Thanks for confirming your insanity Dieter.

 

20 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Thanks for confirming your insanity Dieter.

 

Lunatics galore. Just watch this Bro, promise me.

 

4 hours ago, Biffen said:

There is a problem demographic.

Namely uneducated Muslim youth.

We will need bigger prisons to "house" them.

You realise that a lot of the Sudanese kids in Melbourne are Christian. I know you'd love to plonk the blame on them because of their religion, but it doesn't work with Apex.

The Sudanese civil war is yet another religious war, like most. It's fought between Christians and Muslims.

I believe, having spent time with some Sudanese Australian guys when developing a documentary series last year, that they lack male role models. A lot of the men/fathers don't come over from Sudan, leaving the mothers to look after multiple kids by themselves in a foreign land, with little support. Without trying to speak for them, the community is trying its best to teach this small minority (the so called 'Apex Gang') to grow up, but there's a lack of resources preventing this.

It's a case of a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch. But it's complex because these kids have either experienced intense war-time conditions as civilians, or in fact been child soldiers. These situations are rarely just black and white. As much as some people would like them to be, these situations aren't simple fixes that can be put into safe little boxes and put out of mind.

6 minutes ago, A F said:

You realise that a lot of the Sudanese kids in Melbourne are Christian. I know you'd love to plonk the blame on them because of their religion, but it doesn't work with Apex.

The Sudanese civil war is yet another religious war, like most. It's fought between Christians and Muslims.

I believe, having spent time with some Sudanese Australian guys when developing a documentary series last year, that they lack male role models. A lot of the men/fathers don't come over from Sudan, leaving the mothers to look after multiple kids by themselves in a foreign land, with little support. Without trying to speak for them, the community is trying its best to teach this small minority (the so called 'Apex Gang') to grow up, but there's a lack of resources preventing this.

It's a case of a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch. But it's complex because these kids have either experienced intense war-time conditions as civilians, or in fact been child soldiers. These situations are rarely just black and white. As much as some people would like them to be, these situations aren't simple fixes that can be put into safe little boxes and put out of mind.

Some are Christian ,some are not but what you say about role models is true.

The immigration department has also made errors with these kids by putting them in the ghetto,en masse,with no preparation for city living.

The Shepparton Sudanese seem to be going well but who really knows.

31 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Some are Christian ,some are not but what you say about role models is true.

The immigration department has also made errors with these kids by putting them in the ghetto,en masse,with no preparation for city living.

The Shepparton Sudanese seem to be going well but who really knows.

Finally, we agree. I've always been really proud of the way (for the most part) we've managed to prevent having ghettos, because we actually think about this stuff. We don't just plonk new Australians all in the one area and thus create those ghettos.

It's not always controllable though. Say in America, their population and urban size is such that it's a lot tougher to plan. We're fortunate in that respect.

But I'd just like to go back to your previous point. You admit that maybe you jumped the gun on trying to blame Muslims for this one?

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by A F

4 hours ago, Biffen said:

Violence is a part of life.

It will never be eradicated.

If we're that flippant about it, why bother debating fundamentalist Islam for 13 pages? You really are a contradiction, Biffboy.

18 minutes ago, A F said:

Finally, we agree. I've always been really proud of the way (for the most part) we've managed to prevent having ghettos, because we actually think about this stuff. We don't just plonk new Australians all in the one area and thus create those ghettos.

It's not always controllable though. Say in America, their population and urban size is such that it's a lot tougher to plan. We're fortunate in that respect.

But I'd just like to go back to your previous point. You admit that maybe you jumped the gun on trying to blame Muslims for this one?

Sudan is 98% Muslim so yes we can blame Islam for the hell that is Sudan .

Also I would suggest many of these kids were raised as Islamic, whatever religion they now claim i cannot say.

Also Adam.

Footscray,Sunshine,Dandenong and Springvale are urban ghettos. 

The government service seem to put them there in groups ,or provide the English lessons there probably because of NIMBY sentiment.

Flemington was the same before that.

 

13 minutes ago, A F said:

If we're that flippant about it, why bother debating fundamentalist Islam for 13 pages? You really are a contradiction, Biffboy.

I'm not flippant about violence.

Societies must prepare for it or they cease to exist.

That's the great lesson of history.

I'll let you in on a secret-the Chinese are petrified of it, yet their whole culture is built on The Art of War which is a paradoxical text about creating harmony and preserving life.

12 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Sudan is 98% Muslim so yes we can blame Islam for the hell that is Sudan .

Also I would suggest many of these kids were raised as Islamic, whatever religion they now claim i cannot say.

Also Adam.

Footscray,Sunshine,Dandenong and Springvale are urban ghettos. 

The government service seem to put them there in groups ,or provide the English lessons there probably because of NIMBY sentiment.

Flemington was the same before that.

 

Hang on though. You realise the majority of Sudanese Melbournians were born in South Sudan, right? South Sudan is majority Christian.

So no, the majority were raised Christian.

I'd agree with Sunshine and Dandenong, but it's not dissimilar to the Vietnamese in Springvale or Richmond. It just takes time to assimilate sometimes.

Edited February 16, 20178 yr by A F

Just now, A F said:

Hang on though. You realise the majority of Sudanese Melbournians were born in South Sudan, right? South Sudan is majority Christian.

So no, the majority were raised Christian.

I'd agree with Sunshine and Dandenong, but it's no similar to the Vietnamese in Springvale or Richmond. It just takes time to assimilate sometimes.

Do you reckon some of them lied on paper about the Christian thing?

Also mate, the Sudanese are lumped in WITH the Vietnamese in Springvale,Dandenong,Sunshine and Footscray.

The Ethiopians are absolutely beautiful ,and calm.

Sudanese seem a bit mental if I'm generalising, as is my want, but we can put that down to growing up in a war torn hellhole of Muslim creation.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Do you reckon some of them lied on paper about the Christian thing?

Also mate, the Sudanese are lumped in WITH the Vietnamese in Springvale,Dandenong,Sunshine and Footscray.

The Ethiopians are absolutely beautiful ,and calm.

Sudanese seem a bit mental if I'm generalising, as is my want, but we can put that down to growing up in a war torn hellhole of Muslim creation.

 

 

Not when they've been involved in a brutal war. Their identity would mean everything. They persecute each other for their religious beliefs.

And let's not play any guessing games here. There's no evidence they lie on entry.

But yes, there is a common thread in those locations. The Vietnamese have been accepted by the mainstream though. Not sure the Sudanese have yet. Things take time.

Just finished reading most of this thread and what a ramble, it's gone from a shooting in Canada, to the KKK, the Nazis, the Middle East and just about every other conflict and eventually finishes up with the tin foil hat, conspiracy brigade on 911.

About the only group I would associate with the Nazis is ISIS, they certainly seem hell bent on the genocide of the Christians in Syria, isn't this what the Nazis did with the Jews? They have been found to have committed unbelievable atrocities against those that have been captured, beheading and slaughtering them.

The KKK are a bunch of racist idiots but the number of deaths of Black Americans attributed to the KKK is nowhere near and in fact a fraction of the number that is committed by other black Americans, in fact there was a survey that showed that there are nearly as many black on black deaths committed in a 6 month period than in the whole existence of the KKK. There have been about 3,600 deaths attributed to, mainly lynchings, the KKK and it is impossible to say if they were all committed by the KKK, that was over an 86 year span. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/27/allen-west/allen-west-more-black-black-murders-six-months-86-/

There is a lot of talk about the slaughter of muslims by the Western Alliance but this pales in to insignificance when you consider the number of muslims that are killed by other muslims. There were an estimated 1,000,000 killed in the Iraq/Iran war and the number killed each week in Iraq by car bombings account for thousands over the last 10 years, the Kurds were gassed by Saddam and there are many other examples of muslims killing muslims.

There are so many that I haven't got the time to list them all but the Taliban slaughtered thousands in Afghanistan and that's ongoing. If  woman is raped in some muslim countries and reports it she is either thrown in jail or stoned to death. Gays are killed if they are exposed and the treatment of Women is appalling, but apart from that all is well.

I'd like to see muslims take to the streets and demand that there be an end to the slaughter in the middle east and that the terrorists cease to carry out their killings, if that happens then it will be the first step to some acceptance of muslims by a large percentage of Australians who don't trust them them.

 

26 minutes ago, Dante said:

Just finished reading most of this thread and what a ramble, it's gone from a shooting in Canada, to the KKK, the Nazis, the Middle East and just about every other conflict and eventually finishes up with the tin foil hat, conspiracy brigade on 911.

About the only group I would associate with the Nazis is ISIS, they certainly seem hell bent on the genocide of the Christians in Syria, isn't this what the Nazis did with the Jews? They have been found to have committed unbelievable atrocities against those that have been captured, beheading and slaughtering them.

The KKK are a bunch of racist idiots but the number of deaths of Black Americans attributed to the KKK is nowhere near and in fact a fraction of the number that is committed by other black Americans, in fact there was a survey that showed that there are nearly as many black on black deaths committed in a 6 month period than in the whole existence of the KKK. There have been about 3,600 deaths attributed to, mainly lynchings, the KKK and it is impossible to say if they were all committed by the KKK, that was over an 86 year span. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/27/allen-west/allen-west-more-black-black-murders-six-months-86-/

There is a lot of talk about the slaughter of muslims by the Western Alliance but this pales in to insignificance when you consider the number of muslims that are killed by other muslims. There were an estimated 1,000,000 killed in the Iraq/Iran war and the number killed each week in Iraq by car bombings account for thousands over the last 10 years, the Kurds were gassed by Saddam and there are many other examples of muslims killing muslims.

There are so many that I haven't got the time to list them all but the Taliban slaughtered thousands in Afghanistan and that's ongoing. If  woman is raped in some muslim countries and reports it she is either thrown in jail or stoned to death. Gays are killed if they are exposed and the treatment of Women is appalling, but apart from that all is well.

I'd like to see muslims take to the streets and demand that there be an end to the slaughter in the middle east and that the terrorists cease to carry out their killings, if that happens then it will be the first step to some acceptance of muslims by a large percentage of Australians who don't trust them them.

 

Ruby Hamad came out and criticised the assertion that Islam is" feminist" made on Q and A.

For once she "called [censored]"coming from another Muslim.

Don't hold your breath that Islam will reform itself though.