Generation dee

Pedersen stuffed up a couple but he has been alright. Kent has just that nice bit of Kent in him doesn't he!! He will be a player. Strauss has had some good moments. I think next year we will thank neeld for jones terlich etc when we are a more competitive. There are enough signs there. One thing noticed more today, a lot more passion when a bloke kicks a goal too.

If you reckon Dawes isn't worth it, just watch his last few minutes. Absolute hard worker of the highest order. Sure he has missed a few today, but he has set up so much and provided such a great target. The new coach can rest assured knowing Clark and Dawes will work bloody well together.

Anyone got anything to say bout watts coming on like he had measles and avoiding his teammates?

If Paul Roos or Bomber Thompson were coaching us today it wouldn't be any different!

The most basic stupid mistakes made by Bail,Jordie,RODAN,Joel Mac,Fitzy are because they are NOT AFL standard.Not coach related just dumb decision makers executed with sub standard SKILL.Those 5 should not be playing AFL football.

SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's exactly right. There is no quick fix. Even culling bail, rodan, Mckenzie etc still doesn't guarantee immediate improvement. Unless we replace them with pendlebury, Thomas and fyfe. If everyone could grasp that, we could all wallow in despair together.

And what the hell is watts doing?????

Might be clutching at straws, but the intent is a lot bloody higher than we've seen all year. But Dawes misses that, then a bail miskick, they just break spirit.

He sure is. Which means Kent gets a chance to get some early footy with the sting still in the game. Anyone at the game today?

No one can categorically say he can't coach, or he is incompetent. We very easily forget some match day moves he has made that were inspired at the time (watts back last year, garland forward, Dunn defensive) but ill agree with his man management blowing up in his face. As I said in my last post, no one can confirm or deny If cam schwab or others came to neeld and said we need to cut Moloney and rivers, and be harder on players.

Despite my strong opinion that Neeld must be sacked ASAP, I do feel sorry for him. He did not start the rot. He has given his all, and the decisions he has made have been what he thinks is best for the club. He will be bitterly disappointed. However, he simply was the wrong man for the job, he was a poor choice. He does not have the personal management or motivational skills required

I am disappointed that this story appears to have leaked. This is unprofessional. How the board managers this will be a big test for them. It is important that his dismissal is done with the highest level of compassion and professionalism. They appear to be off to a bad start.

For all my efforts at shooting you down, it's only been due to no respect being shown for neeld and his efforts at implementing that cultural change that the board asked him to. Now, this club has effectively black marked another coach (along with bailey) incompetent. Which is frustrating as neeld has shown at collingwood and previous, that he is a very competent coach. Perhaps he was too heavy handed, perhaps the board told him to cut Moloney etc. we won't know that. But I think it's safe to say that whoever has leaked this information must be held accountable, that this playing group still needs to work harder, or individually they will go down as unfulfilled and mediocre. If this is accurate, best of luck neeldy.

Just shows why junior deserved 1 more year. Also shows why the jacks were appointed, there was such a gulf in leadership, we didn't even have that "stop gap" option. Not one with the same credentials as vandenberg, or even Kane Johnson/Chris Newman.

That reason, that's why I'm comfortable about the long term position on field. We've finally got structures to deal with development and leadership, guys who will build to that expectation of how "elite" teams train and play. Jeez it's frustrating watching now though!

I agree that it's going to take time to become a really quality unit whichever way we go...but the question is, how long is it going to take to produce competitive, desperate efforts for the club and the supporters. Right now our club is being dragged through the mud because of what is being produced on the field.

I am not anti Neeld, but I am with 'Return to Glory' in that I am anti what is being produced on the field at the moment. I can accept that if we are trying to teach our players zones and all these new age things that it might take time (as it did for Clarkson when he began and Worsfold when he made major changes). Our players are producing football that is nowhere near the quality that those clubs were producing even when they were going through their changes.

It really boils down to the effort we see from the players at the moment. And if there is a belief that the players are giving 100% intensity every game and have bought in to the program then surely that would suggest that the program, from a gameplan perspective, is somewhat flawed.

I've waited for someone to mention our form in comparison to hawthorn/WCE/collingwood

In each of these teams case, there was an abundance of experienced players with 120-160 games under their belt. Players who weren't necessarily stars or match winners, but players who you could guarantee 100% effort, leadership and commitment. When Richie vandenberg was appointed hawks captain epitomises that. The media called it strange, yet he was exactly what Sam Mitchell, Luke hodge, brad Sewell and Jordan Lewis still showcase to this day- tough, accountable football. West coast in the early 2000's had similar. Ben cousins, for all his flaws, was a terrific mentor and an astute trainer.

Put simply, Melbourne just haven't had that leadership. In no way do I mean any disrespect to yze, Robertson, white or any of those players, we haven't had a expectation of tough, uncompromising leaders to learn off or set the standard for the next generation coming through. I still remember an article on travis Johnstone, when he lived with Paul hopgood, and hopgood would get up Sunday and go for a run, but Johnstone would sit on the couch playing play station and eating cc's (his own words). I just thought that highlighted why we were inconsistent from probably 2000 onwards. It's been until now where we have become aware of our "leaders" not being capable of applying that standard.

You keep saying it, but have nothing whatsoever to back it up. On the other hand, all reports on here from those who've had direct contact with the players contradict what you're saying.

Perhaps go and read the thread re the other night's meeting between Neeld, Craig, Jones and supporters.

Bingo!

WYL there Is no time like the present.

not many coaches are prepared to risk their potential careers, on a culture rebuild... its hard & dirty work, but its the Only Way to sort out the decades of 3rd gear efforts & lack of Professionalism.

I put it to you that if the club gives up on this hard Route, we will lose Misson & Craig, amongst others, who will leave to go to a Pro-gressive Club.

.

I suggest you get your Dad down to the Transport at Fed Sq before the game on Sunday, here you will find supporters with all sorts of differing views of what is wrong/what went wrong/how to fix it........but they are standing behind the team right at this moment coz that is what is needed.........that is the disappointment I feel when posting on this board.........supporters who say they love the team and do nothing but pick holes in it from the Chairman down..........hindsight is a wonderful thing........but we have AGM annually, I have been to the last six or seven and the silence has been deafening

WYL there Is no time like the present.

not many coaches are prepared to risk their potential careers, on a culture rebuild... its hard & dirty work, but its the Only Way to sort out the decades of 3rd gear efforts & lack of Professionalism.

I put it to you that if the club gives up on this hard Route, we will lose Misson & Craig, amongst others, who will leave to go to a Pro-gressive Club.

.

I suggest you get your Dad down to the Transport at Fed Sq before the game on Sunday, here you will find supporters with all sorts of differing views of what is wrong/what went wrong/how to fix it........but they are standing behind the team right at this moment coz that is what is needed.........that is the disappointment I feel when posting on this board.........supporters who say they love the team and do nothing but pick holes in it from the Chairman down..........hindsight is a wonderful thing........but we have AGM annually, I have been to the last six or seven and the silence has been deafening

Couldn't find 2 better posts highlighting the fact we need to stick together.

After speaking to Neeld and Craig last night, this was disappointing to them as well, the communciations failure between box and ground level didn't help either, but both don't want to play so many behind the ball, and why he was unhappy with a couple of 'senior' players for not dragging the structures back into place.

They used half time to 'convince' the players to go back to the agreed structures, hence the 3rd qtr is something to show them that it works, it is not that the players don't support or have faith in Neeld, but the inexperience kicks in and players go into their shell.......both Neeld and Craig, and we discussed this, want the players to back themselves.......problem is we only have 3 or 4 and I won't name, but Neeld and Craig agreed who, if they make a mistake...go stuff it and get straight at the next contest.......they need all 22 doing it, they see little signs that the rest are catching up.....but as Neeld says with the inexperience it only takes a couple of mistakes on the trot and the player goes immediately into the shell.......which throws the rest of the team out

Totally agree. While its easy for us as supporters, or coaches for that matter, to imply players to take the game on, run and harass, I guess the mindset of a player aged 19-25, like most of our list, will often change due to nerves, fear and intimidation based on the scoreboard, media and how we have gone for the past few years. Nicholson is a good example of that. You can't doubt his fitness nor his application, and jeez do I get frustrated with him, but the guy makes quite a few errors by foot- it would have to play on your mind and affect your confidence. I know myself, I'm struggling marking overhead at the moment, and all of a sudden you become a bit more reactive, you start thinking about marking on your chest, or where your opponent is. Clearly, some of our players are feeling that too! Can you give an insight into how. Neeld talks when he isn't in front of a camera? Is he as assertive, or is he gradually "softening" in his demeanour?

Thanks for the info 'Sat' it is appreciated but my follow up question on this would be why did he go away from the structures and put so many players behind the ball, the players surely didn't do this themselves. I would think he needs to stick fast with the structures too, this is one of the things that really frustrated me with the game last Sunday.

Agree completely. At least give us the chance to put some scoreboard pressure on. It's so frustrating when we have a good 4-6 minutes of play, yet only jag 1 goal, or keep breaking down in the forward third due to no options.

It's true. When you look at the KPI's before MN and now during MN we have gone backwards. But you have failed to consider the changes in the list and the improvements MN has made.

It's not blind faith. We see the bigger picture unlike you who is being bias.

We see that MN:

• Has fixed our FF issue by recruiting Clark and Dawes
• Got rid of the dead weight on our list
• Recruited premership players from other clubs to offer leadership and direction (something not done by Bailey might I add)
• Invested in new future players (Hogan, Barry, Toumpas [development player])
• Highlighted fitness as a key and fundamental issue and has Misson (very well regarded) who has implimented a 3 year plan to get us to AFL fitness

Stop being immature and solely looking at KPI's and then critise us for blind faith when you're not willing to look at the big picture.

I'm not saying you have to agree with what you see, but at least most people on DL have the decency to judge MN fairly and say that the club needs to focus on short-term wins because of membership numbers, attendance and moral ect.

Unlike you has chosen to adopt a "Mark Neeld has nothing nothing to improve the club - look as the KPI's" which are a bais statistic, and narrow minded perspective, which fails to take into consideration the bigger picture.

MN has done more than just KPI's. As you said "this is reality. Wake up!"

It's a credit to you that you haven't fallen for GNF's vomit. The more people who realise there is a long term plan in place, and a whole club overhaul. The more we dig deep now and stay strong, the more rewarding it will be when we push back up the ladder.

Without using Damien Barrett or Caroline Wilson, or any of the media backwash we hear, to back your claims, can you prove our "toxic culture" as you have alluded to?

Proof. Your incessant rants deserve at least an explanation.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33930-collingwood-chasing-sylvia/page-5

You used Moloney, rivers and Martin all leaving as a direct result of the coach. No if's, but's or maybe's.

In my eyes, you are no better than the flesh-eating journalists looking for a easy target to feast on. That you are upset mark neeld is pushing culture change, and forcing the weeds out (Moloney etc) so that the roses (jones, Howe, garland, viney, hogan etc) can bloom, shows a distinct ignorance to where the on field problems previously bred. The ceiling for growth was so minor pre neeld, in comparison to now. There is a genuine unity in the playing group, there are no rats who want to undermine senior officials and a categorical "one in all in" mindset.

The past is done, we've covered that numerous times. That you can't see similarities between how Al Clarkson and Mark Thompson cleared out players who were detrimental to unity and team growth, is disappointing. The outsiders who feel that the club is worse off without gysberts, Moloney, petterd etc, may well be right in the short term. However, later this year, we will all see the growth and development that we are craving (and have been for 7 years). This was a proper "ground up rebuild". When Peter Jackson comes out and endorses mark neeld, but fine tunes the lines of communication and isolates the uncertainty, watch how this club turns around on and off field. Watch How we stay in games longer and put more pressure on opposition teams. Watch how our players link up better and control the footy more consistently. We are a lot closer than anyone can see, unfortunately the same shallow minded journalists who today pot the club, will be the same ones who heap praise on Craig, or Lyon, or Mission.

Say what you want about mark neeld GNF, he put his own reputation on the line a early on, and since then he has dealt with media, ex- players who were the root of the problems, and supporters like yourself, who have all tried to undermine him. It's a matter of when, not if, we start producing results on field. If you are that despondent with how our senior team is playing, head down to casey and see some of the future players coming through, and the game plan they are implementing.

Guys, we do not have 5 years to become competitive. We will be the Hobart Devils in time for the next broadcasting contract. We have 2 years max to become competitive and remain solvent.

I dispute that the rebuild started last October............ that is straight out BS, I dispute that Bailey was just a continuation of Danihar but I accept we needed a new coach with which could install a more accountable game plan. The problem is we chose the wrong coach. We got our choice very, very wrong. As a result we must reconsider where we are at. A good coach can change the culture and develop a new more accountable game plan (which has been an out and out failure) while maintaining confidence, self belief, without have mass discontent from players, without having player walkouts. I will add I have never seen a more unaccountable game plan or worse culture than currently resides under Neeld.

We are not a club that has the luxury of being able to simply start again. We are on the ropes. If we could go back to 9 wins we could be saved, we cannot be saved when we have an average losing margin of 75 points and half the team want out. We must abandon the pursuit of a Premiership for the time being and put all effort into our survival.

I think few here realise the dire position we are in.

You've called bs at me a few times now champ. Have a little balance to your views.

You've used Stef Martin walking out and the "pending" walk out of several other players. Only col Sylvia can walk out as a free agent, and if watts doesn't re-sign, good riddance as he hasn't proven himself as yet. Your one eyed anti neeld propaganda is slanderous, repetitive and put simply, you are a muppet. Put some credence to what you are saying, as currently you base it on 1 "player manager who you are BFFs with". Are you even a member? Or you are one of those who thinks you help the club by not paying up, and instead spin vitriol to whoever is willing to listen to you vile?

Most people who support Neeld on DL, like myself, believe that this was always going to happen GNF.

Neeld is doing what has to be done.

Whatever coach we chose, they would also have had to do the same.

Ie, cull the list of our failed picks (Morton, Martin ect), draft in experienced players to offer leadership (Byrnes, Rodan), secure good future drafts (Hogan, Barry, and Toumpas [development player]), focus on bringing up fitness to AFL standard (bringing in Misson ect.)

A bit of short-term pain for long-term gain.

Again, it doesn't matter which coach was chosen, Roos, Clark, Lyon, Williams ect. They would all have had to have made the same decisions.

As for Neeld's game plan you can see its shaped around the fact that our players aren't up to AFL fitness (zoning) and the execution of this again is a reflection of the list's fitness and skills.

Let me ask you this. Whats more important: short-term success or long-term success?

I dont know about you but wining 8 games a year wasn't really cutting it for me and not sustainable for long-term success.

But we won 8.5 games that year and almost played finals!!! And some weeks we looked good!

In all seriousness, dean bailey was just a continuation of neale daniher's "unaccountable" last 2 years of reign. Effectively the rebuild started in October last year. Gnf can rant all he likes about neeld, we were 5 years stagnated before neeld come on board. At least we have guidelines and plans now. Longer term we are in better shape on field.

Robinson would really know about dropping his head, a cheap shot at a B&F winner, if this is his new role at the MFC he should go back to singing for his supper.

Cheap shot? That's a little hypocritical. Where were you when Moloney was on afl360? Nowhere to be seen...

That you think Brent Moloney deserves any form of defence or protection is exactly what's wrong with Melbourne supporters culture right now. He left, he didn't want to play for the club. He wanted to play for Brent Moloney. Good riddance to him and if you wish to keep sulking about the past, good riddance to you also, sir.

I'm intrigued by Burns. I want an experienced coach, but his name tends to crop up a bit. Can anyone from Perth offer a little insight on him? If he's got the runs on the board under Worsfold, why have clubs consistently overlooked him? What's the word in WA? I noted I think PSD mention that Sumich stayed at WC for such a period, because he was no threat to Worsfold. Can the same be said of Burns, who's been at the club since 2009?

Mark neeld had all the runs on the board before he was appointed.

They are both extremely experienced. Both were great players. I mentioned this in another thread. How many coaches have coached premierships at 2 different clubs in the modern era? I could only think of Malthouse and Matthews. The rest have been first time coaches. Just because we have failed at choosing a good coach the last 2 times, doesn't mean we have to get an over the hilll experienced coach just for the sake of it.

Are people actually Being serious when bringing up Northeys name? I can't tell if people are joking or not.

I don't think we have "failed to choose a good coach" fitter, that neeld has a terrific history at ocean grove and collingwood shows the opposite. Dean bailey is an interesting one, maybe he was 5 years early with his method. I think it's more that we have chosen a coach who didn't fit the players we had on the list. Bailey tried to mould players with attacking flair who were on average taller and good on the spread, but at the expense of hard working defence and without the body density to be stron over the ball.

Unfortunately when neeld has come on board, he has tried to swing too far towards the "100% effort" type player who competes hard, but unfortunately at the expense of the attacking playmaking style. It's all about balance, unfortunately we have swung too far in either direction. I genuinely believe mark neeld is a good coach, but with where we find ourselves now, I don't think he is the right fit for us. That said, I still think he has changes from the ultra authoritarian style he was, and now I feel he is a lot more of the trusting, protective style of coach.

I'm lucky that through school, I'm friends with several players who are at different clubs around the country. The reason Sydney and Paul roos were such a great fit is because Paul protected his players, whether that was onfield or whether it was just his demeanour of dealing with players who may have been homesick, struggling with off field issues or whatever. Examples of that are something like having a player and family around for a BBQ, frequent calls or texts just saying g'day or offering encouragement or advice on issues from living away from home, lifestyle or development. For the same reason as that, I can guarantee you that collingwood is the exact opposite of that, with a lot less welfare or support and as such, why they are down a bit since Buckley took over.

I still hope that neeld can turn it around, for the reasons I have mentioned. That said, hawthorn and collingwood games will show everyone exactly how bad they want him to stay on, or not.

Now hang tight just a moment. Without pointing the finger at individual posters here who have changed their tone now, it's common knowledge we all felt a coach with a harder edge was necessary. Mark neeld came with not only glowing endorsement from mick malthouse and several senior collingwood players and staffers.

The board then put an invitation to Neil Craig to join under the role of general manager of sports performance.. Neil Craig had offers from Brisbane, collingwood and Richmond, yet picked the role with Melbourne as the most succinct, but also the greatest challenge. We then poached Dave mission as manager of elite performance. Add to that the array of experience assistant coaches and line/development coaches, its disappointing to sit here and read quotes from posters that the board is responsible for the current uncompetitive situation which the club finds itself in.

There isn't a supporter who could currently say they are happy we are 1-8 with a average losing margin of 75 points and a grand total of 6 quarters won from 36. There isn't a supporter that would say they are happy with every article about the club containing words "pathetic, rabble and irrelevant". Don't sit here and think that players don't care, that coaches don't care, that anyone involved with the club on game day doesn't care that we are so uncompetitive at this point. Do many posters here understand the hours players put in just to make it on a list? It is a fallacy to think they would do that, just to get on a list and be content with 90 point thrashings. For all WYLs rantings its only because he is frustrated with where we are at, GNF for all his doomsday talk it is equally because he is frustrated with where we are at. Rhino, jaded, young dee, old dee; the list goes on. We are all frustrated that we aren't in the top 4, that we have been smashed on and off field this year, but we must hang in together. This club has had too many splintering factions over the past decades. We can't let

Supporters and members leave the club or not go go to games in protest.

I apologise for this post getting emotional, I'm as frustrated as the rest of you guys.

Although I liked the part where he said he was one of the better runners at our club, we got a good look at that here.

I liked that post, then unliked it, just so I could like it again!

Cale, we don't have a Darren glass... It was meant to be you. You were a young player drafted very early, you showed leadership as an underage player. You didn't apply yourself cale..

Try this on for size. Maybe it'll fit that imaginary scapegoat.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/lift-your-game-melbourne-mark-neeld-tells-jack-watts/story-e6frf9jf-1226193140413

Neeld at his best shooting off at the mouth to the press and adding more pressure on the kid. I don't disagree with much of what Neeld would like Jack to aspir to but what gives him the right to carry on like this in the press?

You just don't get it, do you?

What exactly, do you feel, is inaccurate of what mark neeld has said?