Dr John Dee

That's akin to heresy on this thread, dieter. There are some things up with which we will not put, as your hero Winston once said.

You've got too much time on your hands, daisy, but well picked up. Also seems they well and truly trump New Zealand (following the Croats in NZ link), being responsible for anyone who's anyone in that country as well, including several All Blacks. Most of those associations are at best nominal, or probably more accurately fanciful. Interesting what can be done with this sort of exercise.

I think maybe you should read dieter's post again.

I don't know whether the Croatians outdo the New Zealanders in laying claim to people and achievements from elsewhere but it probably says enough that they never seem to have noticed Steiner.

Not sure how many ways you think a hair can be split, daisy, but this isn't one of them. If you check, you'll find that Biffin claimed Steiner was Croatian. He wasn't, he was Austrian. He identified as Austrian. Steiner may have been born in Croatia but he spent not much more than a year there, if that. He might have been entitled to a Croatian passport since the kingdom was able to issue these but I suspect you'll have great difficulty in demonstrating that he ever had one. The only issue is (as it was before) that once again Biff's been having a lend of history.

Sorry dieter, no insult intended. I only meant that the empire (as empire) was pointless, being as it was a series of political settlements called an empire and serving only to prop up the Habsburgs for another 50 years or so. Its cultural contributions can't be denied although Mozart and Schubert might be stretching the point since they were born well before 1867. And never mind Mahler. Check out Alma Mahler's 'career' some time. She seems to have slept with most of Vienna. Happy for you to claim Kafka. I wouldn't trade him for a thousand Kiplings. And if you really want to boast you could add Robert Musil. Extraordinary writer.

I don't mean to be pedantic or anything, but Steiner was Austrian, a citizen of that other pointless empire, the Austro-Hungarian. Some people, including the bloke with the toothbrush moustache, didn't think that distinction meant much, though.

Very pleasing that you have arrived in Vietnam without harm, Biff. You don't mention, though, whether you caused any on the way. My sister was there a few years ago and loved it. She's always talking out of turn. I expect your bad French to continue. It's our historic duty to offend against the language, especially wherever we find the remnants of their failed colonial enterprises. I won't venture anywhere near the bad Dong puns. I presume you'll return with at least six months' supply of these. If not, you could bring back a stick-on Uncle Ho beard for BBO to wear to the first game of the season.

Looks like they do things a little differently in England: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/11/manchester-city-charged-anti-doping

Hmm, this looks suspiciously like posting by proxy, another clever effort by BBO to slip past any scrupulous mods who might visit here. That's highly unlikely I suppose. More alarming is the information that he's been allowed to teach anyone anything. I though proponents of Dickensian education techniques had been shuffled off into administrative jobs long ago. Anyway, didn't you say in another thread that you were off for a souvlaki at lunchtime yesterday?

When you can come up with some evidence for you claim that I called you a racist feel free to get back to me. As for the rest of this tripe it only confirms that you react to posts without bothering to read them.

I don't disagree ... except for the proposition about tu quoque argument. Biff's assertions wander backwards and forwards over all sorts of justifications for/glossing over/ whitewashing of western barbarism. He's relied all along on reading Islam through a comparative moral lens and in those circumstances it's entirely appropriate to raise barbarities of other sorts. Nor do I think that there's anything like a 'pizzing competition' to it. That's why I said barbarism is barbarism. Giordano Bruno's death would still be an act of barbarity with or without the Inquisition's subsequent expansion in Spain and beyond. It's the extremism of Biff's language that worries me.

I haven't concerned myself with race at all, veiled or even hidden and if all you've got is accusations framed at that level you demean yourself even more than you have already. But pat yourself on the back as much as you like about whatever victory you think you've achieved. I wasn't aware that there was any competition going on but there you go. When I want a history of the Levant i'll ask the historians.

I thought it was as well but Jack obviously left it with a request to leave James Hird alone for the time being. I guess Alan Hird's stirring things up is a separate enough issue and should be able to be discussed that way but if it turns back onto James and his problems it might need to be shut down.