Did you bother to read any of my other comments or do you just want have fun with stats.

No, because if you do that you actually have to make a proper argument, and not just berate the guy......

And honestly where is the fun in that?

It was a fluke, he didn't do it before and hasn't done it since. He is no good, it's as simple as that.

Nothing is ever as simple as that.

The other thing that seemed to be ignored in this article actually didn't have anyhting to do with Miller at all.......

"Melbourne is trying to off-load 2005 best-and-fairest winner Travis Johnstone for the right deal.

So far, there have been no takers for the 1997 No1 national draft selection."

Really, why?

Cos he has been at the club for 10 years and done stuff all

And we are talking about a number 1 pick as well

Cos he has been at the club for 10 years and done stuff all

And we are talking about a number 1 pick as well

Thats a bit sad though really, isn't it?!!!

You know, I kind of find it amusing that in all the kerfuffle a few things from that article have been completely overlooked........

That I probably shouldn't find surprising given the "lets beat up Brad Miller" fun everyone loves to have around here at any available opportunity. And I am thankful to Pello and Demons 32 for not being quite so "follow the leader" in regards to this ongoing argument. Its nice not to feel alone, so thanks guys.

It was argued earlier in this thread that Craig Cameron was doing nothing more that pumping up Millers potential trade value by stating that he is a "required player" but he also states "We've offered him a two-year contract and we're waiting for a reply," and "We really rate him as a person with great leadership qualities and we want him to stay." I would think that this last two quotes, particularly the first one, would be a weird thing to say if not true, for any player.

So my question is this, is he just flat out lying (disappointingly I realise that this will be the popular opinion given the player we are talking about)?

Or is Cameron actually a man of his word and is therefore telling the truth and a contract has been offered (and please try to get over all of your personal biases in this regard if that is at all possible, this is not always going to be about Brad Miller, but is about the wording and why he would say it if it is a flat out lie)

Well said Queen. I might be naive but I thought he meant those words. He certainly will lose credibility if they trade him now unless the deal is too good to resist.

And yes before you jump on that one as well he did not succeed in that role too often either.

Thanks for that, I know you were not putting him in the same league as reiwoldt but I am struggling think of one other CHF in the league (if this is his true position as you were saying) that has such poor stats, take stats aside, he does not have the confidence or ability to kick a goal from 45+ how many other CHF's or even fwds in the AFL share that inability? of his average 11 touches or whatever he butchers most of it. He is not a CHF to me and you might like to keep him but ask yourself in the last 20 premiership teams which CHF would brad miller be better then?!? shouldnt be a hard question and if the blokes is not going to get you to that level as a team then your better off giving someone else a go.

Nothing is ever as simple as that.

In this case it is.

In this case it is.

In your opinion, which I don't agree with.......

I have always believed that anyone can improve and learn.

Obviously you don't and that is fine, but don't go around stating your opinion as fact.

I have always believed that anyone can improve and learn.

well yes....and NO

you will only ever reach the limit of your ability. Some players never reach it...some have !!

I have always believed that anyone can improve and learn.

I actually agree with that, Brad Miller reached his maximum though.

In your opinion, which I don't agree with.......

I have always believed that anyone can improve and learn.

Obviously you don't and that is fine, but don't go around stating your opinion as fact.

At what point do you give up on someone though? in his six seasons he would be lucky to have played 6 exceptional games, every other CHF would play at least 6 exceptional games per year, pav, rooey, brown, mooney etc 91 games 34 goals... id rather Lynden Dunn or one of the young guys lining up at CHF and having a crack. Shall we give him another 6 years to see if he can improve and learn, maybe he didnt get it for the first 6!

At what point do you give up on someone though?

Never......

I guess that is the difference between a few of us around here, because as long as he is still in Demon colours I will never give up on him. Ever.

You can come back and call me silly or that my attitude will be a fruitless exercise if you like, but that is exactly where I stand.

Right behind all our boys. And I will only stop being concerned about and hoping for Miller (or any other player on our list) when the club tells me to.

And not a moment before.

Never......

I guess that is the difference between a few of us around here, because as long as he is still in Demon colours I will never give up on him. Ever.

You can come back and call me silly or that my attitude will be a fruitless exercise if you like, but that is exactly where I stand.

Right behind all our boys. And I will only stop being concerned about and hoping for Miller (or any other player on our list) when the club tells me to.

And not a moment before.

I suppose the thing..well is for me.. is that in a sense the players are only contributory .. i actually barrack for the TEAM. i want the team to succeed. I really couldnt give a stuff who they are..only that there is a Melbourne. Its in this vein that I get very frustrated by the leniency afforded those whose job it is to contribute when all they add is their presence.

now that may seem particularly mercenary .. but does anyoe really care who would be wearing red and blue come premiership time ?? I certainly dont. Only hope we can succeed and be competititve.

QC I appreciate you have a very different take on all this..and thats your prerogative.. we will just have to follow our team differently

I suppose the thing..well is for me.. is that in a sense the players are only contributory .. i actually barrack for the TEAM. i want the team to succeed. I really couldnt give a stuff who they are..only that there is a Melbourne. Its in this vein that I get very frustrated by the leniency afforded those whose job it is to contribute when all they add is their presence.

now that may seem particularly mercenary .. but does anyoe really care who would be wearing red and blue come premiership time ?? I certainly dont. Only hope we can succeed and be competititve.

QC I appreciate you have a very different take on all this..and thats your prerogative.. we will just have to follow our team differently

The players are the team.

Look if the club says it is time for him to go then it is time for him to go, so be it.

But while he is still in Melbourne colours he (they all) will have my support.

ok then. You have your stance, When they run out to play I am behind all of them also but the club is bigger then any individual and the best thing for the Melbourne Football Club (and probably Brad Miller) is a change of scenery. Its your acceptance of mediocrity that runs through the veins of this club.

Its your acceptance of mediocrity that runs through the veins of this club.

You are a fool and a vindictive one at that.

You know nothing about me so for gods sake get off your high horse, and don't pass judgement on anyone.

I am allowed to disagree with you all I like without being blamed for the plight of this club.

Grow up.

But while he is still in Melbourne colours he (they all) will have my support.

they can have mine too...mine just conditional the conditions are that they do whats asked of them, thats all ..and if they cant...well....

they can have mine too...mine just conditional the conditions are that they do whats asked of them, thats all ..and if they cant...well....

Fair point I will agree with that, but as long as the club want these players around I will support them.

The decision always comes back to what the club wants and thinks it needs.

And if you are going to support the club or the team then you support (not necessarily agree with, but support) what decisions they make.

Because in the end they would, or at least should, know a hell of a lot more than we do in regards to all of this.

Thanks for that, I know you were not putting him in the same league as reiwoldt but I am struggling think of one other CHF in the league (if this is his true position as you were saying) that has such poor stats, take stats aside, he does not have the confidence or ability to kick a goal from 45+ how many other CHF's or even fwds in the AFL share that inability? of his average 11 touches or whatever he butchers most of it. He is not a CHF to me and you might like to keep him but ask yourself in the last 20 premiership teams which CHF would brad miller be better then?!? shouldnt be a hard question and if the blokes is not going to get you to that level as a team then your better off giving someone else a go.

As I said part of the reason for the poor stats was that he has spent so much time down back in a purely negative role so stats aren't relevant here.

As I have also said he has lacked confidence and he needed a good coach to work with him in this area. He did kick a few goals (not many I concede) from 45 metres out this year. As I have said he is improving in this area - surely you have seen some improvement in his kicking this year. How many forwards have an inability to kick goals from 45 metres out? I'd say plenty such as Reiwoldt, Tredrea, Richardson, Lynch, Cloke, Tarrant to name a few.

In respect to your question about premiership CHF's lets be serious here. I am saying keep him on the list because he shows potential to develop into a quality player but he obviously has a way to go. However, in the interim we should keep him for all the other reasons I have already mentioned not the least of which is that he adds depth to our squad that is sadly lacking quality KPP's.

PS. Not sure who wre the star CHF's in the Crows premierships or Essendon in 2000!

Because in the end they would, or at least should, know a hell of a lot more than we do in regards to all of this.

you would hope :D

well for your sakes I just hope that BM learns something in the off season and comes out and shuts me up, and the majority of people that would be happy to see him traded.

DESPITE an ordinary two seasons, Melbourne key-position player Brad Miller has become a target for Sydney.

Swans coach Paul Roos yesterday acknowledged interest in the 24-year-old who is out of contract with the Demons.

"We've had preliminary discussions with Melbourne and it'll probably start to heat up a bit now," Roos said.

Miller has played with success at both centre half-forward and centre half-back, but Roos said he was looking at Miller as another tall-forward option.

Melbourne list manager Craig Cameron said he was aware of Sydney's interest, but declared Miller a required player.

"We've offered him a two-year contract and we're waiting for a reply," Cameron said. "We really rate him as a person with great leadership qualities and we want him to stay."

Miller has played 31 senior games out of a possible 46 for the Demons over the past two years. The Swans have yet to make an offer to Melbourne in exchange for Miller.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...42-2722,00.html

If Miller Does go, which he probably will what should we get in exchange for him?

hopefully - Miller + TJ for Pick 11 + Buchanon. (that would be ideal but is unlikely)

What are your thoughts?

not sure we need buchanon, we have enough of those types. maybe a lewis-roberts?...not sure who else we'd want from them, maybe offer a pick and get Jolly?

yep after reading a few posts here...people have convinced me he might be worth hanging on to. neale had a lot of faith in him, it can't have been entirely wrong. let's see what bailey can do with him.

Fair point I will agree with that, but as long as the club want these players around I will support them.

You are right QC. We should always support our team. What is being suggested is that for the future success of the team changes should be made and names are being thrown up for trade. We can all have an opinion on whether someone should stay or be traded. I am sure we will disagree on many names. I don't think we are not supporting the team if we suggest trades. However it is clearly not support of the individual player at this time but is not mutually exclusive of support for the team..

The amount of support for Brad Miller in this thread is frightening

And here I was thinking the supporters were ready to get tough and help kickstart a new era for the MFC

But a lot of you want to keep the deadwood

Sad

The amount of support for Brad Miller in this thread is frightening

And here I was thinking the supporters were ready to get tough and help kickstart a new era for the MFC

But a lot of you want to keep the deadwood

Sad

I doubt that trading Miller for a third round pick in an ordinary draft is going to be the difference between success or failure.

If Bailey thinks he can get more out of Miller, than we should give him a chance to teach him new tricks.