Well rather than trying to be the smartarse that you are, next time 'take the time' to have a read up on

the information you're providing you goose.

Where is this coming from?

Rucking is more than just taps, so Martin averaging only 15 isn't a concern.

I just wanted to grab a quick list of ruckmen to give an idea of who would be comparable to Martin.

At some point you might want to take people at face value.

Where is this coming from?

Rucking is more than just taps, so Martin averaging only 15 isn't a concern.

I just wanted to grab a quick list of ruckmen to give an idea of who would be comparable to Martin.

At some point you might want to take people at face value.

RPFC, don't pretend that your comment that went along with the link you sent wasn't supposed to be smartarse.

I'm trying to take you at face value, but when you are trying to prove a point by using a list of ruckmen you haven't even looked at and be smug about it, you will have to expect some stick!

The 'goose' part really wasn't meant with malicious intent so I apologise if it came across that way.

I'm happy to talk in a civil manner but all I really see from this is that you rate Martin higher than I do.

Edited October 19, 201114 yr by stevethemanjordan

RPFC, don't pretend that your comment that went along with the link you sent wasn't supposed to be smartarse.

I'm trying to take you at face value, but when you are trying to prove a point by using a list of ruckmen you haven't even looked at and be smug about it, you will have to expect some stick!

You said you hadn't thought of all the second rucks to compare to Martin - I said 'maybe you should think about it, hmm?' and then I gave you a list of ruckmen via the hitout search function on footywire...

The end.

I'm happy to talk in a civil manner but all I really see from this is that you rate Martin higher than I do.

I see that too, and you're welcome to that opinion. As am I.

I said he has the ability to go forward and kick goals and I used that game as evidence. He kicked 5.

And yes that game we were beaten convincingly so doesn't that say something?

No. He played on Thornton all day. That was back when Carlton lacked quality talls, so they didn't really have a match-up for him.

No. He played on Thornton all day. That was back when Carlton lacked quality talls, so they didn't really have a match-up for him.

So would that mean with Carlton's list the way it stands now (with their quality talls), that they'd easily match up on a forward line with Clark, Watts, Martin/Jamar, Jurrah and a small?

No. He played on Thornton all day. That was back when Carlton lacked quality talls, so they didn't really have a match-up for him.

Didn't he get 5 goals from 5 kicks? Mainly from rapid breaks, because most of the play that day was in our defensive half. And he's missed some shockers since. That was a one-off, a bit like Morton's 3 goals in a half from CHF against Cats in 2009 or 2010.

Repeat - Jamar's one of the best stoppage rucks in the business, which is why he's so good, but not much else & never has been. Averaged 32 hitouts, but only 4 kicks, 2 marks & 7 handballs per game in 2011. He's not the "complete" ruckman, but he excels at the most important part of the job.

You said you hadn't thought of all the second rucks to compare to Martin - I said 'maybe you should think about it, hmm?' and then I gave you a list of ruckmen via the hitout search function on footywire...

The end.

I said I couldn't be bothered taking the time to look up which back-up ruckmen I would take ahead of Stef because if we are comparing them all on average stats over the season, I would need to look up more than a list of average hit-outs, (which is what you provided).

And I am still surprised to see that you would take Stef over all of the six I mentioned. Nic Nat in particular.

The end, end.

No. He played on Thornton all day. That was back when Carlton lacked quality talls, so they didn't really have a match-up for him.

Meaning what? He still kicked 5 and played the forward role well. He has kicked goals as a forward in many other games also? He has the ability to go forward and kick goals. Plain and simple. That was my point. Are you saying you disagree with that?

Edited October 19, 201114 yr by stevethemanjordan

I said I couldn't be bothered taking the time to look up which back-up ruckmen I would take ahead of Stef because if we are comparing them all on average stats over the season, I would need to look up more than a list of average hit-outs, (which is what you provided).

And I am still surprised to see that you would take Stef over all of the six I mentioned. Nic Nat in particular.

The end, end.

I just gave a list a names.

I thought to myself 'how do I get a list of ruckmen to make it easier for Landers to see what talented back up ruckmen are out there?"

Then I thought 'what about footywire? Surely that site would have average hitouts - that would lead me to all those names that I was trying to think of!'

And then I said in a later post that Martin as equal to the ones you named - you did not include NikNat:

But from that amazing list of average hit-outs per game the second ruckmen above Stef are as follows:

Zac Smith

Trent West

Brent Renouf

Max Bailey

Shaun Hampson

Tom Bellchambers

Andrew Browne

Cameron Wood

Jonothan Griffen

That's nine big one's.

Getting back to the point - Martin may have his faults but he is developing quickly and is already one of the best 2nd rucks in the league.

And that allows us to play Clark excusively in the forward line.

Imagine vineys vacum with the following players setup in the square -- Clark, Martin, Jamar, Watts, Jurrah and Davey

I just gave a list a names.

I thought to myself 'how do I get a list of ruckmen to make it easier for Landers to see what talented back up ruckmen are out there?"

Then I thought 'what about footywire? Surely that site would have average hitouts - that would lead me to all those names that I was trying to think of!'

And then I said in a later post that Martin as equal to the ones you named - you did not include NikNat:

Getting back to the point - Martin may have his faults but he is developing quickly and is already one of the best 2nd rucks in the league.

And that allows us to play Clark excusively in the forward line.

Yes.

I agree. Jamar and Martin rucking. Clark in the square.

So where does the resting rruckman go to - forward pocket or bench?

So where does the resting rruckman go to - forward pocket or bench?

Both I would say.

Just don't stick him at CHF or CHB. That's a big no no.

Both I would say.

Just don't stick him at CHF or CHB. That's a big no no.

Do you think over the next couple of seasons that Martin could be groomed for a CHB/FB role, with Gawn as the 2nd ruck?

Do you think over the next couple of seasons that Martin could be groomed for a CHB/FB role, with Gawn as the 2nd ruck?

Yes, potentially Billy.

But he's got a hell of a lot of learning and improving to do in all areas of his game before he can hold down a position like that.

He is not an AFL footballer. He is still learning the game.

Do you think over the next couple of seasons that Martin could be groomed for a CHB/FB role, with Gawn as the 2nd ruck?

Maybe CHB.... That'd be great. His speed and jump....