2009 NAB Cup RD 1 V Hawthorn

[montasaurus 0]

The post re Rd 1 was good, but I think we were getting to far ahead as there is the NAB cup 1st that will determine 6 - 10 spots. Not sure if there are restrictions on playing rookies so I have named a few.

FF Martin, Newton, Maric

HF Watts, Miller , Morton

C Strauss, McLean ©,Grimes

HB Petterd, Warnock, Sylvia

FB Whelan, Garland, Frawley

R Johnson, Moloney, Jones

Int (from): Spencer, Valenti, Zomer, Jurrah, Blease, Buckley, Bate, Bail, Jetta, Bennell

Rested:Bartram, Bell, Bruce, Davey, Green, Dunn, Jamar, McDonald, Rivers, Robertson, Wheatley, Wonaeamirri

Roughies: (NAB challenge games if we loose)

9. Cheney, Kyle

25. McNamara, Tom

26. Meesen, John

Really looking forward to seeing a few of the boys yet to play a senior game and those drafted this year. I think we could set a record for the most inexperienced side ever fielded in this game!

[DeeM 42]

Bruce, Davey, Green, Jamar, Rivers, Wheatley, Wonaeamirri

all rested????????

[montasaurus 0]

Bruce, Davey, Green, Jamar, Rivers, Wheatley, Wonaeamirri

all rested????????

I can't remember the last preseason game bruce played, Rivers still recovering = unlikely, robbo as well. Davey and Wona keep on cotton wool until the season proper. Green or Mcclean to rest (who ever is not ©), Jamar - No thankyou, give zomar and or spencer a run. Martin could go in to the ruck as well

The really good thing about this list was it was hard to pick who to play rather then who to "fill" the position like what happened a lot this year. I really think we will go young to test a few of the boys therefore some of the snr players most likely will be left out. Hind sight - maybe 1 or 2 of the young ones to miss to be replaced by a couple of the "rested" list

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No reason at all to keep either Davey Wona, McLean or Green in cotton wool. Spencer might get a run but Zomer is not even in Sandy 1sts. I would rather play a main squad prospect.

Given the list I think we have no other choice but to go young.

[montasaurus 0]

No reason at all to keep either Davey Wona, McLean or Green in cotton wool. Spencer might get a run but Zomer is not even in Sandy 1sts. I would rather play a main squad prospect.

Given the list I think we have no other choice but to go young.

yeah fair call, probably went slightly over on the youth policy, but its good have 2 or 3 all in contention for 1 position, but when this happens 3 or 4 times it starts to show that we have a bit of depth (be it young) that is starting to take shape. this was exactly what I was wanting to look at, not our best 18 but what 25 do we want to try across our 18.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We have depth in numbers not quality.

[Kit Walker 225]

Particularly given we are to play Hawthorn in Rd 1 of pre-season, I would expect that we would go pretty close to playing full strength minus those who are injured.

That probably rules out Robertson, Rivers and McLean(?). Expanded bench so Watts, Strauss, Blease and Bail are the most likely to get a run of the new players.

Spencer may be a chance but I still suspect it will be Jamar and Johnson initially with Meesen as the third choice if one is injured. Spencer more likely to play NAB Challenge or VFL pre-season at this stage.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Particularly given we are to play Hawthorn in Rd 1 of pre-season, I would expect that we would go pretty close to playing full strength minus those who are injured.

That probably rules out Robertson, Rivers and McLean(?). Expanded bench so Watts, Strauss, Blease and Bail are the most likely to get a run of the new players.

Spencer may be a chance but I still suspect it will be Jamar and Johnson initially with Meesen as the third choice if one is injured. Spencer more likely to play NAB Challenge or VFL pre-season at this stage.

Until he went down with glandular fever last last season, Spencer was in front of Meesen. Meesen would have to do something pretty good to be 3rd in line.

[Kit Walker 225]

Until he went down with glandular fever last last season, Spencer was in front of Meesen. Meesen would have to do something pretty good to be 3rd in line.

Even with the good reviews, I'm not sure Spencer ever hit double figures in terms of possessions which indicates that (outside his actual ruckwork), he has a very long way to go.

Clearly Meesen does as well, although he was named in the best in a game late season, but he is also a member of the senior list with a further two years of his contract to go. I think they'll want to see how he's progressing against AFL opposition more than Spencer at the moment.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Even with the good reviews, I'm not sure Spencer ever hit double figures in terms of possessions which indicates that (outside his actual ruckwork), he has a very long way to go.

Clearly Meesen does as well, although he was named in the best in a game late season, but he is also a member of the senior list with a further two years of his contract to go. I think they'll want to see how he's progressing against AFL opposition more than Spencer at the moment.

I am not sure if racking up stacks of possessions is critical for a competent ruckman in a capable midfield. We need to remember that Spencer is just 19 and still a rookie. I think his upside is far greater than Meesen who has had 5 years in the system and is woeful in the VFL. The length remaining on his contract may be just a reminder of the trade we got wrong!

Meesen only got his chance to play at Spencer's misfortune.

But its put up time for Meesen. Either he shows something in the first half of the year otherwise he will wallow the remainder of his contract at the end of the East Cranbourne railway line.

[montasaurus 0]

if we were to loose to Hawthorn I think both will play the remaining NAB challenge games. Why risk jamar/johnson if both the younger ruckman are up to the level required. I agree meesen is to play snr footy regulary this year or will be gone!

[Kit Walker 225]

I am not sure if racking up stacks of possessions is critical for a competent ruckman in a capable midfield. We need to remember that Spencer is just 19 and still a rookie. I think his upside is far greater than Meesen who has had 5 years in the system and is woeful in the VFL. The length remaining on his contract may be just a reminder of the trade we got wrong!

Meesen only got his chance to play at Spencer's misfortune.

But its put up time for Meesen. Either he shows something in the first half of the year otherwise he will wallow the remainder of his contract at the end of the East Cranbourne railway line.

Surprisingly, I don't think we're too far apart in this.

Meesen needs to show something, Spencer is very raw still, and those two factors will probably mean that Meesen gets a shot in the AFL pre-season first.

The only other point I'd make is that even the best ruckmen only average something like 20-25% hitouts to advantage so they need more strings to their bow. The best ruckmen last year were Cox, Hille & Sandilands and all of them had an impact on the stats sheet.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Surprisingly, I don't think we're too far apart in this.

Agree

Meesen needs to show something, Spencer is very raw still, and those two factors will probably mean that Meesen gets a shot in the AFL pre-season first.

Well by your argument, Meesen needs to show something first before your conclusion happens

The only other point I'd make is that even the best ruckmen only average something like 20-25% hitouts to advantage so they need more strings to their bow. The best ruckmen last year were Cox, Hille & Sandilands and all of them had an impact on the stats sheet.

............But little impact on the ground where it counts. Were they actually the best???

Just dents the argument about you have to have a champion dominating ruckman to win. They are nice to have but not as essential as having a competitive midfield. And neither Essendon, WCE or Freo had one.

As for hitouts to advantage, I dont think Polly Farmer could have helped our woeful midfield last year.

[Kit Walker 225]

............But little impact on the ground where it counts. Were they actually the best???

Just dents the argument about you have to have a champion dominating ruckman to win. They are nice to have but not as essential as having a competitive midfield. And neither Essendon, WCE or Freo had one.

As for hitouts to advantage, I dont think Polly Farmer could have helped our woeful midfield last year.

Cox and Sandilands were all-Australian and I think saying Hille was next in line isn't particularly controversial, so yes. And they had a big impact, it's just a pity (for WC, Freo & Essendon) that they had very few mates that played anywhere near as well.

Ruckmen are important, but no individual position on the ground is essential. Carlton have a (nearly) hundred goal full forward and couldn't make the eight. Comparing the ruckman with the midfield is a little unfair though, in today's game that is about 8 players!

No arguments on the last point - unfortunately we were atrocious.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Comparing the ruckman with the midfield is a little unfair though, in today's game that is about 8 players!

I wasn't comparing them. My point is that in the absence of at least a competent competitive midfield, a Dean Cox /top class ruckman is nullified by a superior opposition midfield.

When was the last time a ruckman dominated at AFL level and influenced/changed match outcomes? Not for a number of years.

[DeeM 42]

Considering our no 1 and 2 ruckmen aren't that good as it is, they need all the practise they can get, maybe 3 ruckmen?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,777]

If it's anything like the little league team Bailey sent down to Geelong in last year's NAB Cup, here is my likely team.

B Bartram Martin Frawley

HB Grimes Garland Petterd

C Bail Dunn Buckley

HF Watts Bate Morton

F Jurrah Newton Wonaeamirri

Foll Meesen Sylvia Jones

INT Spencer Cheney Bennell

Maric McNamara Jetta

Sylvia to skipper the side and play his first full game in the middle!!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Considering our no 1 and 2 ruckmen aren't that good as it is, they need all the practise they can get, maybe 3 ruckmen?

Right so Jamar and PJ need all the practice they can get so we are going to play 3 ruckman. Gotcha.

If it's anything like the little league team Bailey sent down to Geelong in last year's NAB Cup, here is my likely team.

It wont be unless there are injuries. When we played Geelong we had barely 24 fit to play.

Your side is akin to throwing them to the wolves. I dont see the benefit of this with an absence of experience and leadership on the grand. I am surprised you did not squeeze a few of our successful little league side as a confirmation of the youth policy

Sylvia to skipper the side and play his first full game in the middle!!

Unless the captaincy rests with Junior why wouldn't you allow the new captain to start getting the on field leadership going as soon as possible.

The side should contain a blend of the new players and older heads. There are a number of expereienced players who need to show their mettle this year.

[Roost It 1,434]

If it's anything like the little league team Bailey sent down to Geelong in last year's NAB Cup, here is my likely team.

B Bartram Martin Frawley

HB Grimes Garland Petterd

C Bail Dunn Buckley

HF Watts Bate Morton

F Jurrah Newton Wonaeamirri

Foll Meesen Sylvia Jones

INT Spencer Cheney Bennell

Maric McNamara Jetta

Sylvia to skipper the side and play his first full game in the middle!!

I think you'll find we'll be playing the strongest side we can. We need to win all the early games we can. We need a sponsor, the money and to sell as many memberships as we can. Playing that side would be unlikely to help us in any way. Maybe next year though!