What type of players are required for the perfect Midfield

1) 2 in and under players

2) 2 outside midfielders with pace and good skills

3) Well built player for pack breaking

4) A tagger

5) A genuine gun inside and outside midfielder

What else am i missing or what else do u guys think needs to changed, and how does the demons under 24's measure up.

1) Mclean, Jones

2) Bate, Buckley, maybe petterd

3) Moloney (assuming he's fit)

4) Batram

5) Potentially Sylvia if he can get his body right

Thoughts.......

Oooo good topic Isotopes.

1) McLean, definitely. Jones is interesting. I reckon he's the right sort of body-type for your 3rd category, and seems to play that way, particularly at 2nd and 3rd stoppages. I would put McDonald in this category as well as McLean (just as an example, even though he is not in the age bracket you specify). High tackle count is probably symptomatic of somebody who is right at the coalface.

2) Sylvia fits this mould, for me. Unfortunately he is the only player I can think of who fits it, which is a sad but fair indictment on our side. He is hard at the ball, but he doesn't win it enough in the clinches to be classified an inside midfielder. He may in time though. Petterd could well be here in a year or two as well. Bate has decent pace but I don't believe his skills are up to outside midfield.

3) Moloney and Jones.

4) Bartram.

5) *Crickets chirping... tumbleweed rolls past*. Potentially Sylvia, as you say, but currently he doesn't play nearly enough in the middle to be considered as this player. I will be VERY interested to see what a pre-season will do to his midfield prospects. Something tells me he doesn't particularly like being a permanent forward, and would relish the chance to play on the ball for extended periods.

5) This space will be filled by either Trent Cotchin or Chris Masten

2) maybe add BODE here seems fast and skilfull in the little i've seen of him

Kudos on two things...

The topic, and the name...

First of all, I think this is a fraction off. If you're going to claim this is the perfect midfield, and then never change it on match day, you're going to get beaten a lot. If you ask me, you have to look at your opposition's list, and then at who is likely to line up for them, THEN pick your perfect midfield. A good idea would have been to allocate the 40 list spots, plus maybe the 4 rookie spots to what category they must fill. But if you are going for a good GENERAL midfield, that is just the midfielders on the field and on the bench, NOT including players like Bell who can pinch hit in the guts, but including our starting wingers... then yeah, that list isn't too bad. But I see weaknesses...

- Bate aint a gun, or career midfielder. I like him bursting the lines, but this year he showed he had form issues there, and was FAR more useful as a forward. Maybe as an occassional winger, in the Goodes mould.

- Buckley hasn't shown THAT much just yet. I'd like to see us recruit a gun outsider with searing pace. He still could be good, but not a star.

- Sylvia... I just don't know. I love it when he plays forward, and seriously think we're going to need him there in coming years. And I don't think he could be the genuine star you talk of. This category is the most pressing, has been for a LONG while.

Otherwise, not too bad...

What type of players are required for the perfect Midfield

1) 2 in and under players

2) 2 outside midfielders with pace and good skills

3) Well built player for pack breaking

4) A tagger

5) A genuine gun inside and outside midfielder

What else am i missing or what else do u guys think needs to changed, and how does the demons under 24's measure up.

1) Mclean, Jones

2) Bate, Buckley, maybe petterd

3) Moloney (assuming he's fit)

4) Batram

5) Potentially Sylvia if he can get his body right

Thoughts.......

1) Mclean, Jones,

2) Buckley, Petterd, Moloney, Sylvia

3) Bate, + --------, ---------,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,vespremi??????????????????

4) Batram, Petterd,

5) ????Cotchin/Ebert??????????, Sylvia,

5) This space will be filled by either Trent Cotchin or Chris Masten

And Ben Cousins will be coming in off the bench....

the midfield for me has 2 wingers (who are flashy outside skilful types), 3 in the guts and 2 on the bench (those 5 need to probably have 1 outside skilful midfielder, 3 in and under and a tagger...

im not sure about the allocation of a genuine all round gun. if the individual players are good enough at what they do you will find that they all become stars. we have jones and mclean in and under. i think sylvia will become a combination player if he gets his body right but probably more outside. moloney might crash and bash, but i think he is more of an outside player, in that his strength is his long kicking, not his ability to win the ball in the clinches. junior is first dibs atm, for his year or two.

what this thread has really hit home for me is that we are lacking any real class and pace outside the midfield. TJ had the class, but was inconsistant, and while he had the agility to avoid the tackles, he didnt have the pace to break the lines. im not sure if i have seen enough from anyone on our list to suggest they could be that player. although i think petterd and bell posses the qualities required to become this player (but do we want to move them out of the backline?).

we dont have a genuine tagger on the list. godfrey wasnt a genuine tagger, but now we have lost him also. i think that could be bartrams job, but if we start to move bartram, petter and bell into the middle who plays back? wheelan? or will he be injured...

Dappa i think you are being a little over critical on what i said, for starters i never claimed it was the perfect midfield and invited people to add missing roles. Of course it would have to be vaired from week to week i think you are looking into it far to much.

Granted some of the players i mentioned don't fitted directly into the mould allocated to them but when i was writing it i was thinking of players that could potentially fill this gap.

As to Buckley i am not sure atm if he will make it, but i have seen glimpses in the few games that he has played that suggest he could fill this role, he certainly has the attributes hieght, speed and good skills.

Bate is the next one, i have two visions of him one he is streaming out packs, or down the wing and then drilling a goal from 55, the other he is a lead up CHF, wheeling around and hitting juice on the lead or kicking a goal with a booming left foot kick. Some people have mentioned you don't need a genuine star or that sylvia might not be the one perhaps your right...... but damn how good would it be to finally have one.

A good idea would have been to allocate the 40 list spots, plus maybe the 4 rookie spots to what category they must fill Dappa if I had the time to do this i still wouldnt do it if you want to show me the perfect list go ahead an do it.

I was just trying to develope the nucleus of the almost perfect midfield.

no one has talked about dunn...maybe he will be the genuine gun...

what this thread has really hit home for me is that we are lacking any real class and pace outside the midfield.

I was thinking that...

Dappa i think you are being a little over critical on what i said, for starters i never claimed it was the perfect midfield

No worries. Didn't mean any offense. Like I said, good topic, and I DO understand the spirit in which it was begun...

However, you claim you didn't say it was the perfect midfield. Then why the title of the thread?

Of course it would have to be vaired from week to week i think you are looking into it far to much.

Yeah. I have that habit. But that's part of the fun isn't it? The truth is I've been mulling over our midfield for some time now. For a while I thought it was pretty good, but I'm not so sure anymore. We have to replace JMac, we need silky outsiders (never thought THAT would be the case, Green, Bruce, Trav) and we could even do with a bit more torque in the clinches, as Moloney is starting to waver a bit. I could have started another thread, but it would have clashed with yours on what was essentially the same topic.

As to Buckley i am not sure atm if he will make it, but i have seen glimpses in the few games that he has played that suggest he could fill this role, he certainly has the attributes hieght, speed and good skills.

Mmm. I dunno about height being THAT important. And yes I've seen some things as well that have made me get excited. Some of his passages in the NAB cup debut he had this year were riveting. But it's all too little. My point is, Judd, who is a star, was at the same age doing incredible things. To be a star, I think you have to be effective, regularly, from a young age. Buckley is taking time, and his form hasn't been all that good. Ultimately he's DEFINITELY worth pursuing, but I'd say he's a way off being a regular just yet. But, hope springs eternal...

Bate is the next one, i have two visions of him one he is streaming out packs, or down the wing and then drilling a goal from 55, the other he is a lead up CHF, wheeling around and hitting juice on the lead or kicking a goal with a booming left foot kick.

Those two visions are the same ones everyone has seen. I saw him dominate a bit through the midfield last year. I had him pencilled in as a midfielder/winger or running defender that was a part-time forward. Lo and behold he got dropped, then came in as an emergency and was EXACTLY as dominant as a CHF. Weird eh? How often do you see that? Who can tell where he'll settle? Maybe his work as a KP forward will mirror the work he did as a midfielder. Maybe he'll plateau and get found out by opposition defenders. Maybe he'll try defence and become TRULY versatile. Who knows? After all is said and done I go for the David Parkin methodology. When you find a good Centre Half Forward, you play him at Centre Half Forward.

Some people have mentioned you don't need a genuine star or that sylvia might not be the one perhaps your right...... but damn how good would it be to finally have one.

I never said you don't need a genuine star. I reckon that's what we've been missing. And I never said Sylvia WOULDN'T be a star, just that it was unlikely. Still possible, but unlikely. And yes, it would be good to have someone to rally behind. But you know what? Even if Judd had been at MFC from the beginning, no-one would rate him. No-one ever rates the Red and Blue players. If McLean was playing with West Coast, or Collingwood he'd be regarded as a star. He's just not high profile enough, in a club that's not high profile enough. Maybe we already have the next Benny Cousins. And maybe the world will be none the wiser throughout his whole career. Maybe we had the next best player to Wayne Carey all along, and his low profile and knee injuries condemned him to media oblivion. Maybe we had the best defender Carey had played on, and he was the captain of a mickey-mouse club... Maybe, maybe, maybe... maybe stars would do us no good at all even if they WERE recruited to the club. Maybe if we build the premiership team, the star will rise naturally.

Dappa if I had the time to do this i still wouldnt do it if you want to show me the perfect list go ahead an do it.

Who would do it? (apart from DB) I dont have the time either. I was just making the point that a perfect midfield was a theory, and is an impractical one. Nothing personal.

I was just trying to develope the nucleus of the almost perfect midfield.

And as I said, I can see what you are trying to do. Hence the comments I made on specific players. I tell you what, I'm fascinated by a STARTING midfield. And I mean a ruckman, rover, ruck-rover and centre. I reckon we have the Rover (Jones) Ruck-Rover (McLean) and possibly the centre all sorted for the next 6-8 years (Moloney, Bartram, pick 4). the ruckman concerns me as always... But yeah, my point is, it was a good topic...

Interesting you should say that nugget, my dad is a saints supporter, but he occassionally watches the demons games with me and he seems to think dunns the one to watch. One things for sure 2008 is going to be an interesting year, particularly from a developement perspective.

Dappa i wasn't directing the bit about needing a genuine star at you, deanox said something along the lines of if everyone plays their part you shouldn't need one and the comment was for him. Aside from that, that is one well constructed post, and i can't say i disagree with any of it.

Buckley's potential was probably wishful thinking on my part, lets hope my wish comes true though B) .

Also about the perfect midfield thing, i was putting a couple of roles down, then you'll notice i said "What else am i missing or what else do u guys think needs to changed", in essence i was inviting everyone else to tell me what they thought the perfect midfield is.

My hope concerning our midfield is that dean bailey can keep the same car but clean away the dirt and rubbish, add some polish, and a turbo (pace, line breaking pace) so to speak.

Apologies if i sounded pompous in my first reply.

Some people have mentioned you don't need a genuine star or that sylvia might not be the one perhaps your right...... but damn how good would it be to finally have one.

i wasnt having a go, i think this is good discussion too. what i was saying was that it is more important to have 7 good solid consistant players than it is to have a 'star'. the star could be the difference, but if you could have yourself one star where would you want it? full back for 10 years? mid field for 10 years? or CHF for 10 years?

No worries Deanox

I would prefer a star full back for 10 years, maybe this is because the dees haven't had a star full back for a long while, and each of the previous priemiers in recent years of had AA or close to fullbacks, with maybe sydney being the only exception.

1) McLean, Moloney

2) Dunn, Buckley

3) Jones

4) Bartram

5) Sylvia

Agree with occo but take out Buckley and change to CJ

Have I missed something in the last six or so months? (Not a rehtorical question, I did actually miss the last 4 rounds)...

Why is it people are thinking of Dunn as a midfielder? Yes he CAN play there, on a wing ONLY but he's not exactly suited to it. I see him more as a roaming marking target, like a HFF that comes up past the centre of the ground, though he may need a bit more time to develop his overhead work.

Have I missed something in the last six or so months? (Not a rehtorical question, I did actually miss the last 4 rounds)...

Why is it people are thinking of Dunn as a midfielder? Yes he CAN play there, on a wing ONLY but he's not exactly suited to it. I see him more as a roaming marking target, like a HFF that comes up past the centre of the ground, though he may need a bit more time to develop his overhead work.

Pretty sure he'll play a lot more in the midfield this year Dan.

He is not strong enough to play as a key marking forward, but his agility, height, skills below the knees and pace make him a unique midfield/tagging prospect.

Also wouldn't mind him on the half-back line.

I see him as a bit of a Cameron Bruce type, and he should learn to play in different positions if he's to become a truly excellent player (which he absolutely can be).