Jarka

I see next year as a continuation of a transition phase for us. Our biggest concern is our spine, Neitz will continue to slow down and we'll continue to try every man and his dog to fill the hole at CHF. Our backline will begin to play more as a unit however we'll still struggle to contain the bigger forwards. The midfield group will match it against anyone else however we'll lack experienced depth in our rotations, but the thing that will make or break it for the mids are the injured list. If Bruce, Moloney, McLean and Sylvia can complete a full pre-season and play most of the year then we should do ok in the centre (Did I see that Grimes has stress fractures in the back!?!). In the ruck we'll be badly exposed with White also slowing down and Meesen still in the process of just trying to play consistent footy. We'll most likely finish in the bottom four however the team will have taken great strides for the future. At the end of the year we'll have some major retirements in Neitz, White, Robertson and JMac. Bruce will get traded for a first round pick and Holland, Warnock, Jamar, Weetra and PJ will all be delisted.

I'll give a rating in 3 years time....seriously though how can we possibly make a judgement before any of them have played a game?

Only time can answer that question

I'm pretty sure that Geartner is too young to be picked up as a rookie.

You guys are being harsh on Masten, that kid is going to be an absolute gem. I seem to remember people saying the same thing about Brock McLean before he was drafted too.

That's pretty tough on Masten, he's a gun midfielder. I'm with brey, I think th etop 3 is actually Cotchin, Masten and Morton but time will tell. I'mpretty sure though that if the eagles took Morton @ 3 we would have ended up with Masten with exactly the same comments being made in this thread....

Out of interest which of top 3 do you think he's better than?

Like Grimes, this is Maric's descriptions from the consildated profiles thread on bigfooty... Addam Maric - 18 April 1990, 179cm 80kg. Vic Metro/Calder/Greenvale "Recruiter 1: Addam performed very well against the odds. He played up to his ability although we would like to see him play more regularly through the midfield. He has good kicking skills and his kicking efficiency is excellent. He only needs limited possessions to have an impact on the scoreboard. " "Recruiter 2: He continually finds the ball and was one of Victoria Metro's few players to make an impact on the scoreboard. Unfortunately, he went off with a shoulder injury late in the game. I hope he recovers for the next match. " "Kevin Sheehan: A small forward/midfielder who kicked eight goals in the championships, including four against Victoria Country in the final game, Maric is a long and accurate kick at goal and displays pin-point accuracy with his snapshots. He provided his team with ball-winning ability through the midfield. " "Weaver: I just don't see a specialist FP going early. His midfield work doesn't impress me at all. A lot of his best goalkicking efforts have been effectively as a leading FF. " "AFL Insider: AFL Positions: He is ahead of most prospects when it comes to foot skills and his Football IQ is an asset too. Obviously he can be very damaging in the forward line, an AFL team might also want to use his abilities in the back line as he could handle the kickout duties. Maric also has midfield skills and can read the hitouts well so a team might use him in the middle too. Perfect Fit For: Essendon might be a destination that Maric is pleased with. The Bombers could also use his skills up forward. They have the big forwards, and some quicker players to pressure defenders, and they could use a skilful player to provide a different option. Bewick and Mercuri used to play that role and Maric has a lot in common with those two players. **********.net prediction: With his accuracy in front of goal he is a unique prospect, but there will be some questions about how often he will get the ball to have a shot. The draft camp testing could be very important to his draft position, as a good sprint result could show he can get the ball on the lead as a forward in the AFL, and the endurance test might determine how much he could play in the middle too. The Crows can't kick goals, so Maric might be their choice in the second round. AFL Fantasy Outlook: As he is one of the prospects with the most skills, he could be extra useful in fantasy games that rate possessions on efficiency. He won't need a lot of opportunities to get a couple of goals per game, as he is extremely accurate when kicking for goal, so that should translate into fantasy points in all types of fantasy games. Most likely a fantasy forward, he could be the best option for the cheap fantasy players at that position. " "AFL Insider: They will have to replace Shannon Grant in a few years, and Maric might be his clone. A small player who can have a big impact in the forward line, Maric doesn't miss very often when he has a shot for goal. The Kangaroos will have to figure out a new structure for their forward line in 2008. With Thompson returning from injury, and an improvement from Hansen, they could have more size to use. With Hale and Petrie too, as well as the marking ability of Edwards and Jones, there will need to be skilful small players around to make the forward line function. Maric should not only score a few goals for the Kangaroos if they draft him but he should also assist in many more. The Kangaroos have not had a lot of success in recent times with trading high draft picks for veteran players, but this year it could be a good time to try it again. If they believe that they were very close to getting to a Grand Final, they might want to add the extra player or two via a trade who can take them that next step in 2008. The Kangaroos could also trade for veteran help by sending out one of their young talls, like Brad Moran or Hansen. "

Various bigfooty posts from the consolidated profiles thread... Jack Grimes (Ruck Rover / HBF) - 11 May 1989, 187cm 76kg. Vic Metro/Northern/Hurstbridge "Weaver: He is a little one-paced and his kicking is a bit hit and miss. That said he wins the ball, goes hard and reads play superbly. A really smart footballer with leadership abilities and a competitive streak. Always finds a way to contribute. Even on his bad days he can snag a goal, make a spoil or tackle and stay involved. Doesn't let his mistakes put him off his game - straight back in for more action. You'd love to have him as a teammate - maybe not enough genuine quality for AFL tastes. Would like to see him arch his back and take people on more - tends to take what the game offers him as oppossed to really make things happen. " "Recruiter 1: Jack Grimes played quite well - he certainly led by example as captain. Both he and his Northern Knights teammate, Matthew Kreuzer, would be able to say that they applied themselves in the manner that you expect at this level. He read the play well and chipped in with two goals. Overall, we were satisfied with his contribution to the game. " "Recruiter 2: Grimes had an impact at various times during the game, so it was good to see him play well at this level. It was a pity that some of his teammates didn’t follow his example. " "Kevin Sheehan: Medium forward/defender who displays outstanding leadership abilities and versatility. Grimes has clean ball-handling skills and makes good decisions. He is also effective around goals. " "ant555: Jack Grimes-187cm,76kg,Northern Knights- Is not quick and his skills are not outstanding but he is hard at it and reads the play very well. He is always in the game trying to block or shepherd or tackle and shows some leadership skills in the way he gets around to pump up his team mates. He doesn’t let up and gives what looks like his best all day long. He is pretty clean with his ball handling and doesn’t fumble . Has played at half back / half forward and in the middle. " "VinnieVagas69: Collingwood need to address the midfield, and most importantly the aging and declining Scott Burns, Shane O'Bree and Paul Licuria. Jack Grimes does that. He's a relatively solid pick, and while he may not have the physical talents, he is a vocal leader, and he goes about his footy the right way. Good size for an inside role at AFL level at 187cm, and has reasonable skills for a player as almost exclusively inside as he projects to be at AFL level. Most of all, this is a character pick - This is a kid who has his head on right, goes in tough, and won't fail for lack of trying. McEvoy was strongly considered to solve the backup ruck issue, but ultimately I went with the midfield, and particularly a guy in Grimes who may be able to contribute as of 2008. " "AFL Insider: AFL Positions: He is a midfield leader, making smart decisions and doing what his team needs. He should spend a lot of time in the centre square. But if his AFL team needs him to play as a defender or forward he would be able to contribute there too. Perfect Fit For: The Crows are starting to lose some of their bigger bodies in the middle to retirement. Grimes would bring size, leadership and intensity. **********.net prediction: He might still be around when Richmond make their priority selection. Assuming they went big with their earlier pick, Grimes might be taken with Richmond's second pick in the draft. AFL Fantasy Outlook: He will be a player that fantasy coaches think about signing in 2008. Plenty of possessions and tackles, some occasional goals, his fantasy points could be good in 2008. He is a bit taller than some midfielders, and can also get into space in the middle, so his marks totals could add up too. Grimes should play plenty of AFL games next season, no matter who drafts him. " "Mr Cat: Jack Grimes, 188 cm. B Grade Utility. Not a midfielder at AFL level. Leadership outstanding, quality head on his shoulders. Not an outspoken leader- he leads by actions. Runs 15 on the beep and does a 20 in under 3, but is relatively one paced throughout the game (IMO 20 m sprints' overrated at DC- tell me when do players sprint off a STANDING START on a b-ball court- not AFL specific). He isn't a bad kick but decision making is a worry (doesn't seem to hit enough targets). Typical 15-20 possy a game flanker at the next level. He has supporters in the right places which will see him as a top 20." "AFL Insider: Buckley and Burns should be back next season, maybe Licuria is too, but the Magpies know they need to add some youth to the midfield. Grimes has size for the position, a very good understanding of the game and leadership qualities. Dale Thomas is all about skills, Pendlebury is defined by his athleticism, Grimes would bring determination and football smarts, giving Collingwood three young stars who compliment each other and form a great team. The Magpies also need to draft at least one ruckman, and while there will be a few options for that spot here it might be better if they use their second round pick on a ruckman and add a quality smaller player in the first round. That could change if the Magpies find a ruck prospect that they really want, and looking at all the recent success they have had in the draft, there won't be many questioning their choice. "

Nice work Diablo and Y_M!!

Good get!!

I'm not sold on Rance, query on his defensive skills, which for a full back is a worry. Grant seems to be an interesting one though.

You've summed the situation up perfectly

McGinnity @ 14 would sure be a gamble, although spending a high pick on a run with type seems a little early.

Ya reckon?

I haven't seen alot of the WA players, can you please ask Stevo what he thinks of Myers, specifically in comparison to Masten and Palmer.

The 70% figure was a CAC quote taken from a recent article. Make no mistake, CAC is a fine recruiter (now one of the best), however, it's taken him a long time to get there. This is best illustrated by Bailey's comments with his 'build the team list on the u23's' attitude. I'd also be interested to see the comparison of his first 5 years to his last 5, my guess is that the latter would be far superior. The other issue which I wasn't happy about was the drafting of players with leadership qualities, which is another area that he's improved in over the last half of his career. If you look at our current list we're devoid of any stand out leaders who are over 23 (whereas Rivers, McLean and Jones all look to be capable of turning into excellent leaders) With Dunn I disagree with you, he was drafted as a KPP and it's a fair assumption to make that he'll never be one, I'm also not convinced that he will become a good player. This season he had 3 decent games, however two of them were against an opposition who were simply not interested in winning and hence there was very little pressure applied on us. His other issue is where to play him? He's not a KPP, I seriously doubt whether he has the class to play as a 'small forward' and he doesn't have the engine to play in the midfield - this was shown by Riley trying him as a tagger. Ideally he could develop into an Andrew Embly style of midfielder however he has a long way to go to get even close to that level. If we're counting Dunn as a success then we're in alot more trouble than I thought.

tsk tsk tsk That's about it.

Our list is the last of our problems? It seems we differ in opinion on this. I see us as having improved our financial position considerably over the last 3 years, a wonderful opportunity to finally have a home base at Olympic Park which will have start of the art equipment and facilities, record membership, a CEO who has driven out the dead wood and the approval of the AFL as they check our books and happily reduced our CBF payments as was originally planned 3 years ago. /shrug

Far too early to make a judgement on Frawley, however I've previously counted his pick as a (potential) success for CAC, his only KPP success in the first round, 1 one from 5 in years - Lamb, Molan, Smith, Dunn and Frawley. Even though Dunn will play over 50 games (CAC's criteria for success) he is not a KPP. If you look at all his KPP picks he's had one true success - Rivers. Newton and Frawley are possibles but both have a long way to go. My personal opinion is that CAC is now a great recruiter, it's just a pity we've had to endure about 7 years of 'learning the ropes'

re: petterd, I heard that as well.

Have you ever heard a recruiter say that they were unhappy with their picks? I'm pretty sure Bate was a little bit of a slider, alot had him in the top 10, Dunn was definitely early.

By talking to blokes who see them play alot, and the fact that you're assuming it's from bigfooty tells me that your arguments are based purely on assumptions and not on fact. I'm not referring to Bate, he's not a KPP (I've already posted this, it gets very boring having to repeat myself over and over again because people don't read. I'm talking about our first round KPP's. Do you really believe that Molan was expected to go in the first round of his draft?

Actually, the opening post was all about CAC's record, so I have no idea where you got the idea that this thread 'turned' into anything...

Interesting discussion. What do you think were the reasons for our failure for the previous three seasons where we were bundled out of the finals with barely a fight? Sometimes I feel that our club is all to eager to look for excuses as a reason for our failures.