Good pickup for your dreamteam next year!

I don't have the energy to argue about this anymore. We both know that we'll never agree on this issue if you think I'm making silly excuses.

Melbourne supporters are so desperate for a star, that they expect every 21 year old to dominate consistently week in, week out. No wonder that they are shattered and disappointed when this doesn't happen.

And don't tell me has to produce because it's his 5th season next year, he has ALREADY produced.

Funny how Sylvia doesn't get special threads every time he has a dud game. Oh that's right, Sylvia has been injuries his entire career...

mclean has has one good game.... prouded a lucky free kick 2night like he did against the saints and u love him for it jaded

Good pickup for your dreamteam next year!

Exactly what I have been thinking.... Him and half our team....

Talk it up Jaded and make excuses, but Brock has been ordinary for quite some time this year and it isn't all injury.

RR I notice you say Brock has been ordinary for quite some time this year. Would you agree his progress up unil then has been excepetional?

A broken foot kills confidence as well as any pre season you have under your belt not least because you can't continue your running program.

For me Brock's year somewhat mirrors the demons fortunes. Coming into the season with great exppectations only to be cruely cut down by injuries.

"Injuries are not an excuse" is a very simple way of viewing things. If Michael Schumakre's ferrari broke down would you consider him a poor driver?

I look at what I am currently getting out of a 2nd season player like Nathan Jones and I compare it what I getting out of Brock McLean.

Stop falling behind the over blown expectations of supporters. On any reasonable metric he is barely serviceable. And its a worry for our supposed future captain.

Make all the excuses you like.

Sylvia needs to step up too. I am happy to give an objective view on him as well. But it does not hide some issues with Brock.

I look at what I am currently getting out of a 2nd season player like Nathan Jones and I compare it what I getting out of Brock McLean.

Stop falling behind the over blown expectations of supporters. On any reasonable metric he is barely serviceable. And its a worry for our supposed future captain.

Make all the excuses you like.

Sylvia needs to step up too. I am happy to give an objective view on him as well. But it does not hide some issues with Brock.

Whatever happens I don't want people to say 'Jones for captain' and the like because we all know what happens once the fans decide on our next captain . . .

when has brock mclean played well?

i can remember about 2 occasions.......... grossly overated

DEAR GOD!

2007 Averages: 17.9 disposals, 5.1 tackles (Junior, who's been much better this season, averages 23.5 disposals, 6.7 tackles)

2006 Averages: 22.3 disposals, 5.2 marks, 78 tackles for the year (Junior, our B&F winner, 23.1 disposals, 4.8 marks)

Why am I even arguing with you?!

He was recruited as an insude midfielder. He does not get the ball and cant shake a tag. My expectations are not unreasonable. Next year is his fifth year. He has to produce.

He does not get the ball? That is absurd! You realize last season he was equal leading possesion winner in the entire competition based on time on ground.

RR I notice you say Brock has been ordinary for quite some time this year. Would you agree his progress up unil then has been excepetional?

A broken foot kills confidence as well as any pre season you have under your belt not least because you can't continue your running program.

For me Brock's year somewhat mirrors the demons fortunes. Coming into the season with great exppectations only to be cruely cut down by injuries.

"Injuries are not an excuse" is a very simple way of viewing things. If Michael Schumakre's ferrari broke down would you consider him a poor driver?

No he has not been exceptional. He has been good and this season was offering him the chance to step up to the next level.

Even without the pre season his continual inability to win the ball and the numerous times he has been badly pinged holding the ball do raise concerns.

"Injuries are an excuse" is an extremely simple way of viewing things. Its allows people to see what they want to see and at the moment its 2/5ths of very little from Brock.

brad green showed why he should be a potential captain 2night ....... he was the first of all players from both sides to get a huddle forming and have a talk... after the bell hit..... good to see.... his delivery was very good to our forwards

He does not get the ball? That is absurd! You realize last season he was equal leading possesion winner in the entire competition based on time on ground.

I am talking about this year! <_<

He does not get the ball? That is absurd! You realize last season he was equal leading possesion winner in the entire competition based on time on ground.

Yeah, it's ok that he nearly equalled Judd for effectiveness last year.

Forget that. He's rubbish because he's struggled for about a month now with lack of fitness, heavy tags and a form slump. It happens to the best in the business.

What about the 30+ possession game against the Lions when he played on Luke Power? We see what we want to see Rhino, and you clearly want to focus on the negatives (of which there are some, nobody is disputing that).

He needs to know his limitations, I completely agree with that. At the moment, he's so desperate to win the contest, that he tries to do too much. It's part of a learning curve. At least he's desperate enough to try and compete and he's showing a lot of heart and determination. He might not win as many clearances, or collect as many possessions, but he's still getting the number one tag, and that tells the real story of how highly he is rated.

DEAR GOD!

2007 Averages: 17.9 disposals, 5.1 tackles (Junior, who's been much better this season, averages 23.5 disposals, 6.7 tackles)

2006 Averages: 22.3 disposals, 5.2 marks, 78 tackles for the year (Junior, our B&F winner, 23.1 disposals, 4.8 marks)

Why am I even arguing with you?!

Don't worry Jaded, it's a waste of breath. People expect McLean to be flawless or something, yes he is having an ordinary year, so have a lot of the players people want captain have in their earlier years! I refuse to believe McLean isn't partially out of form because of injury. All the doubters will see next year, the cream will rise to the top, he's too classy not to...

Yeah, it's ok that he nearly equalled Judd for effectiveness last year.

Forget that. He's rubbish because he's struggled for about a month now with lack of fitness, heavy tags and a form slump. It happens!

What about the 30+ possession game against the Lions when he played on Luke Power? We see what we want to see Rhino, and you clearly want to focus on the negatives (of which there are some, nobody is disputing that).

we all know rhino loves to focus on the negatives..... and brock mclean is clearly one jaded.

hes taken some big steps back from last year... and i dont see him reproducing that consistatly in the future

I am talking about this year! <_<

Ohh this year where he has broken his foot, lost his fitness base and played with a plethora of injuries?

we all know rhino loves to focus on the negatives..... and brock mclean is clearly one jaded.

Some people would never work out what hypocrite means in a lifetime!

Brock has had a poor year. He is still got the potential to be a very good player for us. He needs to produce next year

What really gave me the runs and curry with Brock tonight was his little hits he would do on players after they disposed of the ball.

He would have been better off chasing the player who had the ball instead of trying to be the tough guy and give an opponent a bump when they didn't have the ball.

Fitness and injuries will come and go, but the ability to work hard and get the hard ball is fully engraved into Brock and this is why he has been highly rated and will live out his potential.

Some people would never work out what hypocrite means in a lifetime!

Brock has had a poor year. He is still got the potential to be a very good player for us. He needs to produce next year

That's a much better assessment than "Brock McLean has played 2 good games in his career. He's overrated and he's rubbish".

I hate Melbourne supporters sometimes. So easily pleased, yet so happy to jump off the bandwagon when things turn bad.

Rhino, I have no doubt that Brock will judge himself as harshly as we all do. He's not the sort of player who will sit back and hope that things will turn around. If he can stay injury free for just one whole season, we'll see what he can really do. He is a very special player, and we're lucky to have him. I just wish we layed off him a bit, he's copping it worse than most senior players are. Where is the fairness in that?

That's a much better assessment than "Brock McLean has played 2 good games in his career. He's overrated and he's rubbish".

I hate Melbourne supporters sometimes. So easily pleased, yet so happy to jump off the bandwagon when things turn bad.

Rhino, I have no doubt that Brock will judge himself as harshly as we all do. He's not the sort of player who will sit back and hope that things will turn around. If he can stay injury free for just one whole season, we'll see what he can really do. He is a very special player, and we're lucky to have him. I just wish we layed off him a bit, he's copping it worse than most senior players are. Where is the fairness in that?

i have never been on his bandwagon and never will be.... unless he can prove he is a good footballer .... he cops it coz he is so grossly overrated..... u wanna tell me his a star, a special player.... i will tell u when he is crap.... and at the moment he is.....

That's a much better assessment than "Brock McLean has played 2 good games in his career. He's overrated and he's rubbish".

I hate Melbourne supporters sometimes. So easily pleased, yet so happy to jump off the bandwagon when things turn bad.

Rhino, I have no doubt that Brock will judge himself as harshly as we all do. He's not the sort of player who will sit back and hope that things will turn around. If he can stay injury free for just one whole season, we'll see what he can really do. He is a very special player, and we're lucky to have him. I just wish we layed off him a bit, he's copping it worse than most senior players are. Where is the fairness in that?

Where have I stated that? Misrepresenting someones point of view is akin to not being able to support your own. <_<

I have said I hope he turns it around in 2008. I just cant believe the shallow excuses for what is really poor form. Its even sillier when people hold his pre 2007 form up. He has been crud in 2007.

FWIW, Nathan Brown receives it far worse than McLean. FCS he has been BOG or close to it in the past two weeks. Amazing.

Where have I stated that? Misrepresenting someones point of view is akin to not being able to support your own. <_<

It's ok Rhino, I clearly wasn't talking about you.

Maybe you skipped over the posts in question. Lucky you

FWIW, Nathan Brown receives it far worse than McLean.

Brown was useless tonight.

He just loose, cheap possessions that were in no way damaging.

Brown was useless tonight.

He just loose, cheap possessions that were in no way damaging.

I'll take your word on that.

I'll take your word on that.

He just got loose...