What's all this talk of winning premierships and sustained success attracting kids?

Freo and Collingwood have tonnes of young fans

What's all this talk of winning premierships and sustained success attracting kids?

Freo and Collingwood have tonnes of young fans

seems to be a point lost on many !!

more the point... we only follow winners??

seems 29,619 might disagree ???

What's all this talk of winning premierships and sustained success attracting kids?

Freo and Collingwood have tonnes of young fans

Freo is in an AFL made two club state so the great majority of kids realistically are either going to follow WCE or Freo. It also has a strong legacy and history within the Freemantle region. They have it on a plate regardless of their losing culture.

Is there are a more well known club/brand than Collingwood? Collingwood carries a unique history and culture that has provided high recognition of the famous jumper backed by unrivalled success with 13 premierships (last in 1990) and more grand final appearances (last in 2003) than any other club. Its been a well run well supported club and has been for a long time. They have the greatest sporting tradition and culture of any club in Australia. Opposition have hated and marvelled at this tradition as far back as the 1920s.

MFC have few if any of those aspects that Freo and Collingwood have.

How many of the 29,619 members are $50 a year winners or are a free child membership on the back of an adult membership? How many of those members spend further money on Club functions and souvenirs etc? That's the questions that should be asked.

Kids may like winners at a distance..but they appreciate effort and involvement at close quarters !!

Many a Brownlow winner wasnt in a winnng team..but had huge followings !! Dont underestimate the power of effort put it bearing dividends. Whos talking of old photos ?? irrelevent.

I can tell you now from the observations of 8 and 10 years olds over a period of time, your view holds little water.

The kids I have observed through my children's school, junior sporting teams etc have had coaching clinics with AFL footy players and some of the kids have fathers who are ex AFL players or are still actively involved in AFL coaching aere also involved. The kids are not so swayed by the close quarters stuff when it is just a one off visit. They talk about and focus on the simple winning and losing situation and ladder positions. They are more focussed on footy scores.

There is little enduring interest about the Brownlow medal and who has won it.

Freo is in an AFL made two club state so the great majority of kids realistically are either going to follow WCE or Freo. It also has a strong legacy and history within the Freemantle region. They have it on a plate regardless of their losing culture.

I also know a few WC supporters who buy Freo memberships because it is the only way they can get access to the derbys, they said it is quite common over there.

I can tell you now from the observations of 8 and 10 years olds over a period of time, your view holds little water.

The kids I have observed through my children's school, junior sporting teams etc have had coaching clinics with AFL footy players and some of the kids have fathers who are ex AFL players or are still actively involved in AFL coaching aere also involved. The kids are not so swayed by the close quarters stuff when it is just a one off visit. They talk about and focus on the simple winning and losing situation and ladder positions. They are more focussed on footy scores.

There is little enduring interest about the Brownlow medal and who has won it.

Take the blinkers off, because that's not the view I get at my kids school and from my nephew's. They appreciate effort, and they understand that as long as you give your best effort there is always a next week whether you win or lose. Whether you win or lose is irrelevant as long as you try things and have a dip. These are 6-7 year olds. At the local Auskick, kids are encouraged either way. It starts with the parents teachings. Sometimes the kids are swayed by one off visits.

Some of my kids friends believe that the MFC Grand Old Flag song is the best, and their Bulldog and essendon supporters.

And there is interest in the Brownlow Medal and who has won it from kids, regardless of what you think.

Take the blinkers off, because that's not the view I get at my kids school and from my nephew's. They appreciate effort, and they understand that as long as you give your best effort there is always a next week whether you win or lose. Whether you win or lose is irrelevant as long as you try things and have a dip. These are 6-7 year olds. At the local Auskick, kids are encouraged either way. It starts with the parents teachings. Sometimes the kids are swayed by one off visits.

Some of my kids friends believe that the MFC Grand Old Flag song is the best, and their Bulldog and essendon supporters.

And there is interest in the Brownlow Medal and who has won it from kids, regardless of what you think.

You miscbnstrued my post for your own needs. I only referred to winning or losing in regard to AFL teams not their own team or what they do at a clinic.

Its great they like the Grand Old Flag but it does not result in high Auskick registrations suggesting they follow Melbourne. That's the point.

If MFC is going to make any footprint in Casey its going to take a sustained and committed involvement over a long long period to develop the required regional support that some salivate over. It wont be done by one off visits at a football clinic.

The Brownlow Medal is neither here nor there for kids. Few of that vintage would be able to name the past three winners ....regardless of what you think.

You miscbnstrued my post for your own needs. I only referred to winning or losing in regard to AFL teams not their own team or what they do at a clinic.

I think its you who have miscontrued what maybe around you. Your experience may well be cynical children whose only attitude is win win win. Ive met and coached a lot of kids over the years, in a number of sports ( admittedly not for 4-5 years now ) that a blinkered approach to selecting a team was very removed from yours.

Kids will develop a comraderie with people who put in effort. They are tangible..they are real. Suffice to say my experiences arent yours.

Again if barracking was only about winning...hardly any of us would be here following Melbourne !!

If MFC is going to make any footprint in Casey its going to take a sustained and committed involvement over a long long period to develop the required regional support that some salivate over. It wont be done by one off visits at a football clinic.

Yes it will need sustained and committed involvement from the start - there is no end.

I think its you who have miscontrued what maybe around you. Your experience may well be cynical children whose only attitude is win win win. Ive met and coached a lot of kids over the years, in a number of sports ( admittedly not for 4-5 years now ) that a blinkered approach to selecting a team was very removed from yours.

Kids will develop a comraderie with people who put in effort. They are tangible..they are real. Suffice to say my experiences arent yours.

Again if barracking was only about winning...hardly any of us would be here following Melbourne !!

Cut the cliche about the "win,win,win". For kids of that age its the experience of the involvement in the playing of the game. However for a team they support they will find it difficult to hold that support where the team is perennially last and losing. Its just not an enjoyable experience for them particularly when it happens week after week. They dont want to go to games.

Cameo appearances by AFL players at one off footy clinics do not represent the effort that is required to develop camaraderie. For junior footballer its the parents and others that are visible and present as team managers, coaches, runners and clubman that create the real camaraderie

Barracking is about more than winning...but under 10s dont fully understand that at their stage in life particularly when it comes to supporting an AFL team. In fact from poor attendances at MFC games, I think a few adults struggle with it too.

And dont bang on about different experiences. They're really the same and you are just nit picking to support a flimsy argument.

Hell, sometimes I have trouble naming the past three Brownlow winners sometimes, just like the last 3 melbourne Cup winners, as long as the kids are aware of the award and what it means in AFL football....that it is the highest honour.

The Brownlow Medal is all part of the AFL blur of interest with kids. Its not a specific or special pinnacle for them at that age no matter how we are apt as adults to define it.

And dont bang on about different experiences. They're really the same and you are just nit picking to support a flimsy argument.

what utter crap !! Someone offer another view and it doesnt suit your stance ..fine..

Youre the one proffering the idea that kids support winners..then dismiss its importance..Want it both ways ??

Again you choose selctively isolated occurence to back your view.

What many of us are suggestign is that should the Club move into the area in the capacity of some training, predominanantly Summer and occasional other times, that if an allignment is formed with the Scorps and a campaign is undertaken to fly the flag with visitations etc through schools programs etc tyhen there is a very real popssibility the calibre of our following will increase.

You do this in any other filed and the rsults are on scoreboards al lover history..but please..feel free to dismiss this phenomenon as cliche !!

Quite simply RR I dont think you get it..or simply choose to ignore what doesnt suit. Try as you may..many of us can read through that rubbish. We too have experience to fall on..and strangely it doesnt marry with yours.

You under credit kids if you think its only about winning...or possibly some have limited exposure to more reaching values

what utter crap !! Someone offer another view and it doesnt suit your stance ..fine..

Youre the one proffering the idea that kids support winners..then dismiss its importance..Want it both ways ??

Again you choose selctively isolated occurence to back your view.

What many of us are suggestign is that should the Club move into the area in the capacity of some training, predominanantly Summer and occasional other times, that if an allignment is formed with the Scorps and a campaign is undertaken to fly the flag with visitations etc through schools programs etc tyhen there is a very real popssibility the calibre of our following will increase.

You do this in any other filed and the rsults are on scoreboards al lover history..but please..feel free to dismiss this phenomenon as cliche !!

Quite simply RR I dont think you get it..or simply choose to ignore what doesnt suit. Try as you may..many of us can read through that rubbish. We too have experience to fall on..and strangely it doesnt marry with yours.

You under credit kids if you think its only about winning...or possibly some have limited exposure to more reaching values

It merely suits your position to continually insiinuate that I credit kids with only being focussed on winning. I have not, so please dont continue to push that silly line because its not true.

I will put it simply......

1. Kids prefer to go to the footy and support and be interested in a team that is winning rather than losing. Simple. Its part of the experience they enjoy. They dont enjoy watching losing teams in any sport and they dont understand it. It a better experience for them if the team they follow wins as opposed to losing. Its not about being only focussed on winning just a preference from the experience.

2. Connection and camraderie with kids will only develop through a sustained involvement at local club level. One off cameos at footy clinics are not enough to win kids to any resounding change of heart. Kids are smarter and more capable than that.

3. The Casey option is a worthwhile initiative (I have said this before a number of times. Why do you repeatedly saying I am ignoring it Bub? Thats just being silly again.) but unless point 2 is acheived the impact will only be small and for any lasting community connection may indeed to take at least a decade or a generation. We have to tap the mine but its likely that the gold is lower than everyone expects and will take some considerable financial commitment up front over time to extract.

The Brownlow Medal is all part of the AFL blur of interest with kids. Its not a specific or special pinnacle for them at that age no matter how we are apt as adults to define it.

But that IYO.

IMO it is a special pinnacle for them................as long as they are allowed to stay up and watch it.

But that IYO.

IMO it is a special pinnacle for them................as long as they are allowed to stay up and watch it.

Its the most boring football TV event going around. I rather kids watch Freo.....hang on!

"Daddy, why do all the women have blonde hair and fake tans?" :D

It merely suits your position to continually insiinuate that I credit kids with only being focussed on winning. I have not, so please dont continue to push that silly line because its not true.

Mate you started it.. now you back away..intersting

I will put it simply......

1. Kids prefer to go to the footy and support and be interested in a team that is winning rather than losing. Simple. Its part of the experience they enjoy. They dont enjoy watching losing teams in any sport and they dont understand it. It a better experience for them if the team they follow wins as opposed to losing. Its not about being only focussed on winning just a preference from the experience.

Now youre getting ultra simplistic..and further distancing yourslef . And you think Im cliche !!

2. Connection and camraderie with kids will only develop through a sustained involvement at local club level. One off cameos at footy clinics are not enough to win kids to any resounding change of heart. Kids are smarter and more capable than that.

Who has ever suggested one off cameos?? YOU !!!!!!!!!! Do you ever bother to read ??

3. The Casey option is a worthwhile initiative (I have said this before a number of times. Why do you repeatedly saying I am ignoring it Bub? Thats just being silly again.) but unless point 2 is acheived the impact will only be small and for any lasting community connection may indeed to take at least a decade or a generation. We have to tap the mine but its likely that the gold is lower than everyone expects and will take some considerable financial commitment up front over time to extract.

You really want your toast buttered on both sides dont you. If you conced the Casey iniative then try to acknowledge how that pertains to the over all community involvment that might ensue.

Some of us see the big picture..some just pick the bits that suit. Are you now seeing the big picture ??

I think it has a lot more to do with perceived success that allows children to follow some teams more strongly than others.

At the school i work at, very rarely do any kids switch teams, and despite 7 years in the widerness (at least three quarters of their lives) the Carlton brand has always been very strong, as has the Essendon despite their recent history.

But beyond all else is the "strength in numbers" aspect to supporting a footy club that kids love, and of course here i speak of Collingwood.

Even after a loss, pies fans feel free to talk about footy, and any barb you give them about their team being no good, they basically respond with "but it's collingwood."

One Premiership in 50 years, not one during any of their lives, and yet they sincerely feel part of the best and biggest club going around. I feel sorry for the 3-4 dees fans in the school, because not only do they go it alone, but there's a very slim chance they will be able to grow their numbers. Pies fans meanwhile attract kids who otherwise know nothing about footy, and usually continue to, because they will claim to follow the "mighty" black and white.

The hows and whys can be debated all day, with little reward.

All i care about is how we get more kids to celebrate the dees, and i don't think there's any quick fix.

Wins, and characters like Aussie surely help, but our numbers weren't higher in '04-'06. I think our public perception that we are a weak cub who require AFL assistance gets down to the kids' level and hurts their view of our footy club.

Sure they don't read the papers, but they watch the footy, hear it on the radio and see it on the tv.

Somehow we need to build every achievement we have whilst continually displaying a powerful club image.

I think our public perception that we are a weak cub who require AFL assistance gets down to the kids' level and hurts their view of our footy club.

Sure they don't read the papers, but they watch the footy, hear it on the radio and see it on the tv.

Somehow we need to build every achievement we have whilst continually displaying a powerful club image.

This I think is very relevent. The "perception" Its along these lines I think much will be achieved. i.e Melbourne appearing to be doing things in a positve and forward manner..Winning would be icing. If kids are exposed to a positive experience of the club etc then this builds a trust in which the kids are able to invest in.

Mate you started it.. now you back away..intersting

Now youre getting ultra simplistic..and further distancing yourslef . And you think Im cliche !!

Who has ever suggested one off cameos?? YOU !!!!!!!!!! Do you ever bother to read ??

You really want your toast buttered on both sides dont you. If you conced the Casey iniative then try to acknowledge how that pertains to the over all community involvment that might ensue.

Some of us see the big picture..some just pick the bits that suit. Are you now seeing the big picture ??

Bub, I dont need to back away or distance myself because my position has been clearly outlined and consistent. I only reinforced to make it clear to you. I am glad you finally got it. I am also glad you have not denied misrepresenting my position. But the "you started" line is very much a response of a 7 to 8 yo child.

At present, my comment on one off cameos is in reference to how AFL clubs currently couch much of their local community involvement. Its takes more than that. Many clubs have not worked that out.

I have always conceeded that the Casey initiative is a necessary and worthwhile initiative. I just think for MFC to be in a financial position to commit time and resources to Casey to provide the necessary community involvement and develop the necessary nexus for the Casey community to feel involved in MFC that will bear significant reward to MFC will take a long long time. At present, there is no nexus. We are planning on using it as a Summer training base and a possible allegiance with Casey in the VFL. Its a small start. But we have to go from being nothing in the area to something that is relevant to the Community. Its takes time and will take a far deeper relationship by MFC that what is envisaged at this point.

Dont worry about the big picture Bub. I see it more clearly than you will ever aspire too.

Premierships generally breed numbers................end of story.

Richmond have always been touted as a club with a huge supporter base through the media. But I don't agree, maybe 15 years ago they did. But their lack of success and mediocre display and lack of finals showings have left them fall behind. They only have just over 30,000 members (we're not far behind), and the likes of Geelong, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood and Hawthorn, even St.Kilda are well ahead in terms of numbers and have overtaken them).

What WE need is Bailey, Stynes is to make smart decisions, and build a side and club that will compete not just to reach the top 8 or top 4, but to aim high in every department AIM FOR A PREMIERSHIP - all hands on deck, enough is enough. Sandringham won a three-peat of premierships, before that Geelong won one. Our core lot of players who have participated in those premierships, like Sylvia, Wheatley, C.Johnson, Bell, P.Johnson, Dunn, Bate, Jamar, etc need to take the next step.

C'MON DEMONS!!!!!!!

Dont worry about the big picture Bub. I see it more clearly than you will ever aspire too.

Oh thankyou..I feel so much better knowing visionaries as yourself are around. when it increases from the narrow 15deg..please inform the rest of us...we'll sleep even sounder

Its never been proffered that improvements and results from invested efforts by the club wouldnt take time. It also seems an unwarranted assumption that the club ( MFc ) would necessarily follow any token path taken before. i get the distinct impression ( warning personal inference ) that Connolly and indeed the whole club now understand that is needs to be relevent to a 'community " in order to sustain its existance. This community is obviously its membership. They know it needs to be grown and things grow from seeds. This is, again as I understand it, the core rationale of expanding its sphere of influence beyond the CBD. There is the simple practicality of Casey.. but i suspect this is only a part of the vison that Melbourne has in this area.

This is not to say that MFC are placing all its hopes in one basket..but adding a basket to its inventory.

And NO You were quite happy to make much of kids only being interested in Winners..you said it wear it.

I have always conceeded that the Casey initiative is a necessary and worthwhile initiative. I just think for MFC to be in a financial position to commit time and resources to Casey to provide the necessary community involvement...

It doesn't take a large amount of dosh to send players into the schools, donate MFC stuff to the raffle at the local school fetes, and run clinics etc, on a regular basis.

These are the things that are going to connect with kids, and it's a matter of making the effort, rather than splashing the cash.

Oh thankyou..I feel so much better knowing visionaries as yourself are around. :

And so you should...

And NO You were quite happy to make much of kids only being interested in Winners..you said it wear it.

...especially when you keep trying to misrepresent my statements. Shame on you.

Premierships generally breed numbers................end of story.

Richmond have always been touted as a club with a huge supporter base through the media. But I don't agree, maybe 15 years ago they did. But their lack of success and mediocre display and lack of finals showings have left them fall behind. They only have just over 30,000 members (we're not far behind), and the likes of Geelong, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood and Hawthorn, even St.Kilda are well ahead in terms of numbers and have overtaken them).

What WE need is Bailey, Stynes is to make smart decisions, and build a side and club that will compete not just to reach the top 8 or top 4, but to aim high in every department AIM FOR A PREMIERSHIP - all hands on deck, enough is enough. Sandringham won a three-peat of premierships, before that Geelong won one. Our core lot of players who have participated in those premierships, like Sylvia, Wheatley, C.Johnson, Bell, P.Johnson, Dunn, Bate, Jamar, etc need to take the next step.

C'MON DEMONS!!!!!!!

Richmond built up a powerful supporter base from 1967 to 1980 when they 5 flags. I believe there are alot of silent supporters at Richmond. I think their membership has plateaued around 30,000 for some time. If they were to turn the corner I think numbers will improve. However they wont do it with Wallet in the seat. Despite some improved performances they still have a crud list with some key deficiencies.

Richmond built up a powerful supporter base from 1967 to 1980 when they 5 flags. I believe there are alot of silent supporters at Richmond. I think their membership has plateaued around 30,000 for some time. If they were to turn the corner I think numbers will improve. However they wont do it with Wallet in the seat. Despite some improved performances they still have a crud list with some key deficiencies.

How they wish they had picked Franklin instead of Tambling.