Who's next ??..Nervous neddies !!

[beelzebub 23,313]

OK..The Coach has gone... Long live the Coach.

Now many of us have surmised and postulated that some players seemed to get an extraordinary run. Now that ND is moving on and a new think tank looms, who will be getting just a tad edgy about their longevity in the Red and Blue ?

Clint BIZZELL

Ben HOLLAND

Brad MILLER

Daniel WARD

Nathan BROWN

Simon GODFREY

Byron PICKETT

Ryan FERGUSON

Mark JAMAR

Nathan CARROLL

all out of contract this year.. ( more are but I'll assume the likes of Neeta and Junior, Sylvia Robbo and Rivers to be safe )

Im not talking trade per se....as thats on other threads. Just who may not even get much of an offer ?

Now Carroll will in all likley hood obvoiusly stay, but I couldnt bring myself to put him immediately on the safe list as Im still not 100% convinced he's our best option there. But we'll put him on the tradeable list for now, so too probably Miller and Russian.

Now my understanding is we can only force 6 changes...but if delistings fall into our lap then thats a bonus ? ( yes/no ? )

Should the rest be worried ?

[Pello 1]

Agree most of your list except:

- Miller deserves perserverance. How quickly we forget how good he was in last years final against Fremantle. A good coach might just is needed to get his career back on track.

- Godfrey - Why does he always come up on these blogs. He has had a terrific year shutting down big names. Sure his skill level is down (apart from that right foot goal against Collingwood) but you get what you see from him every week. Probably our best player too against Richmond.

- Pickett deserves the opportunity of having a full pre-season and if he hits all his weight targets should be given another oppotunity. Still has plenty to offer.

- Carroll shouldn't be on the list as he is our best option at full back no question.

Perhaps Yze and Wheatley need to be added to your list.

[sylvinator 96]

realistically we will only make a maximum of 7 changes to our list at years end. we will draft 5 and maybe 1 via the PSD and maybe one via trade.

If we intend to make 7 changes, then 7 players have to go. i think it will be 4 delistings and 3 (forced) retirements.

the 4 delistings will come out of this group of players:

Ferguson, Neville, Jamar, C.Johnson, Miller, Warnock

the 3 (forced) retirements will come from this group:

Pickett, Ward, Brown, Holland, Bizzel, Yze.

Of coarse the players out of that group that are not delisted will stay on our list as depth players. I see Bizzel, Yze, Holland, Jamar and Warnock as being kept as depth.

I see Jamar and Miller as the only players in that group who could have trade value. If we could get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for them then we should 100% take that trade. If we are going to trade a big name player, then Bruce and Green should be offered because they have very high trade value and we could get something great for them (also they are 26-27). players like rivers, mclean, jones and other youngsters should be definite offlimits. our young talent must be kept together.

[Rogue 585]

Based on a list of out of contract players on Demonology

Definitely worth keeping -

David NEITZ //Best 22

Jared RIVERS //Best 22

James mcDONALD //Best 22

Russell ROBERTSON //Best 22

Nathan CARROLL //Best 22 atm

Colin SYLVIA //Young, potential

Just worth keeping -

Brad MILLER //worth persevering with (particularly if Holland goes)

Daniel WARD //Contact for 1 year? Need to field a team and we lack pace and smaller defenders

Mark JAMAR //1 year if we don't get a readymade ruck

Delist -

Ryan FERGUSON //Barely fringe

Ben HOLLAND //Old, fringe

Nathan BROWN //Old, fringe

Simon GODFREY //Poor disposal - Bartram, Buckley(?) more potential

Byron PICKETT //Old, lesser player, departure will give potential MFC Premiership players opportunities

Clint BIZZELL //Old, still able but depature will give Frawley, Warnock etc opportunity - wouldn't mind 1 year contract

EDIT: Apparently Neville is out of contact and is simply not good enough. Perhaps delist 1 more or move Bizz into the 'just worth keeping' category.

[jiska78 3]

Trade/Delist:

Ben HOLLAND

Brad MILLER

Byron PICKETT

Daniel WARD

Nathan BROWN

Holland - Just don't rate him. Plays well against the stronger players at full-back like Rocca and Hall, but you really can't hold on to a player to play 3-4 games a year.

Miller - Daniher's biggest mistake. Enough said.

Pickett - Played a good season last year but he's best is clearly behind him and it's time to hang up the boots. Mind isn't in the right place.

Ward - Brilliant servant of our club and someone I respect greatly. Just can't fit him in to our best 6 backmen (see below).

Brown - Ditto to the comments about Ward. Awesome clubman and a little battler who I really admire, but just can't fit him in.

Probably best to have a backup backman, brown or ward would fit this requirement.

Keep:

Clint BIZZELL

Simon GODFREY

Mark JAMAR

Nathan CARROLL

Ryan FERGUSON

Bizzel - Besieged by groin problems the last two years, but remember the last year he played - 2005. Awesome player on a half-back flank. Possible trade bait, but i'd be tempted to give him one last chance

Godfrey - Still the best tagger we have in our team. He might not be pretty to watch, but he gets the job done against the competitions best. West, Judd, Goodes he has restricted this year. Very under-rated.

Jamar - White is almost at retirement age. Paul Johnson and Mark Jamar represent our future in the ruck stakes. Jamar is a strong mark and can kick a lot better than Johnson. Play him as a second ruckman and put him up forward instead of resting him on the bench.

Carroll - Are you kidding?? Safe as can be. He has been the best full-back Melbourne has had in almost a decade. He's beaten a host of good players and he's work on some of the biggest names in the game should not be under estimated.

Ferguson - Again, plagued by injuries but in a similar mould and class to Jared Rivers. Skinny and lanky, but young and undeveloped. Try this for the back six: Ferguson, Carroll, Rivers, Whelan, Bell and Wheatley.

Miller deserves perserverance. How quickly we forget how good he was in last years final against Fremantle. A good coach might just is needed to get his career back on track.

Daniher is a fantastic coach. Coach was not the problem. One game does not make a great player. Get rid of him, waste of space.

How's this for a conversation topic: Recruit Woewodin back. He's been getting 40+ disposals every week in the WAFL, we'd get him at a bargin basement price and he already knows most of the older players and has signalled his desire to return to Melbourne.

[Rogue 585]

Now Carroll will in all likley hood obvoiusly stay, but I couldnt bring myself to put him immediately on the safe list as Im still not 100% convinced he's our best option there. But we'll put him on the tradeable list for now, so too probably Miller and Russian.

What's the point? You're not going to get a great player for Carroll.

I mean sure, essentially virtually anyone is trade-able. However, Carroll is going to be worth more for us given our situation than we're likely to get for him.

If Holland, Ferg, and Bizz go then our tall-ish defensive options are down to Warnock, Frawley, and Rivers (need at least 3 in the team) and little in the cupboard to cover injuries - perhaps Garland, Miller, ahm, err, Neitz to CHB

- Godfrey - Why does he always come up on these blogs. He has had a terrific year shutting down big names. Sure his skill level is down (apart from that right foot goal against Collingwood) but you get what you see from him every week. Probably our best player too against Richmond.

Bartram and perhaps Buckley can tag, maybe McDonald too. Godfrey may have got the ball vs Richmond but turned it over time and time again - little respect shown to him by the Tigers and for good reason...I don't have the stats handy but the clanger count was very high.

- Pickett deserves the opportunity of having a full pre-season and if he hits all his weight targets should be given another oppotunity. Still has plenty to offer.

If Pickett played another season he might help us perform better than some of our younger players. However, we're not giving the flag a tilt next year IMO and thus he's just stifling development for the extra year he would play. Pointless in the grand scheme of things, even if he does have plenty to offer for a season.

Ferguson - Again, plagued by injuries but in a similar mould and class to Jared Rivers. Skinny and lanky, but young and undeveloped. Try this for the back six: Ferguson, Carroll, Rivers, Whelan, Bell and Wheatley.

Wheatley isn't a very good defender. Ferguson is not in the same class as Rivers and he's not young and undeveloped - he's around 27 years old! He's not going to fill out, and as ND apparently said - too slow for the flank types and too weak for the KPP players. Give game time to guys like Frawley instead of Ferguson IMO, and allow Wheatley to play along a wing.

How's this for a conversation topic: Recruit Woewodin back. He's been getting 40+ disposals every week in the WAFL, we'd get him at a bargin basement price and he already knows most of the older players and has signalled his desire to return to Melbourne.

Or we could get a kid for bargain basement who might not be any good, but might turn out to be part of the McLean and Bate era that challenges for a flag. Figure this is just for laughs though and I did like Woewodin.

[sylvinator 96]

neville is out of contract this year. anyone who doesnt include him as a definite as one of the 4-5 deilistings we make at years end has no idea.

guyz like Godfrey, bizzel and Holland will be kept as depth because they still give good output until the younger players are able to take over.

godfrey- eventually Bartram will take over

Holland- eventually Frawley or miller will take over the guerilla forwards

Bizzel- eventually rivers/pettard will take over the general of the backline role

[kieranbj 111]

Well to work my way through your list. Of course all just my opinion

Clint BIZZELL: A decent player behind Rivers and treading water in front of Frawley and Garland. A good recruit to the demons who should enjoy his probable stint in the senior side for the rest of the year because he wont be on the list next year.

Ben HOLLAND: A tricky one, age is against him. However with the retirement of Nicholson is the only proven gorilla backmen we have. Has shown this year is still capable of playing a role. May be offered another one year deal but could just as easily not

Brad MILLER: Definete trade bait, if we don't get much chop for him (which i doubt we will) i would certainly keep him on the list. Decent depth the may suprise and stake claim for either FB or FF. with Neitz near the end we can't just be throwing away key position prospects

Daniel WARD: A decent year this year from ward. A favorite of Neale's. Bartram, Wheatley, Whelan, Bell, Buckley, CJ should all be ahead of him next year. like bizzel, enjoy the rest of the season and thanks for the memories (especially that cracker against Brissie in 02. What a game he played!)

Nathan BROWN: A have such a soft spot for Doggie. The fact he is not in the team at the moment does not bode well for him. A true leader and a favorite around the club. To be honest i am a bit surprised Ward has been favored over Doggie all season as i still see him as a best 25 player. Will struggle for a spot next season.

Simon GODFREY: I would keep him. Played great footy all year. Still young. At worst good depth at best a premier tagger with a spot in our best 18.

Byron PICKETT: A great season last year. A player i love to watch when up and running. Unless our new coach believed we were a general chance to push for a flag next year, Byron will retire. What a great carer he has had

Ryan FERGUSON: Gone, to be honest i don't know why he was on the list for this year, or even last for that matter. A great trier who was too weak for Full Back and too slow for AFL. Would be great if he stayed at Sandy because he is great to watch at that level

Mark JAMAR: Interesting one. PJ has really overtaken him. However he only have 3 ruckmen on the senior list and with one of them over 30 Jamar probably has to be kept for depth.

Nathan CARROLL: Silly he is mentioned here. clearly in our best 22.

A couple you haven't mentioned

Warnock: Will struggle got a chance this year and did not impress

Neville- Two years on the list and a Sandy reserves regular, i know very little about him but on this basis he will struggle.

Also not sure if contracted but Yze is another to be looked at.

of the rookies i would expect Neaves promoted and Bode and Hughes to leave

[beelzebub 23,313]

Im trying to keep this talk to who ought to be nervous given the changing of the guard. And am tryig to stay clear of trade talk here. carrroll is good...he's not brilliant and gets beaten by the better Forwards..that just is.. yes. He;s the best for a long while, but who knows what may come along in trade etc.. I have taken him off the dead list :-)

I also am inclined to possibly keep Gods.. with the rest ( those not tradeable ) probably looking for a future beyond MFC.

[Rogue 585]

neville is out of contract this year. anyone who doesnt include him as a definite as one of the 4-5 deilistings we make at years end has no idea.

I wasn't aware he was out of contract & have never seen him play. Posters on here certainly think he's gone though.

guyz like Godfrey, bizzel and Holland will be kept as depth because they still give good output until the younger players are able to take over.

godfrey- eventually Bartram will take over

Holland- eventually Frawley or miller will take over the guerilla forwards

Bizzel- eventually rivers/pettard will take over the general of the backline role

Why not run guys like Bartram, Buckley - and McDonald while he's still around - as taggers? Give them consistent AFL experience in '08. I mean really, Bartram would have played before Godfrey had he not been injured.

Holland gives little value - how many 'gorilla' forwards are there? Better to give younger players that experience - we're going to need them to step up ASAP anyway. Holland isn't getting any younger - or quicker.

Rivers has already taken over as the general IMO. Bizz would give us value next year IMO, but at the cost of experience to a guy like Frawley, Garland, Warnock etc. Could be worth keeping as depth, I do agree.

Some valid comments on most players, but I think you're rather optimistic and it seems we're keeping virtually everyone. Who would you delist?

Btw to address your query re: Ward/Brown, Ward's pace helps him immensely. We're a pretty slow team all over the park, but certainly in defence. Brown is pretty one-paced, can't kick very far, and his disposal isn't great either.

[sylvinator 96]

i agree that guyz like rivers and bartram have already taken over Godfrey and Bizzel. BUT, incase of injuries they should be kept as quality depth.

Holland is one guy who has not yet been overtaken by a youngster. Frawley, Miller or Warnock should take over eventually, but at the moment all of these guyz would be killed by the Gehrig, Rocca and the like.

we must develop someone to take over him asap

[Rogue 585]

i agree that guyz like rivers and bartram have already taken over Godfrey and Bizzel. BUT, incase of injuries they should be kept as quality depth.

Holland is one guy who has not yet been overtaken by a youngster. Frawley, Miller or Warnock should take over eventually, but at the moment all of these guyz would be killed by the Gehrig, Rocca and the like.

we must develop someone to take over him asap

I see where you're coming from but tend to think that drafting in younger kids to build a stronger team for the future quicker is more important than shoring up our list for the next year or so.

I agree that Holland in particular is one guy that's difficult to replace. However, he is only valuable in certain circumstances. I'd rather send guys like Miller or our young defenders out there to give it a shot in those weeks where we're faced with a huge forward. I agree that we need to develop someone to take over from him ASAP, and I think fast-tracking their development by giving them gigs on these players will be helpful in the medium to long-term (even if a guy likes Rocca occassionally kicks a bag).

I don't believe keeping Godfrey is great value if he's not part of our medium to long-term plans - and for me he's not. It'd be better to give our other midfielders tagging jobs IMHO.

I do think Bizzell might be worth keeping. I think we should be looking at a minimum of five and perhaps more delistings though. I moved Bizz into the 'keep' category after you mentioned Neville though, so I agree with you on this one.

I do think the guys you've mentioned have some value, so hopefully this explains where I'm coming from.

[Jarka 767]

OK..The Coach has gone... Long live the Coach.

Now many of us have surmised and postulated that some players seemed to get an extraordinary run. Now that ND is moving on and a new think tank looms, who will be getting just a tad edgy about their longevity in the Red and Blue ?

Clint BIZZELL

Ben HOLLAND

Brad MILLER Keep

Daniel WARD

Nathan BROWN

Simon GODFREY Keep

Byron PICKETT

Ryan FERGUSON

Mark JAMAR

Nathan CARROLL Keep

all out of contract this year.. ( more are but I'll assume the likes of Neeta and Junior, Sylvia Robbo and Rivers to be safe )

Im not talking trade per se....as thats on other threads. Just who may not even get much of an offer ?

Now Carroll will in all likley hood obvoiusly stay, but I couldnt bring myself to put him immediately on the safe list as Im still not 100% convinced he's our best option there. But we'll put him on the tradeable list for now, so too probably Miller and Russian.

Now my understanding is we can only force 6 changes...but if delistings fall into our lap then thats a bonus ? ( yes/no ? )

Should the rest be worried ?

Keep the highlighted delist the rest, query about Heath Neville, i'd be surprised if he was given aan extension so by my dodgey calculations shouldn't he be out of contract as well? Pretty sure we can delist as many as we want. Warnock would have to consider himself lucky to keep his spot.

See what we can get for White, Bruce and Green, but only trade if it's a great deal for us.

[Spirit of 26 261]

OK..The Coach has gone... Long live the Coach.

Now many of us have surmised and postulated that some players seemed to get an extraordinary run. Now that ND is moving on and a new think tank looms, who will be getting just a tad edgy about their longevity in the Red and Blue ?

Clint BIZZELL

Ben HOLLAND

Brad MILLER

Daniel WARD

Nathan BROWN

Simon GODFREY

Byron PICKETT

Ryan FERGUSON

Mark JAMAR

Nathan CARROLL

all out of contract this year.. ( more are but I'll assume the likes of Neeta and Junior, Sylvia Robbo and Rivers to be safe )

Im not talking trade per se....as thats on other threads. Just who may not even get much of an offer ?

Now Carroll will in all likley hood obvoiusly stay, but I couldnt bring myself to put him immediately on the safe list as Im still not 100% convinced he's our best option there. But we'll put him on the tradeable list for now, so too probably Miller and Russian.

Now my understanding is we can only force 6 changes...but if delistings fall into our lap then thats a bonus ? ( yes/no ? )

Should the rest be worried ?

Godfrey's safe. No way they'll trade or delist the 2007 B&F winner.