talk about it a lot. I just question their success rate and therefore their ability to contribute to constructively to the "process". Anyway, enough time wasted on this!

AS, succinct as always! I would have thought the process should be fairly straightforward too. The list of available talent is well known. You only get rid of someone when you have a better replacement. We have obviously overlooked this very simple rule of human resource management; unless I've missed something. QueenC, what the club should be looking for is a potential premiership coach. Surely that is the ultimate objective of this whole "process".

Sorry Rumpole, I didn't mean for Stan to coach, but to add input to the consultancy group - I rate him far more highly than most of the vaudeville act listed as 'consultants'.

This so called group of consultants is a joke. Most of them have no senior premiership experience (Lyon, Burke, Ingo, Frawley); Frawley and Scwab were failed coaches and Walls most recent success was 20 years ago. We drink from the well of failure once again! What I will never be able to understand is how Gardiner and Harris can come up with a review process and force the hand of the incumbent; and then come up with this group of failures to find the replacement. The irony of Schwab's role is that when ND was appointed he and Damien Drum were the next two in line. Thank God we appointed ND - imagine how bad the last 10 years could have been! How about Stan Alves, who at least gave St Kilda their most successful season since 1966, is an ex Melbourne Captain and premiership player (albeit at North) and is still involved in the media. I haven't liked this "process" from the start and I have even less confidence now.

The names on that consultation group are a little mystifying. A number of ex-players who have decided that coaching isn't for them (Lyon, Burke, Healy,Ingerson, Maclure) and some failed ex coaches (Frawley, Schwab) plus Rob Walls who won a flag 20 years ago! I'd feel a lot more confident if blokes like David Parkin were involved in some way. This group inspires very little confidence. In fact as I look at the names, I notice none of Lyon, Burke, Frawley, Ingerson or Healy were involved with any premierships.

Not a bad side at all Biff! I'd have big Danny out and slot Ingo into the last line; Balls Grinter out for Cameron Bruce; Sugar Healy out for the Flash and I reckon JMac might just pinch Yze's spot on the bench. Swooper Northey to coach this team!

Spot on, Deanox. My brother and I were at preseason training in 95 when Scwarter first did his knee. He had come off a brilliant 94 and looked like he was going to be anything. Lyon held up quite well that year (kicked 70 odd goals) but the bad back started to kick in. No doubt it cost us a flag. Especially when you add Prymke's bad back. It meant moving Neitz, which was probably good for him as you point out, but the injuries cost us a flag and Balme his job in the end!

Jacey, he was a ripping CHB. He played for Victoria at CHB in 1994 in only his second season. In fact, at one stage Wayne Carey had him alongside Glen Jakovich as his toughest opponent. Scwarter's knee at the beginning of 95 meant that Neita went to CHF where he made All Australian in only his third year. He was an absolute gun!

Before we get too excited about Riley (who I must admit has made a promising start) let's see how he goes against decent opposition. It was nice to win the Carlton game, but in all honesty the quality of what they put out on the park each week rivals that of Fitzroy in 1995/96. Let's sit back and judge him over the next 8 weeks. If his coaching can help this team win at least 3 more matches then I'd say he is a chance. Given the draw, it's possible, if unlikely.

Neita played all over the place in 2000. He spent the last part of the season bw ff and chf , but earlier in the season spent a lot of time at CHB (Ingo covered full back for a while). Neita played an absolute blinder against the Lions at the then Colonial Stadium at CHB earlier in the year. From memory it was a night game and may even have been a Monday night. He got the full Brownlow votes and took about 15 marks I think.

With all due respect, where has tradition got us in the last 40 years? People on this site often bemoan the lack of leadership in our current playing ranks - I say do whatever is going to best fast track leadership development. I'd say multiple captains is successful at Sydney and I'd say that working alongside Lynch in the early years made Voss a better Captain. Then again, I don't think Voss will coach Melbourne so it probably won't even be a consideration!

Depends entirely on the new coach! If it was Voss then I'd say we are a moral to have co-captains - probably Neitz, McLean, Rivers. Don't forget he was first appointed as a co-captain with Lynch and they shared the role for 3-4 years. He is a strong advocate of Matthews philosophies and this year Leigh has 5 captains! If it were to be someone like Pagan then McLean would be a certainty I reckon.

Agreed. I'd say it's adone deal given that 2 of the 4 members of the sub committee are quite close to ND. Buhagiar is a former team mate and Cameron Schwab led the committee that appointed him at the Demons. Good luck to him. He'll do a great job!

A very astute observation, Sleeve! I said something similar myself in another thread. I would love to see him given a few games in a row at CHB. I think the Chad Cornes comparison is a good one. It never hurts a developing player to play on some good opposition, and there are a few good key forwards around atm. I reckon he might end up a very good utility player similar to Terry Daniher (for those of you old enough to remember him). That guy could play every key position on the ground and also took turns on the ball from time to time. If Dunny turns out half as good we'll end up with a great player.

Correct Herb! He is no more or less important than anyone else at the club. His best draft by far was 8 years ago in 1999, when despite salary cap breach penalties he has manged to get over 500 games from Bruce, Green, Whelan and Wheatley. He's also had a few misses (98, 01 being 2 that spring to mind). Even in 2000, he got Scott Thompson and not much else, and then Thommo left anyway - the other part of his role is list management (Remember his title is recruiting and list management!) His recent acquisitions look promising but it is too early too make the call on the likes of Buckley, Newton etc. I like the job CAC has done in general, but he is not indispensable. I quite like the work Ricky Barham has done at Sydney - he has assembled a first rate list with very little in the way of early draft choices since about 1995.

It's an interesting one, isn't it? Unfortunately he has not inherited his old man's pace. He seems to have thickened up a lot this year and I just wonder if he hasn't got himself too big. I recall Jobe Watson being given a number of years on the list before he really made his mark last season (he started in 02 or 03 I think), and he improved dramatically once he got his body shape right. CJ just doesn't look physically in great condition to me - maybe dropping 3 or 4 kilos and doing some speed work might improve his situation. ATM I reckon he's in trouble!

Great win in a pretty ordinary standard game! My top 6: 6: Wheatley - best game this bloke has played. 5: Bate 4: Sylvia 3: JMac 2: Jones 1: Robbo - 5 goals is 5 goals Apologies to plenty

No, I didn't think any of the above. I was simply pointing out the obvious that any comparison of the statistical output of Sylvia and Johnson is irrelevant as they are totally different players with totally different match committee expectations. Their performances would not be judged by the coaching staff using the same criteria. Johnson and Sylvia do not compete for the same position so any argument for CJ's inclusion would be based on his performance relative to those he is competing for a position with - Ward, Bell, Wheatley etc. By the way, I agree that Sylvia has been given an extended run when perhaps others weren't afforded the same luxury. I am however certain that Sylvia will, at least, be a good player. I haven't seen anything from CJ yet to indicate that he will be. I hope I'm proven wrong!

Yep. Different players, different positions. Sylvia, due to OP, has been predominantly an impact forward with the occasional run in the mid field. CJ is a running defender. You should really be comparing his stats with Ward, Wheatley, Bell etc. The only reason he is in this week is because Bell is injured.

Couldn't agree more. Games at AFL level should not be given away - they need to be earnt. I know it's a different era, but what the hell, it's heritage round so I'll bring it up anyway. Blokes like Michael Tuck, Gary O'Donnell etc became great players after earning their senior game time through strong, consistent performances over a long period of time at the level below the best. I know all the arguments about smaller lists etc, but can't help but wonder if blokes get games too easily nowadays. There will always appear to be blokes who are out of favour with certain coaches (I always thought Chris Lamb got a rough deal), but seriously, CJ hasn't really been a particularly consistent performer at Sandy, whereas everytime Sylvia plays there he looks well above the standard!

What is is about our club and leaders? We have had three very long term captains in the last 25 years (Flower, Lyon and Neitz) as well as a couple of relative short termers (Greg Healy and Viney) yet it seems, as a whole, we have lacked on field leadership throughout most of that time, and I say that with no disrespect to those captains, who have all been excellent servants of the club. The very best teams seem to have a number of leaders - Swans, Bombers and Hawks in the '80's, Tigers of the '70's, North in the '70's and '90's. Maybe Grant Thomas was onto something! For mine, if Brock is the natural long term successor then he might as well start auditioning for it now!