titan_uranus

My gut feeling is, unless a super-high pick is offered (like, 1-10), in which case he would be traded, Laidley is just doing this to give McIntosh a wake up call. In 2007 he was close to All-Australian, and was streets in front of Hale and Petrie. Now he's lagging behind, and Laidley's done this to let him know his position in the team isn't automatic anymore.

The interesting thing Sen said is they received a sms and a email saying the same thing moments apart.

For all we know they were sent by two Demonland readers who both saw this rumour and decided to tell SEN.

Also, Brent Prismall has requested to be traded from Geelong.

Here we go...

Could even end up with

Pick 17 to Freo

Warnock to Carlton

Walker to the Dees

if we resign ourselves to the fact Warnock will find a way to end up at the Blues, then i could see this happening

Pick 17 for Walker? You're kidding, right? Walker is a hack, and plays less than Rivers too. And you can see us giving up pick 17 for him...

SEN passed it off as just speculation Titan. They received it by email and sms. Just a rumour.

Mmm yeah I thought that was the case.

Best: Rogue or Nasher

(Honourable mention to Belzebub)

Most entertaining: Yze Magic

Funniest: Redandbluethruandthru

I had the pleasure of meeting him earlier in the year, and he is one huge unit. Up close he looks much, much bigger than he does out on the field or on TV. I was surprised at how big he looked, even compared to some of the other bigger blokes.

I reckon he's just a fairly generic defender, but one that will fit in nicely in to a well functioning backline given his size, speed and strength. Happy with his progress this year though.

Yeah, I saw him up close too, and he is quite the man.

As far as his football goes, he didn't make 4th in the B&F based on skill. He is one player who does what is asked of him, and the coaches have rewarded him.

my question is, how influential can they be? i mean, the price you need to pay to get a great one (high draft picks or players in trades), is it worth getting a ruck, or should you focus on a star mid or forward, who is more likely to have a genuine effect on the game and be able to sway results? im not sure that ruckmen can change the flow of a game the way a star mid or forward can. and if thats the case, get yourself a good honest ruckman who can negate the opposition ruckman, and you will probably be almost as well off, and you didnt have to pay for him (and therefore could snare a good player for another part of the ground).

I still think that a dominant display by a ruckman can change the course of a game. But yes, if it costs too much, a good midfielder could help to overcome a ruckman deficiency.

I beg to differ Titan. Campbell is a very handy ruckman at present. And he still has upside to him (improvement). I rate Campbell, although I definitely have Petrie, Cox and Sandilands in the "top bracket", so me putting Campbell in their company would be being kind to him. Simmonds...not so sure he is that much better than Campbell, was fortunate to get a start in the Hall of Fame game, but that's my view.

Well let's agree to disagree HT. I'd rate Simmonds above Campbell, but whatever.

Yeah I think it's delayed a bit because there were nominations from the GF, and, to make it fair, they need time to accumulate votes. So maybe this week.

According to friend, this rumour was just mentioned on the radio (SEN maybe? I don't know). Whether that strengthens or weakens it I don't know.

I'm pretty sure it's 2pm finish, because that's the deadline on Friday.

As for beginning, probably 10, maybe 10.30.

Firstly, one poor deal does not validate another.

Secondly, neither Davey or Green would be a first round pick on their own. And certainly not a viable trade together for pick 4.

Agreed. I have to thank you, RR, for maintaining some realistic thoughts.

We're not getting pick 4 from Port, especially not how some people on this forum think.

Seaby is still 100% better than Jamar though.

No he's not. He's 100% of Jamar. In other words, they're both crap.

^^

Agree.

firstly. ruckmen are only important if the opposition have a good ruckman. ie two dud ruckmen cancel each other out, as do two superstar ruckmen.

secondly. an average ruckman can be made to look superstar by having a great midfield around him.

thirdly. the importance of ruckwork itself has diminished due to the centre circle rule, which means that it is more about negating the opposition than about knocking to advantage.

forthly. a good ruckman can impose himself physically on a contest, blocking and shepherding and clearing space for his mids. taking marks in the forward while under physical pressure.

conclusion. the key to successful rucking seems to be good contested marking and endeavour and willingness to use your body around the ground. this is why jamar looked *better* this year, especially when compared to jeff white. however he still hasnt reached an appropriate level, and his refusal to kick the ball is embarrassing.

Great summary of ruckmen deanox. Still, the point is, a 'superstar' ruckman vs a dud ruckman can give a team a serious advantages at the stoppages. There just aren't enough 'superstar' ruckman.

100 votes! 94 of which say they like the jumper. That's pretty good I reckon.

Now, I send to the club. Probably pointless, but I'll do it anyway. Makes me feel like I tried, at least.

Off field indiscretions? Like attending a funeral, having a few drinks after it, then turning himself into the club?

Wasn't a great moment in his career, and deserved the week off, but surely you can't say that's hurt him.

Didn't he miss a training session as a result? The circumstances are different, sure, but I don't think it would be ignored by the coaches.

But yeah, I guess it's not the biggest factor.

When? Last year?

and with a name like yours (titan_uranus)...and your having a go for me posting crap

look what you posted on this forum about left footers

"Yeah I didn't realise until later that most of the players who have just one foot are lefties. I think the fact that lefties generally are better kicks, and the fact that lefties often have absolutely no right foot go hand in hand. In other words, they concentrate a lot on kicking with their left as coaches see it as a weapon of sorts. In the process they neglect their right foot."

recruiters don't discriminate because someone is right footed- so we aint drafting him. it's purely coincidental the hawks have more lefties than righties.

Not a good example BB. Hawthorn staff have been quoted as saying they drafted left footers specifically to increase their kicking efficiency. Wrong again.

you two obviously don't understand the importance of having a decent ruckman who can move around the ground- cos jamar is terrible

I tell you what, I don't normally do this, but you really do post a lot of crap. You have no idea what you're talking about. To actually link 'move around the ground' to Mark Seaby is utterly ridiculous. I never said Jamar wasn't terrible either. But Seaby is not close to being a decent replacement.

The suggestion that Davey is worth pick 4 is ludicrous and just plain stupid. In fact, the suggestion that anyone on Melbourne's list is worth anything better than pick 16 is dumb.

I just don't see clubs offering anything of worth to us. His value's about as low as it could be. We'd lose out in most possible deals.

LOL @ Melbourne going after Mark Seaby.

He is one of the absolute worst players in the comp and will bring NOTHING to the club.

Agreed. Disgusted at the fact we are even considering him.

Is a key to this side when he is on the park doing something. That occurred maybe 3 times this year.

He was the pioneer of the fast running, pressuring forward. I know people who came to Melbourne games in 2004 and 2005 just to see him at work.

But now many others, including his brother, are either as good or better than him. Our need to inject pace into our pathetic midfield has not helped his cause, but he is slowly losing his aura. Off field indiscretions don't help either.

Welcome to Demonland. In short: I think a valuable ruckmen are still very important.(ie. Dean Cox, Drew Petrie, R.Campbell, A.Sandilands). Average run of the mill "C" grade ruckman are not that important. (ie. All the ruckman that struggled to be competitive against the Cox's, Petries, etc) . Ie Cloke, Simmonds, Jamar.

Campbell is a nothing ruckman, our perception of him is increased thanks to the bevy of stars he has at his feet.

Simmonds is better than Campbell, but neither is an 'A grade' ruckman.

Dean Irving mark II ?

He looked terrible at the G against Jamar. But in reality it was a typical game.

Here are the stats of Jamar and Seaby in 2008. They're remarkably similar and Jamar probably edges him

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?Se...s=1368%2C373%2C

No thanks.

Don't forget that Seaby gets less game time than Jamar. Seaby is a no. 2 ruckman, Jamar is a no.1. I guess there's room to improve when you've been stuck behind a much better ruckman for your whole career.