NFL

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

14 minutes ago, Macca said:

Can you see them winning another game this season with Geno Smith and an under prepared rookie as their QB?

And it is all about winning games.  They haven't dumped Eli for tanking purposes

- Nope. Gonna be fun though. lol

- They haven't?!!! I dunno about that. I think in USA sports, tanking isn't even a dirty word. What do they say in Philly? "Trust the process." I have a feeling the organisation sees this as literally their next franchise QB coming from their first pick. If they DO win a couple more and go from pick 3 to pick 8, they'll trade up from 8 to 2... and assume, correctly, that the Browns will screw up pick 1. I reckon like when Peyton got hurt at Indy, let him walk and got Luck ("Suck for Luck" was the popular phrase then)... that's pretty much what the Giants are resigned to doing. Not saying they went about it well... but it's clear to everyone what they're angling for.

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Drafting a QB is hit & miss.  Often missing.  I put Eli in the Flacco mould - not great but why make the change when the alternative has a good chance of being far worse.

Of course it is... but you still have to do it. Again and again if required. Or if you're the Browns, again and again X26...

I would agree, except Flacco is 32. If Eli was 32, there wouldn't even be a question. He'd still be there. But he's turning 37 soon. And in NYC, you gotta get those fans in. If I'm a Giants fan I'm probably hoping Eli stays cos I love him... but half of me is ready for the new chapter. At very least I'm going through every little thing I can find on the top 3 guys online, with a fine tooth comb, to see if it's worth the trouble. I did the same when Howie traded up to pick 2 to get Wentz. In those few days before the draft, I was feverishly looking into Goff/Wentz stuff. I was pretty excited though. Bradford isn't a bad QB. But I wasn't EXCITED to watch him play. I feel like if Giants see their list the way you do, then they'd assume they're 2 maybe 3 years away... at which time Eli will be almost 40. If they're not in shooting distance in 2018... then the time is right. Get lucky dipping.

[Macca 16,967]

4 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Obviously he's not playing. But the question of who's most valuable to Giants won't be in regards to the next 5 weeks. For obvious reason they're looking at 2018 and onwards... And if that's true, OBJ is by far and away the biggest piece of that puzzle, and will be the highest paid player at the club easily. It's not like they have 0 talent on their list. I really like the idea of a Rosen or Jackson coming in and having OBJ to throw to. Look at Wentz. In his first year he had nothing to target, give him Jefferey and suddenly he's exploded. If you watch OBJ closely, he makes the QB better. Giants actually looked dangerous in the few games he played this year.

And yeah. It is garbage. But again... so was Eagles. I reckon in the NFL (as opposed to the AFL) you're only one or two off seasons away from a serious list, as long as you work the trades and free agency right. At the Eagles, Roseman got the reigns back of what was largely viewed to be a garbage list.... Yes, they got lucky in that more or less every move turned out to be a winner... But the point is the so-so core group look super once you put good pieces around them. I think Giants main 6 guys are good enough to have them back in the NFC East race within a couple of seasons. No doubt. That said, it allllllll hangs on the QB, and how much protection you can get him. Who do they take, and will they be a bust.

Of course they can improve their roster but there's a lot more to it than just a collection of commodities. 

One of the more stupid decisions I've ever seen is Collingwood not changing their mind on the termination of Malthouse - it was absolute lunacy to let him go after landing a premiership.  And they are still paying the price. 

Same deal with our club sacking Norm Smith - decisions like that can set a club back for a long time.  Clubs can lose their way if they don't stay the course or start jumping at shadows.

The decision to dump Eli goes a lot further than whether he's still capable or not (and his numbers say that he's no better or worse than he's ever been)  29 dropped catches (bread-basket catches) by the Giants is the highest in the league.  How is that Eli's fault?

They are piszing on a monument - and that's bad for business.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

They are piszing on a monument - and that's bad for business.

Yeah. But a 37 year old monument. Indy did the same with Peyton, and no-one there minds, as they got Luck. Peyton didn't even mind as he went to Broncos and got his second ring.

It's one area in the NFL that they have maturity over us. Trav Cloke gets booted from the Pies, and you wouldn't believe the vitriol aimed at him over something that wasn't even his fault. Older QBs get moved to other clubs all the time, and coaches get moved on, and the GP so often remain supporters. Even at Philly they cheered McNabb when he started for the Redskins. Ditto for Andy Reid when KC came to town.

I love how USA sports are about the acceptance of free agency and player movement. Although I will agree with you that dropping him with only 5 games to go... I mean... I still don't understand who or what it helps. Geno would need to throw 4 TDs a week with no picks to get the job next year... Genuine question... is the Geno stuff a smokescreen? Is it actually the fact that they want to look at Webb? Maybe they rate him? Regardless, McAdoo is gawn... So it's all pretty much a big "?" for me still.

[Macca 16,967]

6 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

- Nope. Gonna be fun though. lol

- They haven't?!!! I dunno about that. I think in USA sports, tanking isn't even a dirty word. What do they say in Philly? "Trust the process." I have a feeling the organisation sees this as literally their next franchise QB coming from their first pick. If they DO win a couple more and go from pick 3 to pick 8, they'll trade up from 8 to 2... and assume, correctly, that the Browns will screw up pick 1. I reckon like when Peyton got hurt at Indy, let him walk and got Luck ("Suck for Luck" was the popular phrase then)... that's pretty much what the Giants are resigned to doing. Not saying they went about it well... but it's clear to everyone what they're angling for.

Of course it is... but you still have to do it. Again and again if required. Or if you're the Browns, again and again X26...

I would agree, except Flacco is 32. If Eli was 32, there wouldn't even be a question. He'd still be there. But he's turning 37 soon. And in NYC, you gotta get those fans in. If I'm a Giants fan I'm probably hoping Eli stays cos I love him... but half of me is ready for the new chapter. At very least I'm going through every little thing I can find on the top 3 guys online, with a fine tooth comb, to see if it's worth the trouble. I did the same when Howie traded up to pick 2 to get Wentz. In those few days before the draft, I was feverishly looking into Goff/Wentz stuff. I was pretty excited though. Bradford isn't a bad QB. But I wasn't EXCITED to watch him play. I feel like if Giants see their list the way you do, then they'd assume they're 2 maybe 3 years away... at which time Eli will be almost 40. If they're not in shooting distance in 2018... then the time is right. Get lucky dipping.

What is obvious is that I rate Eli a lot higher than what you do Dappa ... and that's fine,  we can agree to disagree.  His age is of no relevance to me - it's about winning now - make sound decisions and let the future take care of itself. 

It's as if the 2 SB wins don't matter enough with some ... which is the part that I find astonishing.  He didn't get lucky - he played lights out.  Twice. 

And there's any number of teams that have never won a SB - some of those clubs have no idea about the meaning of success.

1 minute ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. But a 37 year old monument. Indy did the same with Peyton, and no-one there minds, as they got Luck. Peyton didn't even mind as he went to Broncos and got his second ring.

Peyton won a SB elsewhere whereas the Colts are crap again with an injury-prone QB.  Are you sure the Colts don't mind?  I reckon they would have some big regrets.  They are irrelevant now. 

Peyton won but the Colts lost ... and the same thing can happen with Eli.  I hope he makes the Giants pay and I hope the Giants totally collapse.  They deserve to pay a price for their abject incompetence.

And I doubt whether Eli will mind if he has success elsewhere either - why would he mind?  He's been shafted by an organisation that doesn't respect it's own champions

2 times a Super Bowl MVP and it's out the door by a coach & a GM who are on borrowed time.  Poor form.  How would you feel if you're own club (Eagles) did the same if the exact same circumstances were at play?

[Macca 16,967]

Eli's numbers in his 2 SB winning seasons ...

2008 ... TD  21  INT 10

2012 ... TD 26   INT 15

Eli's last 3 completed season's ...

2014 ... TD 30   INT 14

2015 ... TD 35   INT 15

2015 ... TD 26   INT 16

What's the problem?  One could argue that he's getting better.

And those numbers do tell a story,  always have,  always will.  Other stats are often quite meaningless. 

He's an easy target ... their problems run a lot deeper and he is being scapegoated.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

It's as if the 2 SB wins don't matter enough with some ... which is the part that I find astonishing.  He didn't get lucky - he played lights out.  Twice. 

And there's any number of teams that have never won a SB - some of those clubs have no idea about the meaning of success.

Peyton won a SB elsewhere whereas the Colts are crap again with an injury-prone QB.  Are you sure the Colts don't mind?  I reckon they would have some big regrets.  They are irrelevant now. 

Peyton won but the Colts lost ... and the same thing can happen with Eli.  I hope he makes the Giants pay and I hope the Giants totally collapse.  They deserve to pay a price for their abject incompetence.

And I doubt whether Eli will mind if he has success elsewhere either - why would he mind?  He's been shafted by an organisation that doesn't respect it's own champions

2 times a Super Bowl MVP and it's out the door by a coach & a GM who are on borrowed time.  Poor form.  How would you feel if you're own club (Eagles) did the same if the exact same circumstances were at play?

I think that's what I'm saying. My club did the same thing. Worse in fact. They threw Donovan out at age 35(ish). I was pumped. I knew he only had a couple of good years left. He went on to do nothing. Eagles moved on to Kolb, and within a few games, Vick went close to winning an MVP in a classic year. I didn't for a minute think it was a mistake to trade the Eagles best QB in the post-merger era. Although MANY Eagles fans who loved him were really upset. All about selling high, buying low. Eli's situation is different obviously, but since you asked...

And no. Ask any Colts fans, from top to bottom... they're certainly frustrated that Luck is hurt... but the kid has played some great football in his first few seasons, and is an out and out gun. Just has some horrible injuries. Everyone in that organisation is very, very pleased to have him. And 100% of them would rather have their current situation with Luck vs a retired hall of famer.

I'm with you on Eli more than you think. I reckon he's a credit to the League. I think it's two separate topics though. One, dropping him at this time in this fashion.... and quite separately the idea of moving him on IN THE OFF SEASON. First one: I can't get my head around, and not many people can. Second one, I think is aggressive and makes a lot of sense, as discussed above. But yeah, you're not wrong... McAdoo apparently, according to what I'm hearing from all the credited beat reporters, had no say in dropping him. Wasn't his idea. But it won't matter. He and Reese are doneskies, surely. And hey... I can hardly say I mind... I hate the Giants.. They go bad = good for Eagles.

Where I can't go with you is the "win now" thing. I mean. That's just not true on any level. Clubs come out and flat out admit to tanking, all over the league. They shift a solid player to the bench to sort out their future all the time when they can't make playoffs. In some instances they do it even before seasons start. They rebuild. Happens all the time. But again... this is all one view vs another, and is for all intents and purposes, sort of pointless to discuss.

So wild change of topic... has noone on here mentioned about Rodgers apparently flying in training? Still a shot? I would prefer to meet literally 14 other teams in the NFC in playoffs rather than play Rodgers. Should I be worried? Some are saying 9-7 will be enough?

 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

What's the problem?  One could argue that he's getting better.

And those numbers do tell a story,  always have,  always will.  Other stats are often quite meaningless. 

He's an easy target ... their problems run a lot deeper and he is being scapegoated.

HIS AGE is the problem. The list around him, particularly the O line is in such bad shape that by the time they get THAT organised, Eli will be 40 and in steep decline.

Those numbers are stats. Same as all stats. If you use your eyeballs, you can see as you say Eli is much the same player he's always been. No sense to drop him this week. However, they're trying to beat father time by moving him on while he has value. Instead of watching him decline slowly. They look at Romo and while he was still playing arguably the best ball of his career at the end, age caught up with him and his body fell apart. LUCKILY they had Dak ready to go behind him. What's wrong with getting ahead of the Eli ticking timebomb?

Yeah no argument with the scapegoat part. I reckon the entire organisation has an inflated sense of value. They really are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.What I'm really interested to see is... McAdoo is literally DAYS away from being let go. It could be as soon as next week, or the week after the Eagles game. When THAT happens... I wonder what the odds are that the caretaker will pick Eli... and the incoming coach will retain him for 2018...

Fun to watch. Like really ugly reality TV.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000885977/article/aaron-rodgers-returns-to-packers-practice-saturday

 

And just like that... This really will put the cat amongst the pidgeons. Only have to beat the Bucs and the Browns and they'll be all over it...

[Macca 16,967]

Just now, Dappa Dan said:

I think that's what I'm saying. My club did the same thing. Worse in fact. They threw Donovan out at age 35(ish). I was pumped. I knew he only had a couple of good years left. He went on to do nothing. Eagles moved on to Kolb, and within a few games, Vick went close to winning an MVP in a classic year. I didn't for a minute think it was a mistake to trade the Eagles best QB in the post-merger era. Although MANY Eagles fans who loved him were really upset. All about selling high, buying low. Eli's situation is different obviously, but since you asked...

And no. Ask any Colts fans, from top to bottom... they're certainly frustrated that Luck is hurt... but the kid has played some great football in his first few seasons, and is an out and out gun. Just has some horrible injuries. Everyone in that organisation is very, very pleased to have him. And 100% of them would rather have their current situation with Luck vs a retired hall of famer.

I'm with you on Eli more than you think. I reckon he's a credit to the League. I think it's two separate topics though. One, dropping him at this time in this fashion.... and quite separately the idea of moving him on IN THE OFF SEASON. First one: I can't get my head around, and not many people can. Second one, I think is aggressive and makes a lot of sense, as discussed above. But yeah, you're not wrong... McAdoo apparently, according to what I'm hearing from all the credited beat reporters, had no say in dropping him. Wasn't his idea. But it won't matter. He and Reese are doneskies, surely. And hey... I can hardly say I mind... I hate the Giants.. They go bad = good for Eagles.

Where I can't go with you is the "win now" thing. I mean. That's just not true on any level. Clubs come out and flat out admit to tanking, all over the league. They shift a solid player to the bench to sort out their future all the time when they can't make playoffs. In some instances they do it even before seasons start. They rebuild. Happens all the time. But again... this is all one view vs another, and is for all intents and purposes, sort of pointless to discuss.

So wild change of topic... has noone on here mentioned about Rodgers apparently flying in training? Still a shot? I would prefer to meet literally 14 other teams in the NFC in playoffs rather than play Rodgers. Should I be worried? Some are saying 9-7 will be enough?

 

McNabb never won a SB,  nor did he win 2 x SB's so it is not the same.  And winning SB's is what the whole thing is about.  It's why the sport is played.

If Eli had never won a SB I would possibly/probably be agreeing with the decision to move him on.  But he did win (twice) so it does matter. 

And I am completely unbiased - in fact,  when I post I make sure to remove all bias ... you've just admitted that you hate the Giants Dappa so it could be assumed that you don't care about them making a f'ed up decision.  With me,  I just see the f/ed up decision.

All clubs should be aiming at winning now and they should always be building towards having a great list. 

It's where the MFC got it horribly horribly wrong - we got fed bs with regards the future with the imbecilic faith in drafting.  Plus, we didn't value winning and we didn't develop players - and it's all related to winning.  We lost our 12 of our first 13 games in 2009 yet many Melbourne supporters here weren't even concerned.  All belief systems should be challenged.  And it's not just sport - religion, politics & business practices the same.  Or, we can just go along with the crowd and never question anything. 

My attitude is that if a team is always absolutely desperate to win games and has sensible people in positions of responsibility then the future takes care of itself - the horse before the cart.  The other way around often doesn't work. 

I'm no dreamer ... my favourite saying in sport - 'It's ok to dream but it's not ok to be a dreamer'  Otherwise,  prepare yourself to be bitterly disappointed - and that often eventuates in anger & hate.

 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

McNabb never won a SB,  nor did he win 2 x SB's so it is not the same.  And winning SB's is what the whole thing is about.  It's why the sport is played.

If Eli had never won a SB I would possibly/probably be agreeing with the decision to move him on.  But he did win (twice) so it does matter. 

And I am completely unbiased - in fact,  when I post I make sure to remove all bias ... you've just admitted that you hate the Giants Dappa so it could be assumed that you don't care about them making a f'ed up decision.  With me,  I just see the f/ed up decision.

All clubs should be aiming at winning now and they should always be building towards having a great list. 

It's where the MFC got it horribly horribly wrong - we got fed bs with regards the future with the imbecilic faith in drafting.  Plus, we didn't value winning and we didn't develop players - and it's all related to winning.  We lost our 12 of our first 13 games in 2009 yet many Melbourne supporters here weren't even concerned.  All belief systems should be challenged.  And it's not just sport - religion, politics & business practices the same.  Or, we can just go along with the crowd and never question anything. 

My attitude is that if a team is always absolutely desperate to win games and has sensible people in positions of responsibility then the future takes care of itself - the horse before the cart.  The other way around often doesn't work. 

I'm no dreamer ... my favourite saying in sport - 'It's ok to dream but it's not ok to be a dreamer'  Otherwise,  prepare yourself to be bitterly disappointed - and that often eventuates in anger & hate.

 

Except that having won SBs DOESN'T matter. When you're winning them next DOES matter. That's what creates business for these big organisations. If you're saying that there's still room for romance... cling to a player who won't be there in your next playoff run... then you're going to get a tidal wave of opposition from within your own organisation and fan base. Speaking of which... Favre. Has there been a more beloved player anywhere? He went on to play more seasons and keep winning with the Vikes. Are you saying that Rodgers SHOULDN'T have been played? Is Rodgers BETTER than Favre now? Your idea of "win now" isn't altogether wrong. But neither is planning for the future.

Come on Macca....  I didn't say they were identical situations. In fact I said they weren't the same, which you ignored. Take a closer look... A 35 year old beloved QB who won championships, still playing good ball, was moved on to great effect at my club. Loved the decision when it was made, and that was BEFORE it was shown to be a masterstroke. Same thing with Peyton. Noone in any camp minds. It was a win-win-win for the Colts who went on to playoffs the next year, Peyton who went to the Broncos for a SB, and for Elway who got support for his gun defense. That's what I'm saying. Moving on a SB winning QB, all round good guy and superstar CAN be "win now" and CAN BE a good decision FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. If you're that blind and stubborn that you can't see the benefit for all parties in these gutsy decisions, then you're just not looking close enough.

Don't misread my point. I may "hate" the Giants, but I think I've written enough on here for you to be able to see I'm not "biased." You can hate a club for being in your division, and as rivals. But if I was biased, I wouldn't have OBJ as my keeper year-in-year-out. You can do both simultaneously. I hated the Hawks, but by gee did I respect them. Still do really. So let's not go casting aspersions on each others' "bias" shall we?

Look, I'm with you on the win now thing... Like I say I'm not saying it's without merit. But winning the next 5? To go 7-9 on the season and pick somewhere around the teens? In other words, effectively putting themselves in a position where to GET their next QB they'd have to trade future first rounders and current players?

Look mate. You think what you want. I'm not trying to change your mind. All I'm saying is planning ahead works. It worked for your Packers with Favre/Rodgers... worked for the Eagles with Wentz. It's not nonsense. Nor is comparing the McNabb move to Eli. What IS a long bow to draw is comparing MFC's situation to anything in the NFL. Especially the Giants... who's "down" period has been going for exactly 11 games now. MFC's went 11 years and counting.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

47 minutes ago, Macca said:

 

Onto WAY more interesting matters... You didn't answer my question on Rodgers.

I've only just heard in the last 48 hours that he's possibly going to play week 15. Is that really the case? Has that been known for a while now and I just missed it?

[Macca 16,967]

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Except that having won SBs DOESN'T matter. When you're winning them next DOES matter. That's what creates business for these big organisations. If you're saying that there's still room for romance... cling to a player who won't be there in your next playoff run... then you're going to get a tidal wave of opposition from within your own organisation and fan base. Speaking of which... Favre. Has there been a more beloved player anywhere? He went on to play more seasons and keep winning with the Vikes. Are you saying that Rodgers SHOULDN'T have been played? Is Rodgers BETTER than Favre now? Your idea of "win now" isn't altogether wrong. But neither is planning for the future.

Come on Macca....  I didn't say they were identical situations. In fact I said they weren't the same, which you ignored. Take a closer look... A 35 year old beloved QB who won championships, still playing good ball, was moved on to great effect at my club. Loved the decision when it was made, and that was BEFORE it was shown to be a masterstroke. Same thing with Peyton. Noone in any camp minds. It was a win-win-win for the Colts who went on to playoffs the next year, Peyton who went to the Broncos for a SB, and for Elway who got support for his gun defense. That's what I'm saying. Moving on a SB winning QB, all round good guy and superstar CAN be "win now" and CAN BE a good decision FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. If you're that blind and stubborn that you can't see the benefit for all parties in these gutsy decisions, then you're just not looking close enough.

Don't misread my point. I may "hate" the Giants, but I think I've written enough on here for you to be able to see I'm not "biased." You can hate a club for being in your division, and as rivals. But if I was biased, I wouldn't have OBJ as my keeper year-in-year-out. You can do both simultaneously. I hated the Hawks, but by gee did I respect them. Still do really. So let's not go casting aspersions on each others' "bias" shall we?

Look, I'm with you on the win now thing... Like I say I'm not saying it's without merit. But winning the next 5? To go 7-9 on the season and pick somewhere around the teens? In other words, effectively putting themselves in a position where to GET their next QB they'd have to trade future first rounders and current players?

Look mate. You think what you want. I'm not trying to change your mind. All I'm saying is planning ahead works. It worked for your Packers with Favre/Rodgers... worked for the Eagles with Wentz. It's not nonsense. Nor is comparing the McNabb move to Eli. What IS a long bow to draw is comparing MFC's situation to anything in the NFL. Especially the Giants... who's "down" period has been going for exactly 11 games now. MFC's went 11 years and counting.

I would have stayed with Favre at the time - it's what I actually said at the time too.  Rodgers was an unknown.  He could have just as easily been a dud.  Hindsight tells us otherwise but I'm not a hindsight person.  I stand by what I said because I own my own words.  If I said otherwise I'd be telling lies.

Eli is being replaced by Geno Smith and another rookie QB who Jon Gruden is saying is nowhere near NFL ready.  It's a bad decision and the decision could easily hurt their organisation - time will tell. 

They may also recover really quickly and become a force in a few years - but how can that happen if the decision makers keep making poor decisions? 

A good example is the Demons from 2007 onwards - we turfed out most of our experienced players and replaced them with draft pick numbers ... result - absolute disaster.  Why?  Because the people making the decisions were incompetent. 

Which brings us back to MxAdoo,  Reese & the Giants ownership .. I don't believe that they know what they are doing and right now, they are still there and Eli is out.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I would have stayed with Favre at the time - it's what I actually said at the time too.  Rodgers was an unknown.  He could have just as easily been a dud.  Hindsight tells us otherwise but I'm not a hindsight person.  I stand by what I said because I own my own words.  If I said otherwise I'd be telling lies.

Eli is being replaced by Geno Smith and another rookie QB who Jon Gruden is saying is nowhere near NFL ready.  It's a bad decision and the decision could easily hurt their organisation - time will tell. 

They may also recover really quickly and become a force in a few years - but how can that happen if the decision makers keep making poor decisions? 

A good example is the Demons from 2007 onwards - we turfed out most of our experienced players and replaced them with draft pick numbers ... result - absolute disaster.  Why?  Because the people making the decisions were incompetent. 

Which brings us back to MxAdoo,  Reese & the Giants ownership .. I don't believe that they know what they are doing and right now, they are still there and Eli is out.

We should run a pool on when McAdoo gets the arse. I bags 3 weeks from now. 

[Macca 16,967]

5 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Onto WAY more interesting matters... You didn't answer my question on Rodgers.

I've only just heard in the last 48 hours that he's possibly going to play week 15. Is that really the case? Has that been known for a while now and I just missed it?

He's a competitor so he'll want to play (if fit) ... the coaching staff may not want him to play though so who knows?  Our season is virtually shot anyway as I don't expect the teams above GB to start losing lots of games (outside or within the NFC North)

As a consequence I'm not exactly excited about Rodgers playing again this season.  I follow the league as well as the Packers so I've switched over to league mode.  I'm the opposite with AFL - it's the MFC only and my interest in the league is a minor one. 

[Macca 16,967]

5 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

We should run a pool on when McAdoo gets the arse. I bags 3 weeks from now. 

Not sure ... I see him as a selfish person and the decision to bench Eli as  strategic one to buy more time ... follow the money trail. 

He won't be expected to win games with Geno (and the rookie) and if the management & ownership have backed him on the Eli move,  they might be compelled to support him (McAdoo)

One thing is for sure Dappa .. there's a lot that we don't know and it's a huge ongoing talking point.  McAdoo will fall on his feet - he might be a poor coach but he's not necessarily unintelligent.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

He's a competitor so he'll want to play (if fit) ... the coaching staff may not want him to play though so who knows?  Our season is virtually shot anyway as I don't expect the teams above GB to start losing lots of games (outside or within the NFC North)

As a consequence I'm not exactly excited about Rodgers playing again this season.  I follow the league as well as the Packers so I've switched over to league mode.  I'm the opposite with AFL - it's the MFC only and my interest in the league is a minor one. 

I see. Well... What if they beat Bucs and Browns and other results fall your way. Are competitors too far ahead? I listen to a bit of Philly sports radio and podcasts. Man are they ever getting ahead of themselves. If Rodgers did come back and they squeaked in... He could easily do to Eagles what he did to Dalllas. Would add to his legend.

 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Not sure ... I see him as a selfish person and the decision to bench Eli as  strategic one to buy more time ... follow the money trail. 

He won't be expected to win games with Geno (and the rookie) and if the management & ownership have backed him on the Eli move,  they might be compelled to support him (McAdoo)

One thing is for sure Dappa .. there's a lot that we don't know and it's a huge ongoing talking point.  McAdoo will fall on his feet - he might be a poor coach but he's not necessarily unintelligent.

I'd take him as an OC. I'd be furious if he was my club's head coach though.

[Macca 16,967]

25 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I see. Well... What if they beat Bucs and Browns and other results fall your way. Are competitors too far ahead? I listen to a bit of Philly sports radio and podcasts. Man are they ever getting ahead of themselves. If Rodgers did come back and they squeaked in... He could easily do to Eagles what he did to Dalllas. Would add to his legend.

 

If that happened it would be great but to be honest,  I haven't entertained any thoughts of playoffs.  We're too far back,  the Vikings are a lot better than I thought they'd be,  Atlanta can keep winning,  same for Seattle,  Detroit's schedule isn't tough and then there's the Panthers,  Saints,  Rams & Eagles.

3 of those 8 teams would have to fall away quite dramatically and in my opinion,  that isn't going to happen.  Even Dallas are a game ahead of Green Bay.  So that's 9 teams ahead with 6 spots available. 

It was different in 2013 as the other 3 teams in the NFC North were incapable of taking advantage of Rodger's first broken collarbone. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Macca

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

13 minutes ago, Macca said:

It was different in 2013 as the other 3 teams in the NFC were incapable of taking advantage of Rodger's first broken collarbone. 

I hope you're right. I have a lot of time for the Saints and Vikes, and obviously the Rams. But Rodgers in the playoffs in week two, even in Philly, I'd be shaking in my boots. Collarbone or no. It's also a big thing for Eagles people, because I can't see us getting an easy run in the coming years. Rodgers still has years and years left smashing teams like Brady does. And within Eagles division, Cowboys will come back angry and fit next year. Even Redskins have ridiculous injuries that you'd assume they won't have next year. Jim Schwartz will be a head coach somewhere else next year, possibly even Giants, so there goes the Philly D which in my eyes has only been marginally less important than Wentz. You don't get many shots at home field in your career, so the time is now. If they fail, and they could, it can easily be years before they're back in this position.

[Macca 16,967]

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I hope you're right. I have a lot of time for the Saints and Vikes, and obviously the Rams. But Rodgers in the playoffs in week two, even in Philly, I'd be shaking in my boots. Collarbone or no. It's also a big thing for Eagles people, because I can't see us getting an easy run in the coming years. Rodgers still has years and years left smashing teams like Brady does. And within Eagles division, Cowboys will come back angry and fit next year. Even Redskins have ridiculous injuries that you'd assume they won't have next year. Jim Schwartz will be a head coach somewhere else next year, possibly even Giants, so there goes the Philly D which in my eyes has only been marginally less important than Wentz. You don't get many shots at home field in your career, so the time is now. If they fail, and they could, it can easily be years before they're back in this position.

I've often said here that I now prefer Rodgers as a pocket-passer with the occasional sojourn outside of the tackle box.  He might look agile & elusive outside of the pocket but I watch our games carefully and he's often caught out in very vulnerable position's. 

And opposition players are going to go after him even more so now ... drive his shoulder into the turf and break some more bones.  2 of the best QB's in recent times have been predominant pocket-passers (Brady & Peyton) so why not the same with Rodgers?  We need to invest in a couple of decent tight-ends too if he is to spend more time in the pocket ... and the offensive line needs a lot of maintenance.

I don't care about the aesthetics of the whole thing either ... sure, it's great watching Rodgers weaving & ducking and throwing hail-mary's but it's also impractical in terms of risk of injury.  We can't win games with Rodgers on the sidelines. 

We also need to look at having a decent back-up QB.  That might be Hundley but he'll need to play a number of decent games in order to convince me that he's any good.  The jury is out on that one.

Brady's ability to play dead and make his body go limp when tackled is something that Aaron needs to look at too.   The Pats just cross every T and dot every I don't they?  They're the team to beat - again.

Aaron is in his mid 30's now and he needs to be protected more than ever - he also needs more help as I've indicated above.  A feared running game could be handy too!

[Go the Biff 3,420]

9 hours ago, Macca said:

It won't be the Giants choice with Eli - they're imploding.   McAdoo & Reese are now in the firing line and the heat will be intense.

Eli calls the shots from here on in - I'd say he's probably had any number of offers and would be weighing those offers up.  The Giants have now made their bed and they now have to lie in it.  From my point of view,  Eli was their only real strong point.  Their roster is way below average and their coaching is poor.

The only pundits who seem to be supporting the decision to dump Eli are journo's who have never played top level sport or those who have an adoration for authority - i.e. nobody's who can't think for themselves.

This whole episode reinforces my belief that many who are in positions of responsibility are completely clueless.  My pet hate in sport are stupid decisions made by incompetent individuals who have too much power.

Ah yes, my 49er's playbook for most of the last 2 decades

[Macca 16,967]

35 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Ah yes, my 49er's playbook for most of the last 2 decades

Yes,  it happens a lot more than it should GtB.  Clubs/Teams should always conduct themselves with class,  respect,  dignity,  integrity and the like when dealing with their own champions (players or coaches)

You could probably explain it better than myself about what went wrong after the Steve Young era but in more recent times I thought the 49ers had something special going with the Harbaugh/Kaepernick combination.  3 x NFC Championship games in a row and then ......

The move to get Garoppolo is a good one though ... hope he works out for you.  He looked to have some real potential when filling in at New England.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Macca

[Go the Biff 3,420]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Yes,  it happens a lot more than it should GtB.  Clubs/Teams should always conduct themselves with class,  respect,  dignity,  integrity and the like when dealing with their own champions (players or coaches)

You could probably explain it better than myself about what went wrong after the Steve Young era but in more recent times I thought the 49ers had something special going with the Harbaugh/Kaepernick combination.  3 x NFC Championship games in a row and then ......

The move to get Garoppolo is a good one though ... hope he works out for you.  He looked to have some real potential when filling in at New England.

 

 

They did - but then your original point kicked ! While this year has sucked in the W/L column, I'm heartened by the way they are rebuilding this time. Got hopes for Jimmy G but will wait til next season before starting to assess him. Many players from many positions have looked great inside BB's systems and failed to shine after leaving the Pats

Can't complain though. My "second" team was always NE (all of my US sports allegiances bar the '49ers are Boston - Celtics, Sox etc) so I've had them to follow in playoffs while SF have been rubbish. Which is cool as they play each other so infrequently. As the Conference champ games of 2012/13 loomed I thought my loyalty might be tested if both won but by the time the first game began I knew my heart was San Francisco.

Funny how in NFL you can "like" a number of teams where as in AFL you love your own & pretty much hate everyone else

 

 

[Macca 16,967]

Just got through all of redzone - a few observations (haven't watched SNF) ...

• Vikings are a very good team & Detroit are just about finished.
• Saints superb,  Panthers largely outplayed & Atlanta couldn't score. 
• The Raiders are not very good  and the Chargers were also unimpressive - KC are really struggling on defence.  The AFC West could end up in anyone's hands. 
• Pats roll on and who is going to stop them?
• Baltimore are the dark horse and could get hot at the right time again
• The Rams are an excellent team - I'd be surprised if they don't win the NFC West. 
• The Jags beat a poor Colts team but credit must go to Bortles - he played a very good game.  The trouble for Jacksonville is that Tennessee won't go away.

[Gorgoroth 12,950]

Bloody Seattle winning and we have the Eagles this week then go to Seattle.

Must win in Seattle even if we lose to the Eagles.

Would have helped us if the Eagles won tho.

 

Rams are looking decent but still so many holes, our D is either good v run or v passing. Not string8ng many games together that holds both. Hope it starts this week.