Rhino Richards

Trade one of the ruckman that has some value. (I'd trade PJ for the right deal). Otherwise, we have dead wood on the list. I just cant see us doing a payout.

2004. The top 7 in 2004 really give the Top 7 2003 are run for their money. 2004 2003 Deledio Cooney Roughhead Walker Griffen Sylvia Tambling Ray Franklin McLean Williams Bradley Lewis Tenace I would have gone top 8 but Adelaide took Meesen at No 8 in 2004 *COUGH* Franklin was always viewed as good talent but was sense as a loose cannon off the ground. He could still go pear shaped off the ground. If he had a more mature disposition, he would have gone higher/earlier in the draft.

Fair enough :D

Given Bailey was PA assistant coach in a two team AFL mad town, he would have surely had some awareness or disposition of Meesen at the Crows or in the SANFL. I think Bailey has partial responsibility. In regard to DB's comments. I would suggest that he is saying the bleeding obvious about Meesen. MFC cant afford a pay out any contract so they should see what they can get out of him for the rest of the time. I hope the contract is not significant in $$$$. It should not be.

Every time Franklin gets the ball and Tambling does not!

Richmond built up a powerful supporter base from 1967 to 1980 when they 5 flags. I believe there are alot of silent supporters at Richmond. I think their membership has plateaued around 30,000 for some time. If they were to turn the corner I think numbers will improve. However they wont do it with Wallet in the seat. Despite some improved performances they still have a crud list with some key deficiencies.

And so you should... ...especially when you keep trying to misrepresent my statements. Shame on you.

Bub, I dont need to back away or distance myself because my position has been clearly outlined and consistent. I only reinforced to make it clear to you. I am glad you finally got it. I am also glad you have not denied misrepresenting my position. But the "you started" line is very much a response of a 7 to 8 yo child. At present, my comment on one off cameos is in reference to how AFL clubs currently couch much of their local community involvement. Its takes more than that. Many clubs have not worked that out. I have always conceeded that the Casey initiative is a necessary and worthwhile initiative. I just think for MFC to be in a financial position to commit time and resources to Casey to provide the necessary community involvement and develop the necessary nexus for the Casey community to feel involved in MFC that will bear significant reward to MFC will take a long long time. At present, there is no nexus. We are planning on using it as a Summer training base and a possible allegiance with Casey in the VFL. Its a small start. But we have to go from being nothing in the area to something that is relevant to the Community. Its takes time and will take a far deeper relationship by MFC that what is envisaged at this point. Dont worry about the big picture Bub. I see it more clearly than you will ever aspire too.

Its the most boring football TV event going around. I rather kids watch Freo.....hang on! "Daddy, why do all the women have blonde hair and fake tans?" :D

It merely suits your position to continually insiinuate that I credit kids with only being focussed on winning. I have not, so please dont continue to push that silly line because its not true. I will put it simply...... 1. Kids prefer to go to the footy and support and be interested in a team that is winning rather than losing. Simple. Its part of the experience they enjoy. They dont enjoy watching losing teams in any sport and they dont understand it. It a better experience for them if the team they follow wins as opposed to losing. Its not about being only focussed on winning just a preference from the experience. 2. Connection and camraderie with kids will only develop through a sustained involvement at local club level. One off cameos at footy clinics are not enough to win kids to any resounding change of heart. Kids are smarter and more capable than that. 3. The Casey option is a worthwhile initiative (I have said this before a number of times. Why do you repeatedly saying I am ignoring it Bub? Thats just being silly again.) but unless point 2 is acheived the impact will only be small and for any lasting community connection may indeed to take at least a decade or a generation. We have to tap the mine but its likely that the gold is lower than everyone expects and will take some considerable financial commitment up front over time to extract.

Cut the cliche about the "win,win,win". For kids of that age its the experience of the involvement in the playing of the game. However for a team they support they will find it difficult to hold that support where the team is perennially last and losing. Its just not an enjoyable experience for them particularly when it happens week after week. They dont want to go to games. Cameo appearances by AFL players at one off footy clinics do not represent the effort that is required to develop camaraderie. For junior footballer its the parents and others that are visible and present as team managers, coaches, runners and clubman that create the real camaraderie Barracking is about more than winning...but under 10s dont fully understand that at their stage in life particularly when it comes to supporting an AFL team. In fact from poor attendances at MFC games, I think a few adults struggle with it too. And dont bang on about different experiences. They're really the same and you are just nit picking to support a flimsy argument. The Brownlow Medal is all part of the AFL blur of interest with kids. Its not a specific or special pinnacle for them at that age no matter how we are apt as adults to define it.

It was a poor act from a player who has still been an effective player for Freo this year. The severity of the injury is part of it. The fact he was hit so far off the ball with a raised elbow compounded the problem. A fair and just result. However it is a bit rich to say that Freo prescribed that action. FWIW, Freo could hardly lay an effective tackle. Please no Carroll. His physical bravado is lame brained, poorly executed and a detriment to the team. Leave him at Sandy thanks

You miscbnstrued my post for your own needs. I only referred to winning or losing in regard to AFL teams not their own team or what they do at a clinic. Its great they like the Grand Old Flag but it does not result in high Auskick registrations suggesting they follow Melbourne. That's the point. If MFC is going to make any footprint in Casey its going to take a sustained and committed involvement over a long long period to develop the required regional support that some salivate over. It wont be done by one off visits at a football clinic. The Brownlow Medal is neither here nor there for kids. Few of that vintage would be able to name the past three winners ....regardless of what you think.

Touche on that!

Gee, I wish I had thought of that! B)

I can tell you now from the observations of 8 and 10 years olds over a period of time, your view holds little water. The kids I have observed through my children's school, junior sporting teams etc have had coaching clinics with AFL footy players and some of the kids have fathers who are ex AFL players or are still actively involved in AFL coaching aere also involved. The kids are not so swayed by the close quarters stuff when it is just a one off visit. They talk about and focus on the simple winning and losing situation and ladder positions. They are more focussed on footy scores. There is little enduring interest about the Brownlow medal and who has won it.

Freo is in an AFL made two club state so the great majority of kids realistically are either going to follow WCE or Freo. It also has a strong legacy and history within the Freemantle region. They have it on a plate regardless of their losing culture. Is there are a more well known club/brand than Collingwood? Collingwood carries a unique history and culture that has provided high recognition of the famous jumper backed by unrivalled success with 13 premierships (last in 1990) and more grand final appearances (last in 2003) than any other club. Its been a well run well supported club and has been for a long time. They have the greatest sporting tradition and culture of any club in Australia. Opposition have hated and marvelled at this tradition as far back as the 1920s. MFC have few if any of those aspects that Freo and Collingwood have. How many of the 29,619 members are $50 a year winners or are a free child membership on the back of an adult membership? How many of those members spend further money on Club functions and souvenirs etc? That's the questions that should be asked.

Too much on output to date!

MFC has no historical or logical connection with Casey up to the point it decided it had training facilities. Melbourne is saturated for AFL support and we are competing with AFL supporters/followers who already have entrenched allegiances. For new residents, there is no certainty that they will adopt AFL as part of their assimiliation to Melbourne an if they did they will take on Melbourne. Until MFC clears the debt there is limited scope for MFC to effectively and substantively commit to involve itself in the community there. We still have not formed an alliance with the local AFL team. Even then I am not sure it will provide any significant upside in the near term. How many more Hawthorn supporters are there in Mulgrave since the Hawks moved there. I welcome the initiative but I would not be surprised if it takes up to a generation of effort to bring forth any substantive rewards. By that time my kids and their friends will be pushing 30 and hopefully MFC has won a flag or six by then.

No value whatsoever. Best hope if he comes good next year. Otherwise he is off the list when his contract ends. Heard a comment that he had a 3yr contract but dont quote me on it. If so and he was not much chop next year, I would get him to do a Nicho and retire by end of 2009

Davey has a history of hamstring injuries and given the way he plays its always a possibility. I actually thought he carried a knee injury and looked slow last year. I dont recall him injuring his hamstring. I would put that injury down to a match situation if a player who would have come off with a twinge or a minor ailment was forced to stay because we had no fit interchanges available.

Bub, from the my experience in watching and seeing first hand the interests and preferences of my sons and his friends the only relevance to them is seeing someone win. They're not so bent on associating with name footballers. Casey at this point is just a training ground with little connection of MFC with the area. Most people that have grown up in Melbourne have already some form of AFL allegance. For new arrivals it will take them a decade or generation to make any switch to AFL and then MFC before other Clubs. I understand the need for Casey but I am dubious of the ability of MFC to make a substantive community connection in Casey and to Casey residents to embrace MFC like say Essendon people do to Essendon and Geelong residents do with Geelong. And for MFC supporting parents who dont live near Casey it means diddly squat in trying to convert their kids to the cause.

What success. We were last truly competitive in a final campaign in 2002. Hell, how would you expect anyone under the age of 13 to remember that? And before anyone flames that comment, we made up numbers in the 2004 to 2006 finals campaigns From my own observations, my son who barracks for the Demons does not want to go to games. I have two MFC supporting mates whose sons were "baptised" little demons but are choosing to follow other successful clubs. My son attends an Auskick and another football clinic each week in the Melbourne south eastern suburbs. He also attended a school holiday footy camp at Melb High during the school holidays. There is a huge role out of kids there. More than they can properly handle. There are very, very few MFC supporters in evidence from the team dress worn by the kids. I really sympathise with a young kid who is being indoctrinated with Melbourne ATM. If there is a fair legion of youth supporters that follow MFC then they must be enjoying other sports or pursuits because they are certainly are not evident in the under 13 category. Its a disturbing and a couple of gimmicks will not win them over.

No thats called having your pie that ends up on your lap. B) Have a look at the trade value of ruckman over the past 5 years. We know Richmond will trade to get another ruckman. Warnock is no gimme for MFC. If we cant get him in the PSD, I would give either our 2nd round or PP for him.

How many pets are holding NM memberships? Membership numbers are one thing, the other important things is the mix of members and $$$$ that flow. Also how much additional business (ie function attendance, sales of official clothing, memorabilia) do we sell to those members? The AFL will look through the overall membership numbers and see any financial holes. Taking the overall membership numbers on their own is not the sole or reliable barometer of the financial health of a football club. Our junior membership are a worry. If you get an MCC/MFC membership for $150 you get to nominate a child as a member. Its a free membership with no direct cash flow. How many memberships are like that?