In essence, I tend to agree with you. But what is worrying is that yesterday, we were beaten pointless by a young and inexperienced team - albeit laden with talent - that had its bench decimated by injuries, which obviously severely restricted its rotations, and entered the game with several of what it would consider to be its top tier players, not even available for selection.

Our problems go far deeper than just the list we have.

No doubt I'va

But i think the list is the first step and the most obvious void in the list is experience and leadership

It's not just that simple but if we can get 18 blokes on the park who can play 120 minutes of Roos's gameplan we will be a decent team. We don't have that at the moment. And it's due to too many youngsters or bloke not pulling or can't pull their weight

I have faith that Roosy will get it right

Even though it means more suffering for us poor bastards haha - I really think if we stick to the plan we will get there.

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No doubt I'va

But i think the list is the first step and the most obvious void in the list is experience and leadership

It's not just that simple but if we can get 18 blokes on the park who can play 120 minutes of Roos's gameplan we will be a decent team. We don't have that at the moment. And it's due to too many youngsters or bloke not pulling or can't pull their weight

I have faith that Roosy will get it right

.

Agreed. Nice to see some semblance of positivity on here today, while understanding the pall that hung over (hungover??) us yesterday.

Agreed. Nice to seem some semblance of positivity on here today, while understanding the pall that hung over (hungover??) us yesterday.

It was very tough viewing yesterday haha

The first half was ok (nothing special and certainly not the best we've played all year), not converting our scoring shots really hurt. Then when GWS strung some goals together you could see the boys heads drop and go in to old habits. Kick long, don't chase etc. kind of give up.

I think that is a result of lack of experience and leadership.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom because we've seen earlier in the year that the boys can do it, but for whatever reason they can't meet the requirements for the gameplan at the moment. The good news is Roos will be able to see who can develop and who hasn't got it.

A few more key inclusions will also help us not need to be over defensive - ie Hogan. but we need more quality mids

Surely the footy gods will start to shine on us soon and enable our draftees to start to develop and some of the younger boys (Viney, Tyson, Toump and co) to develop that senior body and tank so in 2015 we can be competitive in more games for longer.

Two things stood out to me yesterday. Our players, with a few exceptions, are grossly undersized, even when compared with the young GWS players. Most of the exceptions have come from other clubs - have a look at the body shapes of Vince, Tyson and Dawes and compare them with Frawley, Grimes and Watts. I've been selective, sure, but there are plenty of others to choose from.

Which means our players aren't strong enough to stick tackles and they are clearly not fit enough to run out a game, let alone a whole year.

To me, that says coaching (meaning player development) has been a big problem over many, many years. i accept that players have to take some responsibility for presenting themselves in the best condition possible, but the players are not themselves professional trained in sports science like (I hope) the coaches are. The players are entitled to and are expected to rely on the guidance of the coaches and for years they have been let down.

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

Funnily enough I see the sun setting on the bad Melbourne and the sun rising on a new improved club as well.

The years spent under Roos should set this club up for the lucky coach who takes over and reaps the benefits.

It is hauntingly similar to when R.D.Barrassi set us up for our late 80's and 90's push, when he set the standards for the kids who would form the backbone of a successful side.

My only knock is he has given the players the crutch to lean on by questioning past mistakes and there effect on players.

Surely we need to move on and if the players haven't we need some new players, or a severe reprogramming of the existing ones.

Funnily enough I see the sun setting on the bad Melbourne and the sun rising on a new improved club as well.

The years spent under Roos should set this club up for the lucky coach who takes over and reaps the benefits.

It is hauntingly similar to when R.D.Barrassi set us up for our late 80's and 90's push, when he set the standards for the kids who would form the backbone of a successful side.

My only knock is he has given the players the crutch to lean on by questioning past mistakes and there effect on players.

Surely we need to move on and if the players haven't we need some new players, or a severe reprogramming of the existing ones.

how has he set the standard other than talking about it & where was our standard yesterday

how has he set the standard other than talking about it & where was our standard yesterday

It took Ron the best part of five years, including a season where we only won one game.

I'm willing to give him his 3 years.

Changing such a poor culture/losing attitude is a long term project.

I was angry,devastated,gutted etc. yesterday as well but guess what, life goes on, and instead of stewing over this we need to move on.

At least results like this will bring forward the closure of several list clogging careers.