sure, but it's unacceptable to turn your back on a ball once it hits the ground, or not to chase when a contest is within a meter of you. And it's definitely unacceptable to command pin point delivery as a developing forward. Have a look at Dunn (or Garland for that matter) as a clear contrast. When a delivery isn't perfect, Dunn just forgets about it and makes position again and again. Juice's body language and approach to the game is questionable.

Unfortunately for me, I witnessed his game at Casey last year, and my expectations of him are high. I'll get over it.

I've got the answer....it's a bit old school....like me, but.....

......give him half a season in the backline.

Remember the good old days when forwards were dumped into the backline to develop their defensive skills and make them appreciate how much effort went into getting the ball to them?

Who knows he might even end up developing into a better defender than a forward!

Go Dees - More Juice anyone?

I'm starting to see the pattern now, and I totally respect the views of those who are frustrated with, or have given up on Juice. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I will say this. I know what it's like to go into something with confidence only to be shown up in the early days of the gig. IF he can get his attitude right, as we know, he MAY be worth pursuing. But we have to at least see the embryonic stages of hard work in 2007. Even then, if we have a good year we may be forced into a premature delisting with the mandatory 3. We all saw what happened with 426.

In the end, I'm staving off jumping on teh anti-Juice bandwagon for just the next 3 months. Come round 8 (or thereabouts) we WILL know where he's at. The evidence will be far more compelling.

But Bate is class on the move. I expect big things of him this year.

I said it before and I'll say it again, besides Brock, the most exciting prospect at the dees for the next 10 years. Just going along beautifully isn't he? And one of the most exciting things is that he appears to be quite robust. None of this "he'll be great if he stays fit" malarkey.

I was pleased to see that Green looks like his heel spur operation was sucessful.

He was full of running and a shot on goal went straight through the middle.

So JAG, when you say he was back to his best, would you say his kicks had penetration? I for one saw no problem with his leg speed last year, he actually looked ridiculously quick at times. What was missing was that shape on his kick whereby he stabs it through the air. Every kick, particularly those at goal, were hospitals, and therefore sometimes the direction deviated in mid-air. Would you say this penetration has returned? Gee I hope it has.

are there any photos we can veiw? a link somewhere?

AFL photos have a gallery up

http://www.aflphotos.com.au/search/results...0Match%20200207

AFL photos have a gallery up

http://www.aflphotos.com.au/search/results...0Match%20200207

Thanks for the website mate, much appreciated to see our boys in action , if you could not be at the dome yesterday, especially me, since i live in sydney and cant make it down

....

I know what it's like to go into something with confidence only to be shown up in the early days of the gig. IF he can get his attitude right, as we know, he MAY be worth pursuing...

I said it before and I'll say it again, besides Brock, the most exciting prospect at the dees for the next 10 years. Just going along beautifully isn't he? And one of the most exciting things is that he appears to be quite robust. None of this "he'll be great if he stays fit" malarkey.

So JAG, when you say he was back to his best, would you say his kicks had penetration? I for one saw no problem with his leg speed last year, he actually looked ridiculously quick at times. What was missing was that shape on his kick whereby he stabs it through the air. Every kick, particularly those at goal, were hospitals, and therefore sometimes the direction deviated in mid-air. Would you say this penetration has returned? Gee I hope it has.

Lack confidence is different to a lack of attitude. And this is certainly the case with Newton. The annoying issue is that in his third year at the Club he still shows an attitude that has plagued him from the start. I dont think people are righting him off...not yet. I think Finks captured it when he called for him to "Fire Up".

And its totally justified. Its not a matter of assessing where he is at in round 8 as we know where is at now. Its a matter of him extracting the digit from here on.

Players get delisted on the basis that Footy Clubs do not believe they are good enough. If Newton does not fire up...he will be delisted first cab off the rank. There have been very few delistings that have been "premature" in AFL. And Nick Smith certainly was not one of them. He was not good enough and I note that no AFL club has beaten down a path to sign him either. Hmmm what do 16 clubs know that 426 supporters dont.

Any league footballer can succumb to injury from the smallest to the biggest. Jonathan Brown is quite robust but cant get a consistent fitness on the track. The same could be said about McLean and Sylvia when they were recruited. For the roles I see Bate playing, "he'll be great if he stays fit" applies equally to him as it does all footballers in AFL.

Also just a question, i live in brisbane, so where and how will i view this sundays NAB game?

Fox Sports 1. Live at 6pm.

AFL photos have a gallery up

http://www.aflphotos.com.au/search/results...0Match%20200207

They have listed Jones as PJ in a number of photos

Its not a matter of assessing where he is at in round 8 as we know where is at now. Its a matter of him extracting the digit from here on.

For the roles I see Bate playing, "he'll be great if he stays fit" applies equally to him as it does all footballers in AFL.

- It's simple really. One crappy intra doesn't make me write him off (nor does it make anyone write him off) But if by a third - a half of the way into the season he hasn't shown signs of at least getting a few games with the dees AND showing something, then I'm writing him off.

Do we really know where he's at now? I know I don't. I'd like to hear where some people get their knowledge about this kid. Do some of you have a family member or best mate at the club that leaks information? If so, fair enough for you. My sneaking suspiscion is that for the majority of landers and 'ologists they are basing their knowledge of his bad attitude on the opinions of a select few posters, and that of the way he goes about his footy. So how about you RR? What do you base your opinion of his attitude problems on? It's an honest question. In order for me to be absolutely sure I most certainly am going to need to see what he does with his third and "make or break" year at the club.

- Yeeees. I think my point was that with all the Bell/Sylvia/McLean/Moloney OP problems, it's nice to see a guy who is just as much crash-and-bash, but seems to slow down for no man. Perhaps it's his relative size and weight, but I've just about never seen him come off second best in a contest, despite being very quick to boot. The obvious exception there being when he did his knee.

I'll state upfront that I've not read all of this thread but I do feel the comments I've seen on Newton are premature and extreme.

Many here will know that I am excited about this kid but have always seen him as a longterm speculative investment. He has loads of talent but he also has trouble stringing games together. Application is a problem.

Now he played poorly on Tuesday, but he hasn't been that bad in the first two match simulations. He hasn't shone either. He's entering his third season with us. He was taken as one of the youngest players in the 2004 draft. He's not yet 20.

Yes, be disappointed, but also be realistic. He'll take time. He won't be ready this year. He contracted and he's got this year at minimum to show what's he's got.

And Finks, don't lose the passion, but try and keep some perspective. <_<

...

Right you are prepared to express an opinion on player you have not seen play (or rarely) but are prepared to cast negative judgement on those that have often seen him play over the past three years at Sandy and including this week's intra-club and make a judgement. Not very substantive is it? And you are the only person who is writing him off. The general gist has been for him to lift his application rate from very poor.

In fact many of the posters you chastise actually are impressed with aspects of Newton's ability but have been disappointed with repeated displays of poor attitude and application. His poor attitude cancels out any potential from his abilty.

And how do they know? They actually go and watch the games.

So where is Newton at? He is at the crossroads. The intraclub ws not even close to AFL pressure and he was struggling. What he does about it will require a real test of character. The way he is going he will struggle by Rd 8 to hold a game at Sandy. So you better get down to TBO.

Well said Fan. A thoughtful knowledgable piece from someone who has actually seen Newton a number of times.

And Finks, don't lose the passion.....

That would be impossible. I guess when we chatted on the phone Fan, our convo was cut short and I didn't get all my whinging out.

I hope that people read what I'm saying about Juice and understand that this can all be corrected. I'm just asking the kid to fire up, i'm not writing him off.

I never stated my expectations (dangerous thing to do around here, coz ppl then run quoting you as gospel), and I'm not calling for him to make an impact at this point. I just don't want sooks running around the MFC, and I expect the MFC to identify sooks and work with them to change their attitude.

Demon2. Your original claim was "Bohden strikes again" so the fact that something happened when he worked at other teams is not evidence that this is a case of Bohden "striking again" at all.

As far as I'm aware, the only team where he was previously associated with a high number of soft tissue injuries was in his last year at Hawthorn. He has worked with the Australian basketballers, in other sports including of course athletics and with other football clubs and individual footballers and I'm not aware of any complaints.

There was no evidence from the time he was at Hawthorn however, that there was a correlation between BB's training methods and the incidence of groin and hamstring injuries. The injuries might have been co-incidental or they might have been a result of the entire training regimen as applied by the football coach who was also replaced at the end of the year. So let's not call what happened when he worked elsewhere "evidence". If we're making that allegation, I think we need to find a lot more proof than that.

just go to the hawks board and ask them......they will tell u the evidence.....the guy makes players faster...but his methods (mainly attuned to athletes) are not always the best for footballers..who are sprinters, and long dinstance runners...

look i hope i am wrong..but trust me i am not and was not the only supporter who was worried when he was hired....

i guess unlike others though i don't change my opinion becuase players in the preseason come out saying how great things are...

cos pre seasons are always great./....

just go to the hawks board and ask them......they will tell u the evidence.....the guy makes players faster...but his methods (mainly attuned to athletes) are not always the best for footballers..who are sprinters, and long dinstance runners...

look i hope i am wrong..but trust me i am not and was not the only supporter who was worried when he was hired....

i guess unlike others though i don't change my opinion becuase players in the preseason come out saying how great things are...

cos pre seasons are always great./....

Might be good if your opinion was backed with some facts and evidence rather spurious hyberbole and you might be taken seriously.

Might be good if your opinion was backed with some facts and evidence rather spurious hyberbole and you might be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to give too much detail here on this forum, but I know that when the MFC interviewed people working at Hawthorn football club regarding BB, they did not blame him for soft tissue injuries. I take that info more to heart than the yelling and screaming of members of the Hawthorn msgboards.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to give too much detail here on this forum, but I know that when the MFC interviewed people working at Hawthorn football club regarding BB, they did not blame him for soft tissue injuries. I take that info more to heart than the yelling and screaming of members of the Hawthorn msgboards.

No Finks, D2 read it on the BigFooty Hawks board - it's gotta be true ...

Right you are prepared to express an opinion on player you have not seen play (or rarely) but are prepared to cast negative judgement on those that have often seen him play over the past three years at Sandy and including this week's intra-club and make a judgement. Not very substantive is it? And you are the only person who is writing him off. The general gist has been for him to lift his application rate from very poor.

In fact many of the posters you chastise actually are impressed with aspects of Newton's ability but have been disappointed with repeated displays of poor attitude and application. His poor attitude cancels out any potential from his abilty.

And how do they know? They actually go and watch the games.

So where is Newton at? He is at the crossroads. The intraclub ws not even close to AFL pressure and he was struggling. What he does about it will require a real test of character. The way he is going he will struggle by Rd 8 to hold a game at Sandy. So you better get down to TBO.

Well said Fan. A thoughtful knowledgable piece from someone who has actually seen Newton a number of times.

Take it easy RR. Firstly, yes I'm prepared to express an opinion on ANY listed demon, including one I HAVE seen play, just not as much as I'd like. I don't recall casting negative judgement, but I stand by my contention that many posters on demonland RELY on people like you and others based in Victoria to feed them information about kids that don't see regularly televised action. A fair enough assesment I'd suggest, and one I have some experience with having seen demonland from the vantage point of NSW, Victoria and o/s for months on end.

For the record, once again RR, I HAVE NOT written him off. Read the first line of my last post again. Give him some more action in the big leagues where we'll be able to see where he fits, and indeed if he is capable, and then I'll come out with a truer position. Half a dozen games for Sandy seniors and some scintillating form in the ressies convinces me of absolutely nothing. Nothing positive, and perhaps more importantly, nothing negative. Give me my 8 rounds plus the NAB playing on AFL defenders, and then we'll have something to discuss.

Look, there are plenty of positives about him, but my god do we need to go over all that again? Yes, he can jump, mark, kick, has oodles of talent and a slim frame. People mumble things like "Neitz replacement," which is premature, blah, blah, blah.

Project or not, you have to see food on your plate at some stage. You and others (CAC among them, obviously) regard his talent to be substanital enough to wait 3 years for any tangible effect at senior level. On the surface, I agree. I would hope EVERY tall brought to the club would be given time. Look at CJ, Buckley and Bell who aren't even very KP players. My opionion, something I'm pretty sure I'm entitled to, is that now is the time to show something at SENIOR level. Simple enough? Fairly well in line with your "general gist" isn't it?

Once again, we agree on the crux of the issue, yet you find something to disagree with. Am I supposed to go to more Sandy matches when I'm living in Kogarah am I?

Am I supposed to go to more Sandy matches when I'm living in Kogarah am I?

No. Connex are too unreliable and the hot chips at TBO are ordinary.