Wiseblood

More money now frees up to throw at top line free agents like... Oh, wait...

Olisik is either Ben Kennedy himself or has one of the biggest man crushes on him in history. Every chance he gets he claims we need to draft him or he just throws him into the side as one of our picks. It's a little... creepy... As for the topic - would love to have Wellingham at Melbourne.

The draft comparison is not valid. Look at the failures many clubs have made in the draft over the last 5-7 years when it comes to Top 20 picks. I'd like to make it clear that I wouldn't be completely happy giving up Pick 13 for Caddy and, like I've mentioned (but it's been ignored as everyone is now narrow minded on the fact that "OMG we can't take Caddy at #13 he's done nothing" train of thought) there could be other aspects to a deal before it's even done. We could trade Pick 13 for a player and Pick 17 for example and so forth until we had the pick we thought was fair... if, as reported, we have some interest.

And we all know how important a B&F finish is. Just ask Tom Scully. If we can do better then name them. I agree that we need to make sure the price is right, but in the end there isn't much the Suns can do. Caddy is out of contract and they will need to take something.

There are just as many players over the years who have been flops as well as guns within the Top 10, so it's not better to assume at all. If the price is right, and only if it's right, we should take him. Your belief that taking a punt on a player this year is flawed.

Clubs would have coughed up more but he wanted out, only wanted Collingwood and they let him walk, knowing that he would end up there. Entirely different scenario. The Pies didn't need to offer anything. Caddy has proven he can play at the highest level. He hasn't been outstanding or set the world alight but he has shown he can do it. He has proven that. And those other talented kids haven't proven they will be better than him either. IF the club wants him then they will offer what they believe is appropriate. If the Suns don't like it then they can trade him elsewhere. Pick 13 is the mark that most believe the club will offer if they want him, whether we like it or not. But then we might trade down a little with that pick to claim somebody else and then shoot that pick to the Suns for Caddy or whatever. There is alot of water to go under the bridge before any deal is done.

Pick 3 is not a compo pick, therefore it is the pick that we will be forced to use if GWS or GC nominate Viney as the compo picks we have CANNOT be used for a F/S. If we trade Pick 3, leaving Picks 4 and 13 it means Viney will have to be taken in the second round no matter who nominates him.

True but with Tarrant retiring and the Collingwood midfield already in great nick that trade makes no sense from a Collingwood point of view. Giving up a needed defender for another midfielder? Highly doubt that would happen.

But then the same thing could have been said two years ago - "Why all the love for player X? I'd rather go for Caddy, loved his videos, he looks the goods, make him a Demon!!" None of the above players would be certainties to make it. No-one ever is really. I'd rather take a kid with two years in the system (for the right price) than gambling on another young kid. Caddy hasn't set the world alight, you are right on that, but everyone knows he has some serious footballing talent. He just needs the right club to bring it out.

So Collingwood are going to give us Wellingham AND a second rounder just for Martin? While I think the boy can play he is not worth that much. Jumbo - His 3 games in the middle of the year against Brisbane, Richmond and Freo were terrific, where he averaged 20 disposals, 7 marks over 20 hit outs and kicked 4 goals. Not too shabby for the big fella. True, his following two games against Port and North (where he got injured) were not that flash but to say he was "unflattering" during his games this year is wrong.

Just because someone has been on the list for 5-6 years does not mean that improvement cannot be made. The Juice Newton comparison is not flash, as both are very different players and I would easily suggest that Martin has shown far more in his time at Melbourne than Juice every did. Martin is still a guy who, with the right coaching, can continue to improve upon his game and be a handy component to our side going forward. I know exactly how Neeld wants to develop this team and, like I said earlier, Martin would not have been playing in the side if Neeld felt he wasn't doing what was asked of him, plain and simple.

You can take the first two out. Clearly you haven't watched him play closely enough. So let's have a discussion on your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Martin, when fit this season, played in every game possible. Neeld showed us all that, if you didn't do exactly what was required of you, then you would be dropped from the side. Sam Blease knows this. Brent Moloney knows this better than any. IF Neeld believed that Martin was lazy, wasn't chasing, wasn't putting in the 1%ers then he wouldn't have been so quick to play him. It's that simple. He would have played Spencer or even given Fitzpatrick more of an opportunity if he wasn't doing the basic team things that are now, finally, essential to our side. There is still plenty of improvement to come in his game and other teams wouldn't, supposedly, be so interested in acquiring him if they didn't believe he had plenty to offer. Unless we get a large offer for him that's too good to refuse then he is well worth holding on to and seeing that improvement come over the next few seasons.

And you know this how... ?

Are you suggesting Martin doesn't do the 1%ers that Neeld expects from his players?

I'd be disappointed to see Rivers leave as I think he still has plenty to offer and, when he had a few years of injury problems, the club stuck by him. Can understand why he would leave but would have hoped to have seen a little more loyalty. The problem for us is that there will be a number of teams interested, Geelong and St. Kilda are the two who come to mind, and they are in a better position than us and can probably offer him a contract that would be around the mark of what we can offer. It would be a real shame to see him leave, and like I said a bit more loyalty would have been nice, but I understand his position.

Read a very small article on Caddy in the HUN today - on the back page of the sport in the Stevo and Ralphy section. They mention that Vic clubs are having a hard time deciphering what he is worth on the open market, taking into account his B&F finish and his 3 possession game, as well as his 15 goals and 334 possessions for the season and his exceptional character. They then say that Geelong are leading the race at this stage from us, and that the Suns have no interest at all in what Essendon would have to offer. Now take it how you will - not saying we will or won't get him and there is no mention of what the club would offer. Just thought it was something a little interesting and that it sounds as though we are very much interested, and in the race, to potentially secure his services for next season.

You don't sign a new contract if you want to leave the club. No sarcasm.

I can understand it - our fans are greedy. We have been poor for so long that we feel we MUST take as many supposed guns in the draft as possible and that we must not take someone who may not be the clear cut third or fourth best player in the draft, even though he bleeds red and blue, is the best in and under player in the draft and will be a walk up start in Round 1. He will be another player who will help to change our culture and he has leadership written all over him. Why do we overlook him? Because we are greedy and we feel we must take a Grundy or a Toumpas because others say we should. It's ridiculous. Look at how we've gone up this end of the draft in recent years. It's not flash. We all know that. Yet we are still sucked in to this thinking that we have to overlook Viney for someone else because Viney may not be rated at 3, but instead be rated at 6-8. Morton was taken at 4. Dangerfield 10, then Rioli 11. That's only one example but proof that a Top 4 selection will not always become what we want them to be. We have as close to a sure thing as we will ever get in Viney. Melbourne will know this and take him at 3 IF we are forced to do it, and we as fans should be jumping for joy that we have landed exactly the player we need.

We will take him. You can pull quotes and assumptions out of anywhere you like but we will take Viney at #3 IF we are forced to do that. We take him, then get one of the three you mentioned with #4, then another good player at #13 and so on, depending on trades and so forth. We know we are getting a young gun in Viney. Why wouldn't you go with that? Some recruiters had Cale Morton as the #1 pick of the draft back in 2007. You might have been waffling on about him and how we should take him just because he had a better year. While there are no sure things in football, Jack Viney is as close as we will get. Big win for us no matter where we take him.

With the Hun reporting that Tippett is pretty much on the way out of Adelaide would they be interested in making a play for Martin? If we felt as though we had cover and we could live without him we might be able to land something of value if he is in demand come the trade period. I still think the bloke has some real talent and he can play a role for us going forward but wouldn't be surprised to see him moved on.

Garry said a "big" Melbourne team... so clearly not us...

I wouldn't mind if it IS us - there are many players who have shown that they are happy by their leadership and by re-signing with the club. If they were unhappy then they wouldn't have stuck around. The ones who will be unhappy are the ones who got it easy during the Dean Bailey era and are now being asked to work much harder than they want to.

No, it means we got Jack Viney and Pick #13 for Scully. Viney will be better than Scully and we can then add a good kid at Pick #13 as well, not to mention Pick #4 as well. Win.

I think he has a valid point though. Your comments suggest you know something or you have some inner knowledge about how Martin trains and works at the club. At least mention that or say you are assuming that Martin is like that.

I still think it's all a bluff from the Suns. They will either send the pick to the Crows for Tippett or take someone like Toumpas or Grundy in the draft and Viney will slip through to our second rounder. We are due some luck after all...