Generation dee

Dear Craig bird and Luke Parker.

I will pay for your removalist fee for you both to come down and join the demon revolution next season.

Yours sincerely,

Generation dee.

Some horrible umpiring.

Byrnes sub, no late changes. Brandon jack the Sydney sub. They look very tall......

I'm not at all advocating we will win, however Sydney have played their past 2 games in very heavy conditions against port and essendon. I understand they have had an 8 day break, however in an age of rotations and higher intensity running, I just wonder if Sydney will be a little heavy in the legs.

Sydney have always been a team who contol the contests and force you to kick to contests. If we can get a good start, pressure them from the first bounce and get the footy in space, we could be in this game long enough to make Neil cordy retire from writing any article ever again. Hopefully

The Saints haven't been on the bottom for 7 years GD, your a better poster than that.

I understand your point. I'm not in anyway saying we are close to a flag- our past 7 years are testament to that. However, Carlton, have missed out on their chance or were never in with one to start with. Which I'm sure that you and I can look at with a sense of satisfaction despite our clubs misfortune!

I understand what you said, have you looked at the AFL ladder, Carlton are a lot closer to glory than us, FMD our list is pathetic.

so by that theory st kilda are closer than the giants?

Need you go on ? Why not you always do.

Any chance in a point to your discussion?

No ones further off a flag than US, it amazes me that people can't deal with that.

Where did I say we were close to a flag? I said Carlton were further than us. I didn't say we were close. There is a difference.

That’s not because of tanking, they made the finals a few times before the last season, judd is such a great player that he carried the side, but in the last two seasons he is not the player he use to be, if you look at all of the premierships since 2007 to last year all of those teams hard power tall forwards, Geelong had Mooney, pods, Hawkins, in there premiership seasons, the hawks have buddy, roughhead, Collingwood had dawies cloke, the only team that did not is Sydney,

But meth coast and Sydney did in 05 and 06. They are in huge trouble Carlton, they are downhill skiers of the highest order and don't have anyone who stands up when needed, or even a "group mentality" of pack tackling or hunting in numbers. They were solid against hawthorn, but hawthorn were also a bit off that night. Judd has carried them I agree, I hope his legacy isn't tarnished from his brain fade suspensions or Carlton not taking the next step, as he has been a true great.

For mine, Carlton are further off a premiership than us with our current lists. That said, if they chased a Sam Reid, a robbie tarrant or a state league podsiadly, it could improve them, but they are soft and don't attack contested footy anywhere near hard enough to be a premiership contender at present.

This is exactly the thinking we had with Neeld last year and I like it. It just didn't work because there wasn't a whole lot on offer and we weren't an attractive prospect at all. I hope we are more enticing this time, and the Byrnes' and Rodan's are upgraded to the likes of Stokes and Cross.

On a side note, anyone know what the go is with Shane Tuck at the moment?

Broken shoulder blade django! Probably still a month away. Prior to that, seemed they wanted to groom vlaustin, grigg, Ellis in the midfield instead of tuck. I wonder if he will retire at seasons end.

Mathew Stokes unrestricted free agent, having a great year playing midfield. We could offer him 3 years and Davey 's salary.

Daniel Cross - out of favour at the Dogs because they have many of his type, he should be available at a reasonable trade price eg 4th round pick 60.

Then we can use our early picks on u18 mids who'll have some protection while they develop.

I'd love stokes, but I think after the drug saga he went through and geelong showing faith in him that he would stay very loyal to Geelong. Have to ask the question though, don't we!

It hasn't stopped Collingwood or Hawthorn, both are clubs that put the cue in the rack to get PP's.

A lot of Carlton's problems relate back to things other than tanking. Internal conflict at the club, having to pay big money to buy in a captain who gave great on field leadership but not next to nothing off field. Losing draft picks left a big hole in their list as it has in ours.

Which exactly confirms the point I made earlier to you in this thread.

it is total rubbish that tanking is why the blues are not winning, it did not affect their ability to win three season ago when they were one win outside the top four, I think it has more to do with their lack of tall forwards, I don’t know why they did not go hard after dawies, which is good for us, one of the reasons they have a lack of depth, is they have paid too much for too few, Judd, murphy, Gibbs are on big coin.

You think that clubs that tank have mental toughness when things aren't going there way? You think a player with a 15-45 win loss record has the guys to dig that bit deeper when things are against him? Look at Carlton and name one player who goes hard week in week out and has done his whole career.

I'll tell you, the answer is no one. Why? Because players get "used" to losing, honourable losses, and being close. Judd aside, they don't fight.

And the season Carlton finished 5th the leading goal scorers were betts, garlett and walker. Sorry which of them missed last night??

No it's not, I appreciate that Sydney and Geelong have done a great job with their lists but they have both taken advantage of AFL assistance through cash or rules at the time. The extra cap has helped Sydney and there is no way known they would have picked up Tippett for example and it allowed them to get Mumford in the past.

Geelong had the good luck to get father son picks cheaply under the previous rule, Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins have helped. As posted above they also get a huge leg up with Cardinia Park.

Of course Collingwood and Hawthorn have taken advantage of PP's and there was a little manipulation (not tanking of course) to get them.

I don't get what your argument is? I said Sydney Geelong hawthorn and collingwood have the "brand wide" structures in place to enable the club to be strong. From the CEO, president and coach, development and recruitment departments as well as footy department structuring,, to the players knowing what was expected of them from November when they walk in to the club in their first year, til they are 30 odd and retire. If you use the Shane Mumford trade as an example of their salary cap concession, then I suggest you look again. That season they offloaded Darren jolly to collingwood and Amon Buchanan to Brisbane.

Now, before comparing Brisbane (and ultimately Melbourne 2012) trading in established players, opposed to Sydney trading in established players, and the personalities of players traded, do you not think that a club with leadership at board level and everyone on an understanding of what is needed to succeed is more important? Yes Geelong had some luck with father sons, but with the Geelong brand and all those in charge looking to improve and grow the club, do you not think that added to the reasoning behind bartel, Kelly, Johnson and chapman becoming genuine A-graders as opposed to average footballers? What about when Mitch Duncan, Christensen or motlop step out as new players?

You can change bartel, etc to Heath shaw, swan, beams or Mitchell, birchal, Lewis, Sewell.

The clubs you have referenced have all had a leg up with draft picks or salary cap advantages. Carlton are still suffering from the draft penalties they received a while back, they can put a good team on the ground now but it won't get the ultimate success. Rebuild next year.

That's pretty inaccurate. Yes Sydney have extra space in their cap, but what do you think the difference is their? Okeefe, shaw, Bolton, mumford, Reid, goodes, jetta.... They all take pay cuts to keep the group together. They are in an environment where everyone at the club tries to get the best out of the players and take an interest in them. Same at Geelong, their CEO and board oversaw the ground redevelopment, all the training facilities improve, structures to support their young players and ease them into senior football.

hard to be happy when its Collingwood thats beating them

so true, actually hoped for a draw myself! How can collingwood, Carlton, Richmond and essendon all miss finals from here???

Lesson 1

Beware the messiah coach on $1.2m

Lesson 2

Carlton have something like 6 top 3 draft picks and are still hopeless

Just shows- draft picks are useless and you need your whole club on the same page to have sustained success. By that, I mean you can't have tanking (melb, wce, carlton), you can't have supplements or injection program's (that will not last) and you can't have a team built on trades or top ups (st kilda, bulldogs) it just doesn't work. You need a club on the same page, from CEO, to marketing, development and recruitment built on trust, hard work, confidence and patience. Hawthorn Geelong, Sydney and collingwood. It's not the game plan that's necessary to follow, it's the "brand" wide development and protocol.

No way, we should learn from our mistakes, his best days are well gone

I'm not condoning picking him up, but he is 26! Same age as Brett deledio, franklin, roughead and.... ME!!!!!

Still a lot left in a 26 year old!

Yeah you're probably right, no similarity at all and anyway, Cale wasn't tearing it up as a junior like Josh is, was he.

Anyway Cale is now a hulking 192 cms and 88 kgs.

Morton cut dangerfield a new a-hole in one game which put dangerfield down the list and Morton up. There is nothing about josh Kelly that in any way is similar to cale Morton, unless its endurance or beep test stats. 2 entirely different bodies and shapes.

Having looked at both side in Carlton and Collingwood I find it hard to see the Pies winning tonight.

The pies have been hit big time with injuries.

I feel a very small pang for them.

Blues tonight for me.

Sad to say it Redleg but they are eight bound.

Pies to miss.

I always think that about collingwood old dee! Just when you think they are stuffed, Dwyer or Elliot or josh Thomas play out of their skin, and Dane Swan has 67 disposals and Heath shaw blocks everything! Hate them but geez they run deep! Hopefully it's a draw and 85,000 go home frustrated!

Without wanting to brag this basically confirms what I was told and reported to a few people a month or two ago. Neeld came in and went so hard he made several players cry. Players had trouble working out what he wanted and several players were headed for the door.

Moloney got the arse because he didn't buy into Neeld not defensive efforts.

Neeld told Rawlings off for trying to give coaching advice and the players all confided in and found support from Craig.

nice to know it was all accurate.

Without disagreeing with anything you say, can we all just drop it? In actual fact, could the mods ban the name "mark neeld"?

It's been done to death, we all know it was a horrible 18 months, we went backwards and lost all but 5 games. I would really prefer we focused on the future and the opportunity that brings.

Freeman is the love child of Knightmare on BigFooty. In his phantom draft he believes he will become the best midfielder in this draft..

Pick 9 Nathan Freeman (VIC – Mid)Height: 181cm, Weight: 85kg, DOB: 16/06/1995

Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons

Style: Patrick Dangerfield

Player comparison:

Range: 5-25

Profile: Absolute dynamite midfielder and in my view outside of Jack Martin I strongly believe Freeman will become the best midfielder in this draft class. Other than Patrick Dangerfield and Chris Judd no player even compares with what Freeman does in the contest from an explosive standpoint. Freeman as Dangerfield does wins all the contested ball and is an absolute clearance machine but he’s a guy who has that rare combination of inside game and extreme explosiveness with his pace, agility and sidestep all as good as you’ll see. In addition to that explosiveness Freeman has a real hardness to him with the way he attacks the footy and contest. Also features of Freeman’s game is his ability to take grabs overhead and his 1v1 ability. He can push forward and hit the scoreboard in a big way particularly enjoying those finishes on the run streaming into goal or running to the 50 and going long for the goal. In short this guy has all the tricks and other than Jack Martin is that only other midfielder I see as a genuine game changer.

The thing about freeman that excites me is he could end up dangerfield/judd/voss-like. The thing that worries me is he could end up tapscott/Paul haselby/des headland. But he looks a real impressive player with just a enough tricks to excite!

Thats a fair call mate, my main concern is he will be running around like Barry at Casey all next season because of his size, it's a big risk, Morton, Cook , Gysberts, Blease and Strauss were all stick ants , we've been down this path and last time we recruited this way we weren't on AFL life support, surely there's a top midfielder in the First 5 picks that weighs 80 kg , time is not on our side, Billings looks just as good as Aish and he has a body ready to go.

Look, I don't think aish will be that far off. He reminds me a bit of James Kelly at the cats, but with better skills. I think he is a guy who will improve very quickly. Billings I can see a bit of chad wingard in, he will start slowly and look a bit lost, but after a year and another preseason he will become a very classy player.

Jockeys weigh 70 kgs , it would take 4 preseasons to get him ready, FFS Melbourne pick a kid with a frame.

Without wanting to derail a thread on a promising youngster, I want to make a point about weight/size.

At 17 I was 184cm and 70kgs wringing wet. By the time I turned 19 I was 188cm and 87kgs. I can safely say it wasn't fat, and I was still able to run and jump the same amount as I could at 17. A year later, I was 191cm and 91kgs. In a touch under 3 years I grew 7cm and 21kgs, all of which was pretty much muscle and bulk.

My point is, everybody develops at different rates. You can look at Aish, Kelly and billings and see that all 3 of them have muscle definition and a frame. Billings will turn out a bit bigger as he has shoulders already, like judd when he was young. Dangerfield always looked like becoming the horse he is nowadays even when he was 17. You don't need to be built like darling or ollie wines, or tapscott at 17 to become a great player, but you can tell the shape of gysberts and Morton were different very early on as opposed to masten or ziebell. Same applies to watts and Hurley. Ones mature at 19, the other is developing. Everyone was big on Hurley past year or 2 as he was ready to play, but watts scope for development is a lot higher than Hurley in my opinion.

In other words in Grimes, out Blease. With that bench, I can't see any permutations that strengthen the side that include Strauss, Sellar or Pedersen.

I'd imagine sellar/pederson are only named as backup if Sydney play all of pyke, mumford, Tippett and Reid. Just to give fitzy/gawn a chop out in the ruck.

If you could give them Boyd they might have to consider but even then very unlikely. Sloane??? Their need for a key forward is not as big as Carlton's, they do have Tex on the way back. Carlton has Waite on the way out.

More tongue in cheek rjay, but If we are to get someone worthwhile in, it will cost us. Dangerfield is probably worth 2 and another first rounder. If Neil Craig gets the gig, and we do get a priority pick, then why wouldn't you ask the question?