The number of times that a Melbourne player would look up and have no one in the forward half, let alone the forward fifty to kick it to was beyond ridiculous.

And no, Jamar doesn't count.

our ability to go forwad into the 50 is all but non existant. . no structure.. no confidence.. just woeful

our ability to go forwad into the 50 is all but non existant. . no structure.. no confidence.. just woeful

There was no incentive to move the ball forward, because either a "forward" was outnumbered or just not there.

The number of times that a Melbourne player would look up and have no one in the forward half, let alone the forward fifty to kick it to was beyond ridiculous.

And no, Jamar doesn't count.

Its all about run & carry, CB. How would a forwardline help?

Get with the program.

You really are very slow to catch on.

I was fascinated by the new tactic of kicking primarily to a 3/4 to 1 contest in the forward line..yep..thats a winner that one for sure

Yeah, but how good was our backline with 15 Melbourne players trying to block Fevola?

The problem is that we are really struggling to deliver the ball to our forwards, and the opposition rebounds so quickly that half the forward line ends up chasing their opponent into the backline (at least they are sort of chasing now... small victory?). When we do finally deliver the ball with purpose, our forwards can't mark, or worse still, can't kick from 10m out (Jamar, Bruce, Green, Robbo).

And laugh at me all you want, but we missed Miller today. At least he provides a lead between midfield and the forward line. Half the time players would just stand there, instead of providing a real lead.

With no CHF, our FF alternating between slow (Neita), crap (Jamar) or both (Robbo?), and Davey playing up the field, we really have no forwards left to experiment with. At a stretch we could get Green as a permanent forward pocket, Bate to CHF and play White/PJ at FF with Aussie/Davey/Maric as their shadow.

I was fascinated by the new tactic of kicking primarily to a 3/4 to 1 contest in the forward line..yep..thats a winner that one for sure

Even better in a pocket...

We are not that far off, all its takes is 10% better n we would be ok.... I thought our forward line was good when it wasnt flooding and I just think that Davey is much better as a forward than a midfielder... Did anyone see the roos last night? Small forwards can win games, u dont need big forwards to dominate... Neitz is almost finished but Robbo, who finally started to keep his feet, actually tried some second efforts today....

Robbo, who finally started to keep his feet, actually tried some second efforts today....

Just a quick note on that, before Bruce schanked his open run in on goal, Robertson actually managed to keep his feet which allowed him to make a second effort which resulted in Bruce having the shot on goal.

as much as I like the optimism we are a lot further than 10% away form being a team. Litel things like fundamental skills are needed first.. little things like properly weighted kicks.. handballs that are !! ( not to some other point of the univers) ..and we wont start on decision making...thats the advanced class !! lol

And laugh at me all you want, but we missed Miller today. At least he provides a lead between midfield and the forward line. Half the time players would just stand there, instead of providing a real lead.

You might be right, Jaded. But I would prefer to think we missed the KPP that we didn't recruit or didn't make it. At the moment, the perennially injured Matthew Bate appears to be the only solution. We are in deep strife in this regard.

The problem is that we are really struggling to deliver the ball to our forwards, and the opposition rebounds so quickly that half the forward line ends up chasing their opponent into the backline

I think the problem is that there weren't the options there in the first place, and if they were there they were outnumbered and leading to a pocket. Yes, the delivery was poor but even the most skilled players would have trouble kicking it to the advantage of a player with two or three opponents on him.

Someone answer me this.. Im curious.. Whenever we are going for a sert shot for a pocket..or there abouts.. Our setup is one or two near or in square. one or two out from it in and around the top .. .BUT....there is NEVER anyone lurking in the opposite deep pocket ..just in case of overshoot or knock on. This has mystified me for a long time..am I alone in noticing this ?

The problem is that we are really struggling to deliver the ball to our forwards, and the opposition rebounds so quickly that half the forward line ends up chasing their opponent into the backline (at least they are sort of chasing now... small victory?). When we do finally deliver the ball with purpose, our forwards can't mark, or worse still, can't kick from 10m out (Jamar, Bruce, Green, Robbo).

And laugh at me all you want, but we missed Miller today. At least he provides a lead between midfield and the forward line. Half the time players would just stand there, instead of providing a real lead.

With no CHF, our FF alternating between slow (Neita), crap (Jamar) or both (Robbo?), and Davey playing up the field, we really have no forwards left to experiment with. At a stretch we could get Green as a permanent forward pocket, Bate to CHF and play White/PJ at FF with Aussie/Davey/Maric as their shadow.

We did miss Miller for sure - but who was the clown who thought that replacing our CHF with a key defender was a straight swap? Neitz goes down (and hasn't been playing well anyway) and we're back to having a 6"2 key forward and no one else. What a disgrace.

How many weeks must we get caught without a leading target at half forward before the penny drops?

I think the problem is that there weren't the options there in the first place, and if they were there they were outnumbered and leading to a pocket. Yes, the delivery was poor but even the most skilled players would have trouble kicking it to the advantage of a player with two or three opponents on him.

First of all, each team had an extra player in defence, so already you are more than likely going to have a 2-on-1 situation if you take twenty seven minutes to move the ball forward.

There were a few frustrating moments when we really didn't have anyone to kick to, but do you understand that our forwards (everyone actually) are instructed to follow their opponent up the ground? It's a poor effort on our behalf that the forwards didn't work hard enough to run back into the forward line and provide an option when we won the ball.

It's not as if we had a one man forwardline at the centre bounce.

If the players are not willing to work hard going both ways, we won't kick goals. It's not that difficult to understand.

First of all, each team had an extra player in defence, so already you are more than likely going to have a 2-on-1 situation if you take twenty seven minutes to move the ball forward.

There were a few frustrating moments when we really didn't have anyone to kick to, but do you understand that our forwards (everyone actually) are instructed to follow their opponent up the ground? It's a poor effort on our behalf that the forwards didn't work hard enough to run back into the forward line and provide an option when we won the ball.

It's not as if we had a one man forwardline at the centre bounce.

If the players are not willing to work hard going both ways, we won't kick goals. It's not that difficult to understand.

1) There shouldn't be a loose man in defense, it's a negative tactic.

2) By all means players would follow their opponents up the ground if need be, but not all six of them. If Melbourne were to turn the ball over I can guarantee that Carlton's defenders would have been benched had they left Melbourne's forwards on their own.

3) Melbourne had about a three man forward line at the centre bounce. Not good enough.

as much as I like the optimism we are a lot further than 10% away form being a team.

10% at AFL level is the difference between being first or sixteenth.

We did miss Miller for sure - but who was the clown who thought that replacing our CHF with a key defender was a straight swap? Neitz goes down (and hasn't been playing well anyway) and we're back to having a 6"2 key forward and no one else. What a disgrace.

How many weeks must we get caught without a leading target at half forward before the penny drops?

And you'd have recalled the slow and not up to it Newton I suppose ?

The cupboard is bare.

1) There shouldn't be a loose man in defense, it's a negative tactic.

2) By all means players would follow their opponents up the ground if need be, but not all six of them. If Melbourne were to turn the ball over I can guarantee that Carlton's defenders would have been benched had they left Melbourne's forwards on their own.

3) Melbourne had about a three man forward line at the centre bounce. Not good enough.

1) Let Fevola kick 14, sure, great idea. Besides, if Ratten dropped a loose man in defence, it's hardly a clever solution to crowd the forwardline even further by bringing another useless forward in there to man him up.

2) Melbourne players follow their opponent up the ground, if 5 forwards have 5 defenders who are running the other way, then the 5 forwards need to go with them, or the opposition will kick 100 unanswered goals. There was never a situation where 6 Carlton defenders stood in our forwardline with one of Robbo or Neita. Our forwards were trying to stop their opponent from getting a kick up the field and so they should. The same situation happened at the end of the last quarter, when Fevola and Carroll were the only two players in Carlton's attacking 50. It's a tactic, some teams play it well, we don't.

3) Robbo, Neita, Jamar, Dunn, Aussie, Green/Davey ... that's 5/6 not 3.

10% at AFL level is the difference between being first or sixteenth.

That might be true, but if we add an extra 10% lift to our game, we will be playing at 10%, which means we are still along way off!

1) Let Fevola kick 14, sure, great idea. Besides, if Ratten dropped a loose man in defence, it's hardly a clever solution to crowd the forwardline even further by bringing another useless forward in there to man him up.

2) Melbourne players follow their opponent up the ground, if 5 forwards have 5 defenders who are running the other way, then the 5 forwards need to go with them, or the opposition will kick 100 unanswered goals. There was never a situation where 6 Carlton defenders stood in our forwardline with one of Robbo or Neita. Our forwards were trying to stop their opponent from getting a kick up the field and so they should. The same situation happened at the end of the last quarter, when Fevola and Carroll were the only two players in Carlton's attacking 50. It's a tactic, some teams play it well, we don't.

3) Robbo, Neita, Jamar, Dunn, Aussie, Green/Davey ... that's 5/6 not 3.

1) Well Melbourne can be paranoid about the opposition all they want, or they can back their defenders and worry about scoring goals themselves. I know what I would prefer.

2) Again, the opposition are not going to allow a whole forward line to stay on unmanned, becuase it would only take a short run and one long kick from a Melbourne defender to get the ball to their unmarked forwards.

3) Forward line consisted of Neitz/Jamar, Robertson and Aussie for much of the game as Dunn and Davey were predominantly up the ground and not in the tradition forward positions.

10% at AFL level is the difference between being first or sixteenth.

We lack even the basest of skills at many times....thats just 10% is it ?? I think not !!

We lack even the basest of skills at many times....thats just 10% is it ?? I think not !!

I've done the stats for 07. The difference between the best and worst is about 10%. Now you can argue that stats mean nothing, but then so does your guesswork.

<,,,,,...........///??? (make you feel more at home ?)

next week

HF - Wonemarri Bate Davey

F - Maric Green Sylvia

Do it, Bailey!

I've done the stats for 07. The difference between the best and worst is about 10%. Now you can argue that stats mean nothing, but then so does your guesswork.

<,,,,,...........///??? (make you feel more at home ?)

mate.and I mean no disrepect but you can shove all the stats in the world..they are f'n meaningles unless yo apply a quality or context to them !! A Handpass to mid air..is stil la fn'n handpass. .a kick to the grounf 5 mtrs in fornt of the player..is still a kick. ... but they are useless.

Im not using guesswork..just using my bloody eyes.. which tells more more than all uselss bloody stats in the world!!

We dont exhibit the basic skills most of the time..; that s not a stat...THATS A FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!