Tried to start a conversation on this on olgy but answers more concerned with players. However, it all starts with coachers, list managers and football managers. Who stays if, when Danners goes and I mean in the football dept. is going to reconstruct the playing list and make the hard decisions. And what about the fitness staff, are they good enough, how do we become a major player again after Neales reign?

only really want one to stay out of all that lot.. one Craig Cameron !!

he's been stirling and its hardly his fault his efforts arent realised and appreciated !!

Fagan seems to do ok ..

No one else is setting the world on fire !!

only really want one to stay out of all that lot.. one Craig Cameron !!

he's been stirling and its hardly his fault his efforts arent realised and appreciated !!

Fagan seems to do ok ..

No one else is setting the world on fire !!

Why are you such an apologist for Cameron ?

I can't see that he's had such an impeccable record .He may have had a few successes with on - ballers along the way , but his record with KPP players leaves alot to be desired , IMO , and at the end of the day our success or otherwise is inextricably determined by big men not on- ballers .

Has a contingency plan been set for post Neitz life ? No, and the jury is out on Newton .

Is anyone being developed to assume a key defensive post ? Rivers will take one role , but we know Carroll is not the answer for the other , whilst Frawley will need 2 - 3 seasons .

Is anyone being groomed for CHF ? No , and there's nobody on the horizon .

Is anyone being groomed to assume the ruck mantle from White ? Jamar is not the answer , Johnson has improved out of sight , but will never be a number 1 , whilst Neaves has hardly set the TBO alight .

whoa !!

wake up bud!! CAC scouts, finds and helps recruit them... after that its up to the coaches.

he can force danners and Co when or where to play them, he has no ability to make williams play them in this poz or that.

I dont see that CAC has done very much wrong.

your entitle to your opinion..

I'm not apologist for anyone. Hes done far more good than bad..

whoa !!

wake up bud!! CAC scouts, finds and helps recruit them... after that its up to the coaches.

he can force danners and Co when or where to play them, he has no ability to make williams play them in this poz or that.

I dont see that CAC has done very much wrong.

your entitle to your opinion..

I'm not apologist for anyone. Hes done far more good than bad..

Daniher doesn't have the time to get out and see most of the potential recruits and must rely on CAC's recommendations.

mate..I agree.. thats the whole thing.. CAC can get some good players.. but if Danners and Co doesnt want to bring them on...because "they' have some ideas about it all.. Then hows that CAC's fault.

mate..I agree.. thats the whole thing.. CAC can get some good players.. but if Danners and Co doesnt want to bring them on...because "they' have some ideas about it all.. Then hows that CAC's fault.

My point is that he's targetting the wrong players .

I m happy to be corrected here..

but my understanding of the procedures of procurement would follow something like this.

The Caoch(s) and indeed the football dept would meet to establish the filled and holes of a team. identify what they have, what they'd like to have what they need to get and what they have to get it. They will also appraise the already in house recruits as to status of development and likely retainment.

They arrive at various criteria and descriptions of players wanted.

This is passed to recruitment , who may or may not have been involved in some minor way all along..but necessarily.

Recruitment on the basis of the shopping list and its knowledge of what is out there isolates a particular group of players as potential fodder for the mill.

The football dept review what is found and further identify certain players as targets. Then its off to the cirrcus known as trade and drafting.

Now recruitment can only work with whats its given. They I can imagine will try to find the best available given the requirements as laid down by the coaches. If the coaches describe a round box with smooth edges thats got five legs.. then thats what recruitment goes looking for.

So you can see...The Coaches and co are driving the bus.. Recruitment is only there to fill it with petrol.. if the directions are wrng...its not recruiting's fault.

or I may have it all wrong.

B59 you make some good points but I think it's pretty hard to argue that the recruitment of KPP's, whatever the instructions of the coaching department might have been, have been ordinary during CAC's time. A quick look at our current KPP's illustrates this. Nathan Carroll was a rookie, who had spent time at Fremantle, Jared Rivers was taken after Bell and Nick Smith in 2002, Miller at 55 in that horrible draft of 2001 (the Molan draft), Neitz came through the junior ranks of the old zoning system.

It would be fair to say that the selections of Chris Lamb, Daniel Breese, Luke Molan (unlucky), Nick Smith, Aaron Rogers etc were not successful. The jury is still out on Frawleyand Dunn. Not sure if you would consider Bate a KPP, but he looks a good likely lead up forward. Most of these guys were taken inside the top 30. Ash Hansen at WCE was a high 30's choice, as was Brendan Fevola (38).

I think our very good record in rookie drafts (Robertson, J McDonald, Bassett, Bishop, Jolly, Jamar, Carroll, Warnock, Davey etc), plus no brainers like McLean and Sylvia ( both pretty obviously highly ranked players in 2003), mixed with the absolute stellar draft of 1999 which netted Green, Wheatley, Whelan and Bruce (about 500 games from those 4!) makes CAC's record look acceptable. The 99 draft was a ripper given that we missed out on the first round due to our salary cap breaches.

I guess what I am saying is that all areas of the club are equally accountable for the current situation-coaching, recruiting, medical, administration and let's not forget the players!

Ok, I'm a big fan of CAC.

Let's face it, while there have been a few poor years circa '01-'02 Craig Cameron's performance has included at least one 'premiership' recruiting season (Green, Bruce, Wheatley, Whelan and Godfrey) as well as consistent performances in the last couple of years.

My only criticism would be that I'm still not a fan of recycling players, although Vardy did win us a final back in '02!

Dunn Bate Newton is a draft I think we'll see a few hundred games out of.

Jones Bartram Buckley and Neville looks pretty handy too.

And of course 2003 went well enough, we'll wait and see how CJ goes but I still think he can step up.

According to www.thedrafter.net Melbourne is second only to Hawthorn in the 'retorspective ratings' of draft history since 1998.

And it's worth noting that the site doesn't include Rookie drafts.

And, for that matter, is 'popularly' rated, so it's a mircale anyone comes in ahead of Collingwood.

It's an interesting site, by the way.

some pretty fair coments all around. I still think he ( CAC) has earned a better than Pass, and is still probably the only one i'd keep.

As it happens I think bate will grow into that CHF we need.