Trade/Draft room

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

So you're saying Bryce Gibbs is Trengove and Gumbleton's Butcher?..So basically, Butcher's going to play a handful of AFL games in the next 3 seasons due to chronic injury..

Nostradamus would be impressed..

lol I'm just having deja vu back to pre draft 2006 when the age old debate of "tall vs. small" arose.

Gumbleton was a CHF/FF for Peel who was athletic, had a good set of hands - and basically seen as an upgraded version of Josh Kennedy (drafted at #4 the year before).

Gumbleton was also carrying a niggle during 2006 - which had hampered his abillity to perform on a consistant basis (see Butcher) over the course of the year.

Im by no means saying Butcher will be as badly injured as Gumbleton has been while at Essendon.

I'm just stating that in this instance, impressive midfielders (like Gibbs/Trengove) who have proven abillity that they can match it with grown men in the SANFL will probably be favoured over a KPP with "potential".

Just sharing my flashbacks.

[Ryan Dee 140]

I think both Watts and Jurrah are too versatile to be considered classical key forwards. Both will be more effective switching between the forwardline and the middle where they will create matchup havoc with their athleticism, skill and decision making. So we still need more of a 'stay at home' key forward like a Jarryd Roughead to provide a focal point for mine...

Your other parts of this post are fair enough. Except this....it's weak. You didn't asnwer my question. What will a Key Forward offer more thasn kicking goals and taking marks like Jurrah or Watts? Why cant one of them stay up forward while the other push's up the groud? It seems as though you just want a so called 'stay at home forward' for the sake of it.

[The O 39]

Lock it in, Eddie.

Melbourne will take Bryce Gibbs over Scott Gumbleton.

For whats it worth, I think Trengove's game and development is more like Mark Ricciuto than Bryce Gibbs as he has the added string to his bow of being able to play as a medium lead up forward.

I see the Dee's midfield development and future draft picks going along the lines of the Geelong, where players must be able to rotate through a number of positions (ala Chapman, Ablett, Selwood, Bartel, Ling, Corey - all spending some time in the forward line during games, or being able to play a role across the half back line as Enright, James Kelly do).

I envision the future midfield, where Grimes, Strauss, Bennell and Bruce can come into the midfield rotation for periods of the game from the half back line, where the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Blease, Davey, Jetta, Wonaeamirri, Green, Dunn, Trengove, and Scully can spend 'resting' periods of the game in the foward line. But more importantly they develop a number of midfielders who are capable of being able to kick 1-2 goals each game (or collectively be able to kick 10 goals a game), taking the pressure of the forwards to kick a winning score each week.

For those who noticed I omitted Jones and Moloney, I have my hesitations about whether they can spend time during a game as a forward due to Jones' kicking ability and ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard and Moloney's speed in the forward line.

I believe Bailey's current "experimentation" of players playing in different positions, is a step in the right direction, where players such as Morton, Petterd, Jetta, Dunn, Grimes and Bennell have obtained valuable experience for the Melbourne model (being a rotational one) in which DB will develop the game plan around. I'd appreciate your thoughts on such a rotational set up, and whether the Dee's should try Green, Sylvia, Davey and Wonaeamirri in the forward line for longer periods of the game than the midfield (due to Davey and Wonaeamirri's ability to put pressure on backmen, and Green and Sylvia being able to kick accurately and provide credible 3rd and 4th key targets).

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

For whats it worth, I think Trengove's game and development is more like Mark Ricciuto than Bryce Gibbs as he has the added string to his bow of being able to play as a medium lead up forward.

I see the Dee's midfield development and future draft picks going along the lines of the Geelong, where players must be able to rotate through a number of positions (ala Chapman, Ablett, Selwood, Bartel, Ling, Corey - all spending some time in the forward line during games, or being able to play a role across the half back line as Enright, James Kelly do).

I envision the future midfield, where Grimes, Strauss, Bennell and Bruce can come into the midfield rotation for periods of the game from the half back line, where the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Blease, Davey, Jetta, Wonaeamirri, Green, Dunn, Trengove, and Scully can spend 'resting' periods of the game in the foward line. But more importantly they develop a number of midfielders who are capable of being able to kick 1-2 goals each game (or collectively be able to kick 10 goals a game), taking the pressure of the forwards to kick a winning score each week.

For those who noticed I omitted Jones and Moloney, I have my hesitations about whether they can spend time during a game as a forward due to Jones' kicking ability and ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard and Moloney's speed in the forward line.

I believe Bailey's current "experimentation" of players playing in different positions, is a step in the right direction, where players such as Morton, Petterd, Jetta, Dunn, Grimes and Bennell have obtained valuable experience for the Melbourne model (being a rotational one) in which DB will develop the game plan around. I'd appreciate your thoughts on such a rotational set up, and whether the Dee's should try Green, Sylvia, Davey and Wonaeamirri in the forward line for longer periods of the game than the midfield (due to Davey and Wonaeamirri's ability to put pressure on backmen, and Green and Sylvia being able to kick accurately and provide credible 3rd and 4th key targets).

I agree with everything you've said in your post.

However, I see Trengove as an upgraded Jack Grimes more so than a Mark Ricciuto.

The Gibbs/Trengove comparison was just to correlate the scenarios between 2006 and 2009

[H_T 3,032]

For whats it worth, I think Trengove's game and development is more like Mark Ricciuto than Bryce Gibbs as he has the added string to his bow of being able to play as a medium lead up forward.

I see the Dee's midfield development and future draft picks going along the lines of the Geelong, where players must be able to rotate through a number of positions (ala Chapman, Ablett, Selwood, Bartel, Ling, Corey - all spending some time in the forward line during games, or being able to play a role across the half back line as Enright, James Kelly do).

I envision the future midfield, where Grimes, Strauss, Bennell and Bruce can come into the midfield rotation for periods of the game from the half back line, where the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Blease, Davey, Jetta, Wonaeamirri, Green, Dunn, Trengove, and Scully can spend 'resting' periods of the game in the foward line. But more importantly they develop a number of midfielders who are capable of being able to kick 1-2 goals each game (or collectively be able to kick 10 goals a game), taking the pressure of the forwards to kick a winning score each week.

For those who noticed I omitted Jones and Moloney, I have my hesitations about whether they can spend time during a game as a forward due to Jones' kicking ability and ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard and Moloney's speed in the forward line.

I believe Bailey's current "experimentation" of players playing in different positions, is a step in the right direction, where players such as Morton, Petterd, Jetta, Dunn, Grimes and Bennell have obtained valuable experience for the Melbourne model (being a rotational one) in which DB will develop the game plan around. I'd appreciate your thoughts on such a rotational set up, and whether the Dee's should try Green, Sylvia, Davey and Wonaeamirri in the forward line for longer periods of the game than the midfield (due to Davey and Wonaeamirri's ability to put pressure on backmen, and Green and Sylvia being able to kick accurately and provide credible 3rd and 4th key targets).

Good post The O - Have you left out the 'x'? (ie The Ox) or are you "The O".

Anyway i agree with what you have posted. Although I noticed you left out McLean in all of it, any particular reason?

A midfield rotation group consisting of : -

Sylvia, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Grimes, Petterd, Morton and perhaps Jetta and Wonaeamirri that can also push forward and kick goals is mouth watering to say the least.

[Demon Disciple 11,680]

Your other parts of this post are fair enough. Except this....it's weak. You didn't asnwer my question. What will a Key Forward offer more thasn kicking goals and taking marks like Jurrah or Watts? Why cant one of them stay up forward while the other push's up the groud? It seems as though you just want a so called 'stay at home forward' for the sake of it.

Hopefully Watts will develop into a Miller+Bate type (but only 1000 times better), in which he will present and lead up the ground. Jurrah just needs to be given freedom, enabling him to be Jurrah-esque 100% of the time.

If we need a more traditional FF, then we draft one (Panos would be a good fit, should he slip. Plus the pair of Panos and Trengove drafted together might make it a little more comfortable for them settling into Melbourne, ala Jetta and Bennell).

[Ryan Dee 140]

Hopefully Watts will develop into a Miller+Bate type (but only 1000 times better), in which he will present and lead up the ground. Jurrah just needs to be given freedom, enabling him to be Jurrah-esque 100% of the time.

If we need a more traditional FF, then we draft one (Panos would be a good fit, should he slip. Plus the pair of Panos and Trengove drafted together might make it a little more comfortable for them settling into Melbourne, ala Jetta and Bennell).

Exactly. This is what I am saying. We should pick the 2 best players and then with pick 18 we should get a FF like panos. What we shouldn't do is use our pick 2 for Butcher just because we want to fill this position.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

I'm just stating that in this instance, impressive midfielders (like Gibbs/Trengove) who have proven abillity that they can match it with grown men in the SANFL will probably be favoured over a KPP with "potential".

Just sharing my flashbacks.

yeah, i got what you meant, just taking the [censored]... :D

I think Trengove would be a great pick-up for us, but if we did go down that road, i think we'd have to start seriously looking at offloading a couple, cause the midfield's gonna get a bit cluttered in 2/3 years time. I don't see how Jones, Moloney & McLean are going to fit into the side if we take another 2 or 3 promising mids at this draft (in addition to the young mids we have)...& for mine we could really do with another KPF and obviously a quality ruckman...

[H_T 3,032]

I think Trengove would be a great pick-up for us, but if we did go down that road, i think we'd have to start seriously looking at offloading a couple, cause the midfield's gonna get a bit cluttered in 2/3 years time. I don't see how Jones, Moloney & McLean are going to fit into the side if we take another 2 or 3 promising mids at this draft (in addition to the young mids we have)...& for mine we could really do with another KPF and obviously a quality ruckman...

That's what I think. I also stated this in the opening post of the thread titled, "Depth for Melbournefc"...

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=16205

You can never have enough mids.......although there could be a trade happen in regard to this.

Edited August 11, 2009 by High Tower

[The O 39]

Good post The O - Have you left out the 'x'? (ie The Ox) or are you "The O".

Anyway i agree with what you have posted. Although I noticed you left out McLean in all of it, any particular reason?

A midfield rotation group consisting of : -

Sylvia, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Grimes, Petterd, Morton and perhaps Jetta and Wonaeamirri that can also push forward and kick goals is mouth watering to say the least.

High Tower there is no x, I am known as The O, although was a great admirer of The Ox.

No reason for leaving out McLean, but would consider him in the same capacity as Jones and Moloney as being unsuited to other positions. That being said, maybe DB should consider giving all 3 some time during his experimentation phase across the half back line. I do recall Mclean playing a couple of great games as a "sweeper" across the back line, and with Moloney's foot skills maybe he could develop some additional skills. Thus going well, it gives greater flexibility and options to the Bailey game plan going forward.

[B@te-man 0]

I'd have to say im against us taking a key foward with pick 2, if butcher sliped to 18, i would be happy to take him then but we must increase our midfield with polished players. If you have a great midfield supplying quality ball to the fowards, then it would make even the most average foward line look like gold, just look at west coast of 05, 06

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Your other parts of this post are fair enough. Except this....it's weak. You didn't asnwer my question. What will a Key Forward offer more thasn kicking goals and taking marks like Jurrah or Watts? Why cant one of them stay up forward while the other push's up the groud? It seems as though you just want a so called 'stay at home forward' for the sake of it.

weak?? pfft..

I would like to see us recruit a Jarryd Roughead type KPF who can take a strong contested mark and provide a focal point. Mainly because I see Watts playing as a Pavlich/Goodes type on-baller/forward down the track. I think some people see Jack simply as a KPF who leads out of the goal square and takes a contested mark and kicks goals.

If you look at his draft camp results, they indicate that he tested in the elite category for a midfielder let alone a tall. He was 2nd in the agility test, and finished 5th or 6th (can't remember) for repeat sprints, & 2nd in the 20 metre sprint. He also had the quickest reaction times of any player tested. People go on about how much of a freak athlete Naitanui is (which he is...) but Watts tested better than him in most of those categories. We're not seeing it as much because he's got the build of a boy atm. Once he builds some strength through his legs and upper body, we'll see those athletic qualities become more pronounced i think.

Aside from those athletic qualities he's got poise, vision and uses the ball well. He's already shown at VFL and U-18 level an ability to amass touches all over the ground.

Of course Watts will spend time playing as a lead-up forward, but I just think he's got too many strings to his bow to be limited to that role. Jurrah is a 3rd forward, and again a player who can push further up the ground and have an impact in addition to providing a target up forward.

So I mean, considering I think Watts will spend a lot of time playing further up the ground in the future, i'm not comfortable with Jurrah being the main target inside the forward 50. I think we need a specialist key forward like a Roughead or Butcher, or whatever, to give us a structure that medium talls like Bate & Jurrah can work around..

So in answer to your question, i think 'structure' is the key thing that a KPF would provide our forward line. If Watts spends more time further up the ground, a KPF will free up Bate & Jurrah to take the lesser tall defenders, and will also bring the small-forwards into the mix as they can feed off the spillages from contested marking situations a good KPF provides.

[old55 22,842]

I would like to see us recruit a Jarryd Roughead type KPF who can take a strong contested mark and provide a focal point.

It's rubbish night tonight and I'm hoping to find a diamond as big as my fist when I open the bin too.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

It's rubbish night tonight and I'm hoping to find a diamond as big as my fist when I open the bin too.

nice reply

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

That's what I think. I also stated this in the opening post of the thread titled, "Depth for Melbournefc"...

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=16205

You can never have enough mids.......although there could be a trade happen in regard to this.

Yeah, I read that post and you make some good points there...

I can't see how there will be enough room considering we'll have about 7 or 8 quality midfield prospects under the age of 24 in the mix after this draft....

Sylvia, Morton, Grimes, Scully, Blease, Strauss, Bennell (possibly...), then Trengove in addition to Davey, McLean, Jones & Moloney...that's quite a few..

I agree that its a good thing to have plenty of midfield talent, but at some stage we're going to have to address a couple of other glaring weaknesses we have...

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

yeah, i got what you meant, just taking the [censored]... :D

I think Trengove would be a great pick-up for us, but if we did go down that road, i think we'd have to start seriously looking at offloading a couple, cause the midfield's gonna get a bit cluttered in 2/3 years time. I don't see how Jones, Moloney & McLean are going to fit into the side if we take another 2 or 3 promising mids at this draft (in addition to the young mids we have)...& for mine we could really do with another KPF and obviously a quality ruckman...

one things for sure TANK, id be offloading mclean before jones, kojaks gona come good, brocks slower than tony lockett.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

It's rubbish night tonight and I'm hoping to find a diamond as big as my fist when I open the bin too.

ha ha...

Christ, we've got the funny pants on today haven't we??

I did say Roughead 'type', type being the key word...I didn't say, 'I WANT TO SEE US RECRUIT THE NEXT RIEWOLDT RIGHT NOW!!!!'

sheesh. tough crowd...

Edited August 11, 2009 by Scully The Tank Engine

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

one things for sure TANK, id be offloading mclean before jones, kojaks gona come good, brocks slower than tony lockett.

Your a hard man JTR...

I'd like to see Brock play next year with a full-preseason under his belt (inc.sprint training).

He'll come good if he can. I'm just concerned that the injuries have taken their toll like they have on Luke Ball.

We couldn't really get rid of Brock could we??? Not after the $10,000 donation and all...

[Ryan Dee 140]

weak?? pfft..

I would like to see us recruit a Jarryd Roughead type KPF who can take a strong contested mark and provide a focal point. Mainly because I see Watts playing as a Pavlich/Goodes type on-baller/forward down the track. I think some people see Jack simply as a KPF who leads out of the goal square and takes a contested mark and kicks goals.

If you look at his draft camp results, they indicate that he tested in the elite category for a midfielder let alone a tall. He was 2nd in the agility test, and finished 5th or 6th (can't remember) for repeat sprints, & 2nd in the 20 metre sprint. He also had the quickest reaction times of any player tested. People go on about how much of a freak athlete Naitanui is (which he is...) but Watts tested better than him in most of those categories. We're not seeing it as much because he's got the build of a boy atm. Once he builds some strength through his legs and upper body, we'll see those athletic qualities become more pronounced i think.

Aside from those athletic qualities he's got poise, vision and uses the ball well. He's already shown at VFL and U-18 level an ability to amass touches all over the ground.

Of course Watts will spend time playing as a lead-up forward, but I just think he's got too many strings to his bow to be limited to that role. Jurrah is a 3rd forward, and again a player who can push further up the ground and have an impact in addition to providing a target up forward.

So I mean, considering I think Watts will spend a lot of time playing further up the ground in the future, i'm not comfortable with Jurrah being the main target inside the forward 50. I think we need a specialist key forward like a Roughead or Butcher, or whatever, to give us a structure that medium talls like Bate & Jurrah can work around..

So in answer to your question, i think 'structure' is the key thing that a KPF would provide our forward line. If Watts spends more time further up the ground, a KPF will free up Bate & Jurrah to take the lesser tall defenders, and will also bring the small-forwards into the mix as they can feed off the spillages from contested marking situations a good KPF provides.

Your not showing enough respect to Jurrah or Watts....as for this talk he will work up the groud, well yes he will but he will also be in the forward 50, like Nick Riewoldt. Back to the point....if there Wassssssss a good enough pick for a KPF then we would pick him....BUT THERE IS NOT. Pick the 2 best players and make your team from that. We can still get a KPF at pick 18. My point will be proven when we DO NOT pick Butcher at pick 2 in the draft.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Mr Morton

[H_T 3,032]

High Tower there is no x, I am known as The O, although was a great admirer of The Ox.

No reason for leaving out McLean, but would consider him in the same capacity as Jones and Moloney as being unsuited to other positions. That being said, maybe DB should consider giving all 3 some time during his experimentation phase across the half back line. I do recall Mclean playing a couple of great games as a "sweeper" across the back line, and with Moloney's foot skills maybe he could develop some additional skills. Thus going well, it gives greater flexibility and options to the Bailey game plan going forward.

Thanks. The O it is.

This has been discussed on another two threads. In relation to Moloney, McLean & Jones. With the possible drafting of Scully & Trengove.

I know you can never have enough midfielders, do you think there is enough room for Moloney, McLean & Jones in the team...or is it possible they can find new tasks within the team? Or is there even a possibility one of them could be squeezed out for a possible trade?

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

How come I can't get an avatar up and running? lol

[The O 39]

one things for sure TANK, id be offloading mclean before jones, kojaks gona come good, brocks slower than tony lockett.

Is it a coincedence that both McLean and Jones appear one dimensional and appear only suited to the midfield, and as such should be considered for trading?? I think not.

I think both Jones and McLean should be tried in various positions and roles off the half back and forward lines until the end of 2010. If both cannot add any flexibility or options to the team structure, then it would come at an opportune time to trade them to the GC, where Jones could spend more time surfing and brock doing burnouts with the locals. With top draft picks becoming even more valuable over the next few years, this could be a win/win for both players and MFC.

Edited August 11, 2009 by The O

[H_T 3,032]

I agree that its a good thing to have plenty of midfield talent, but at some stage we're going to have to address a couple of other glaring weaknesses we have...

My thinking precisely, the midfield is the immediate priority to be addressed, the others which could be addressed are the KPF and Ruck posts. I know you refer to it 'as some stage', but if things fall into place these could be addressed or at least strengthened sooner than we think.

[Fat Tony 5,090]

If Dangerfield is homesick we should throw the kitchen sink at him and try to nab him in the PSD. Even if we have to go back into debt. (Please don't hurt me.) Imagine our midfield with the addition of Scully, Trengrove and Dangerfield.

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Your not showing enough respect to Jurrah or Watts....as for this talk he will work up the groud, well yes he will but he will also be in the forward 50, like Nick Riewoldt. Back to the point....if there Wassssssss a good enough pick for a KPF then we would pick him....BUT THERE IS NOT. Pick the 2 best players and make your team from that. We can still get a KPF at pick 18. My point will be proven when we DO NOT pick Butcher at pick 2 in the draft.

How the hell am I not showing Jurrah or Watts enough respect when I just gave Watts one of the biggest wraps of all time, and said that Jurrah was dynamic enough to be pushed through the middle as well???

Jurrah is 189cm's thats not KP height in anyone's book. He's undersized for a KPP, any reasonable person would admit that much...I also did 'explicitly' say that Watts will spend his share of time up forward. As for the last thing, we may not get the KPP player we're looking for at 18, cause there's no KPP depth in this draft as has been well documented...