Chris

Not so sure I would call what we have been doing 'rebuilding', up until a couple of years ago that is, What we did before then is more like stagnating, or even demolition, not sure any real building was actually ever done.

Sylvia was never overweight, he made sure he looked great on the beach and was shredded for stereo every year!

Have my reservations on this one. The highlights clip is seriously impressive but it really appeared he was playing a grade below where he should have been or an age group below. He seems big, strong, and had heaps of time to do what he liked. If it has been that way for him for his junior life then he is in for a rude shock at AFL level where he will be small (at least initially). Hopefully he comes through and delivers the goods but I will wait and see before getting too exited.

I would put Salem ahead of Brayshaw for his silky skills.

Some people seem to like to treat assumptions and rumour as fact. The only fact we have is that the trade has happened and we gave up pick 25. How that came about is pure conjecture of which we have no idea. Who knows, the dons may have been asking for a first round pick like they are with Carlisle, wouldn't surprise me as they are renowned for over valuing their players and not getting anything done because of it.

Harsh on Cross, served a purpose which was and still is highly valued by the club, so much so he is still there. Never undervalue his influence over the players or where the club is going. Also very harsh on Frost, the bloke did something to his toe and couldn't get on the park. Hardly a fail, but not a success yet either, too early to tell.

Strongly suggested is right but it is not definitive. How do we know this to be the case, knowing Essendon they were probably after our first round pick this year and next and the first born of the current playing list. We may have beaten them down to this. No point getting angry over what we don't actually know.

Never heard of the bloke as I don't listen to much radio, but it is not me.

No one has been seen to have done anything to take this seriously from the AFL. They way this has been handled is a joke and WADA won't let it go until such time as it is taken seriously and the AFL come into line with the rest of the world.

We also created a new one for the lowest crowd at Etihad, but that one is on us, not the players

You missed the part about who you would replace him with. I am happy to lose him if it is a gain, I haven't seen one argument where we gain from it, except draft picks, which aren't a gain either.

Really struggle with the dislike of Garland. He certainly isn't perfect but he is easily in our best 22. If you want to get rid of him put up a viable replacement that would be an improvement! Grimes I see as a first drop defender to cover for any injuries. Again, is you want him gone then who plays that role?

Not sure the cats will look to us again, Rivers has worked for them but I don't think the same can be said for Clark and Bleese.

Part of running business is repairing these things though. they are not separate, they are one and the same, and any good business manager will identify that and get to work to do so.

I agree with what you are saying and think we need all of that. I just put it in a business context. For the club to be successful as a business we need to provide those things because if we don't then the supporters lose that connection and the club loses money and doesn't survive. The AFL are slowly waking up to this and the club is now in hands I trust to start bringing these things back. It is the same with people selling things, if you look at cars people have a emotional irrational connection to certain brands. The brand will do what ever they can to keep that connection, all for the bottom line. It is a step to take to realise that you are a customer but it is the way it is and needs to be for the club to survive.

So it is a business that needs to look after its customers (us) in order to be successful and we both agree that the club in the past and the AFL haven't been very good at that. PJ is getting better at this but the supporters should not be running the club and should have no more say than your average shareholder in how the club is run. It is still about the bottom line and everything you have listed affects that and if managed well keeps everyone happy and makes the club survive. Not only is an AFL club a business it is a big business with a turn over of many millions.

I am not narrowing it down to demographics, what I said was "So that would be the private school TYPE boys club culture" note the 'type'. Drawing parallels to what it was like, not what it was, although there is some of the private school boys club thrown in for good measure. It all points to the attitude, from someone who has seen how the private school boys club works from all angles I can say that it is like what was going on at the club, even down to the example you portray. I also disagree with you about the club not being a business, that is what it is and what it must be to survive. The key is to put the right people in because they know what they are doing, not because they know the right people. PJ fits that bill as he has run a successful club as a business before.

We have very different memories of Davey then

So that would be the private school type boys club culture I have been speaking about then. Thanks for clearing it up.

You are right on the time frame and I changed my post to reflect that. Don't necessarily agree with the arrogance tag, more entitled and definitely a boys club through and through. Comes back to the private school boys running the place, they think it is like business where who you know is as important, if not more so, than what you know. That doesn't work in football and you get found out, as we have been many times. I think the new regime are going a long way to removing this crap. On another note, I wouldn't lump Davey in with the bunch of footballers who wouldn't tackle or chase, he is credited with inventing the modern version of forward pressure by doing those exact things.

The boys club at work!

And that culture is one of entitlement which has in the past been lead from the top, hence I say it is off field although it probably started before I stated. It was not however lead by the players, or the coaches, it came from the boys club on the board.

Yes, the problem is driven by off field issues. this started when we sacked a coach who was doing ok (Norm smith or the rev, take your pick), only to then sack his replacement, who was also doing OK. We had a management team in place that bought in tanking, could make money to save themselves, was very much stuck in a boys club mode where everything will be OK in the end, and they ran us into the ground. They also oversaw the sacking of all our experienced players, including our captain. Something we rue to this day as what we have clearly lacked is experience guiding the players, St Kilda have it, the dogs have it, and look at how they are going! Going with youth is only good to a point, you need the wise heads around. Look at the difference between GC and GWS for more evidence. Our players lack knowledge of what is required and have had their confidence smashed as a result. Add to this a development team that has to be the worst in AFL history, and a recruiting department who were OK, but not great, and made to look worse by appalling development and things go from bad to worse. Then Jimmy came in a cleared the debt (only to go into debt sacking more people) but he was still bound by the boys club, but to a lesser degree than others. Then the board made their worst mistake, hiring Neeld. Neeld may well have actually been an OK coach, he was not good at reading a groups of players and managing them, he lost them before he coached his first game, and if not then then he certainly did after it. The less said about this period the better, suffice to say we continued going backwards from when the rev was sacked. Then came the sacking of Neeld, to me this is the beginning of the resurrection. From around this point we have a CEO in place who knows what he is doing, we have a recruiting team in place who are doing a great job, we have a development team in place who so far seem to be doing very well with the likes of Brayshaw, Salem, Watts (the fact he needs development is an indictment of how bad the previous development team were), and others, we have a coaching panel in place that is stable (although many on here seem to be thinking Roos should go, massive mistake purely due tot he instability it would create) with the players knowing who is coaching for the next 4.5 years. Yes we are bad, but we are getting better, we are just coming from miles back due to the reasons listed above. The biggest of which was removing the experienced players, not only have we missed the experience but we have had to use draft picks and trades to bring other experience back in to the team! How about for once in this clubs history we actually stick out a plan to the end instead of jumping off half way because it doesn't look good, and then having to start all over again!

I don't think Jack made him cry, I think it was something else he wanted to do to Jack!

Amazing that two hours after the game there are only two posts on this thread. I am used to two pages in the first hour after a game! I guess Garland, Watts, Howe, Dawes and co can keep their jobs this week.