Lucifers Hero

Crikey Wise. Read my comment in context - I didn't say it changed anything. I only that it prompted me to post on this thread again. Anyway Jack's father's comments are new information so it is not unreasonable to bring them to this thread for discussion. You may not like it but sobeit.

With respect UH there may be a bit of 'hair splitting' in the bits i've higlighted. Goodwin talks about 9 years of being in rut. Jones talks about his activities away from the club. etc etc. I haven't posted on this thread for a while as it was going round in circles but I feel hearing from Jack's father and by implication his mother, has changed things a bit. The Stringer situation looks worse because of the girlfriend's interview and WB botched the trade and didn't take pick 11. But they had one shot (Beveridge's interview) and made a clean cut of Stringer. For Jack its been like the 'death of a thousand cuts' from the various commentary since our last game. So while the Stringer situation looks worse and it could be rated 9 out of 10 bad then mfc with Jack is about 7.5 out of 10 bad. Still very bad in my book. Just for comparison. It is very well known that Kent is being heavily shopped around. But the club has been very respectful to him and handled it quietly. A far cry from what we are seeing with Jack. I fear this will not end well for anyone. I have no idea why the club chose its path. But for mine it was not a good choice.

Extract from Trade Radio: Andrew Watts is Jack's father. Expanding on 'reprobate' he says: Clearly his father is taking issue with the derogatory rumours spread about his son, largely based on comments from Goodwin, Jones, Mahoney. We may not like his father's commentary but no one is publicly standing up for Jack. Even his kind hearted video to a fan was presented as having a cheap shot at mfc and nothing was further from the truth. I really admire a father standing up for his much maligned son. It isn't good for MFC when a father needs to do that. It is exceptionally rare for a player's father to come out and defend them. I would think for Jack's family to do that involves very unusual circumstances. I do not know who or what to believe anymore. As each day passes more and more people are coming out and casting doubts on MFC's narrative on Jack's season. Posters may want to blindly tow the company line but I fear there will be some bad fallout from this. Not so much Jack leaving but moreso the way it has been handled. A very sad situation just became moreso.

I've noticed in some other threads there is discussion of # of list spots etc. This is latest List, Contract status and Trade Summary: This includes all the contract changes for our 2017 List, delistings and the arrival of Lever. We have 3 primary list spots. We now have no 'B' rookies. Its worth remembering that from next year Rookies can play senior games without waiting to be 'upgraded' for a LTI or similar. It is a change brought in with the new CBA. Edit: Image deleted

Its all over folks. No more angst and hand wringing required. Jack will farewell the team at the B&F. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-to-farewell-melbourne-as-clubs-line-up-to-acquire-the-former-no1-pick/news-story/57a7ef5a6c8ebaf9a5a023e377652ad1 Only one quote to take from the article: "Melbourne spearhead Jesse Hogan would prefer to keep Watts and is believed to have told his teammate as much when they spoke briefly last week". Teams in the running: Port, Geelong, Sydney and apparently StKilda have contacted him. Good Luck young man. Go and prove all the doubters wrong. I will cheer you (not your team) whatever colours you wear. Thanks for the memories, loyalty to my beloved Demons and sticking with us when we were a basket case. During that time you were a rare bright spark on rainy winter days at the G. So, so sad to see you go.

Gee, they take Gunston's award but let Danger keep the B&F Blight medal! Hypocrites!

The Crows claws are out. I think its one thing to play hared ball with the club but it is another thing to run this pejorative campaign against him. Pretty low really. He wasn't going so I guess Adelaide had to explain his absence somehow...best to withdraw the invitation, then. Will be interesting to see where he finishes in their B&F Demoted to 22nd perhaps...

I know they are next door neighbours. I ask again how would a Storm player know what is happening inside mfc? From an mfc coach, player, staff member (junior?/senior), another Storm player, coach who got it from someone inside the mfc? The Storm source is passing on hearsay, not fact. But if you want to believe it thats cool, I just hope other DL's are a bit more circumspect about 3rd or 4th hand hearsay. There are enough things to hang Jack on as it is.

I assume you are referring to AMTAW's post above? The source was a Melbourne Storm player. How would a Storm player know what was happening inside MFC? From a Melbourne player; a Melbourne coach? So it is at least 3rd or 4th hand. And, AMTAW did not say whether MFC approved it or not; he only said that MFC were not impressed with the request. I raise these points because otherwise in 3 pages it will become a 'truth' to be quoted over and over again.

10 + 27 = 2098 which is equivalent to pick 4 (2034 pts). But, 2098 is also equivalent to pick 16 plus pick 17 (2092 pts)! Richmond holds both. Would Richmond trade them tho? They could be persuaded if they want young Parick Naish as father/son and think he won't go top 10. That way they can use pick 10 on a top player and use lesser picks for Naish. I suspect we won't be the only club with a top 10 pick asking that question of Richmond.

That is what has happened. Maybe I didn't explain it very well. Hodge has come out of retirement and Hawks will do a nominal trade with Lions thereby avoiding Lions losing their (very high) AFL compo pick for Rockcliff. That is the 'Sting'/loophole Barrett refers to.

I take 'poor preparation' to mean that he doesn't train well/strongly or do all the post game recovery as well as he should eg ice baths, phsio, massage, meetings etc. And these set poor poor standards for our young players. Jones referred to 'poor behaviours when away from the club'. I assume he means diet, nutrition, social habits. Posters have talked about seeing Jack at clubs but no-one says if it is the night before training or before a game. It sounds like Jones expects players to be committed 24/7 to football like he is but few will be 24/7 footballers. I have mixed feelings on this. Would love all our players to be committed 24/7 like Jones and Viney but they are all entitled to have a social life. Nonetheless, I think they are legitimate comments by the club but can't help but think that Jack isn't the only one guilty of them. But, I don't assume the club means he has alcohol while on rehab or while in Byron or that those resulted in extra games missed due to injury, which was the crux of Ron B's post and sue's question. We can all go back and forth on this but interpretation of comments is related to our expectations of Jack. At the end of the day the one thing we can be sure of is there has been a breakdown in his relationship with the club and it seems irretrievable. When that happens in an organisation all sorts of things get focused on, some small, some big. We have no way of knowing which is which, nor should we know. Now 'It is what it is' and we move on.

Paul Connors on Trade Radio said this morning that Aiden Bonar was earmarked as an MFC Multicultural Academy player. He has come in from pick #100 to around pick #20 and 'mfc wouldn't be too happy about that'. The sooner they change the Multicultural Academy draft bidding system to be the same as F/S and the Northern Academies, ie being able to match bids, the better.

I think RonB is picking up on some strange extrapolation on DL: trip to Byron + (reported poor preparation = likes to go out) = extension of his rehab. Looks faulty logic to me. Firstly, the club would have agreed to the trip. And, there has been nothing posted that he has a drink while injured...pure speculation. Whats more, Misson always says 1 to 2 weeks and it nearly always turns into 4 to 6. That is a running joke on our Injury Threads. Even tho' he is gone and there have obviously been issues, I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt on stuff that is 'reported' on DL which has no outside reference.

Perhaps I looked at the wrong 'loophole. From Purple: "If Luke Hodge hadn't 'retired' ...then ... he'd be a free agent. Meaning the Lions wouldn't get lucrative compo for their exiting free agent Rockliff. Yet another loophole to be rorted in this highly questionable free agency compo system". Explains the late draft pick Hawks traded to Lions. So Lions get Hodge and pick 19 approx for Rockcliff. You can bet if we were the Lions in that deal, all hell would break loose and the AFL would canvas the other clubs and would somehow thwart it.

WOW! You slept thru the 2018 season and missed the Dees 13th Premiership?? Thanks ET...getting ahead of myself! The option to edit the title isn't available so need to wait till the mods can fix. Cheers

Small correction to the post CityDee. I take it you have been out of town for a few days...

Adelaide have themselves to blame. They let a kid, Jack Graham go thru to Richmond's pick 53 in last years draft. He captained the SA under 18' team last year and won the Larke Medal. Last Saturday, in the GF he kicked 3 goals against the Crows and took Sloane out of the game after Qtr time. They have received a lot of stick in SA about that oversight. So if they chose local talent they wouldn't have a 'go home' problem and the GF may have not been such a debacle for them. So Adelaide are smarting over the GF loss, the Jack Graham flak and are now all fire and brimstone towards Lever and Cameron for wanting to leave. I suspect the name Jack Graham will haunt them for a very long time and if they every want him to 'come home' they will pay big time. What goes round, comes round

I read somewhere that Ess may try and trade their pick 11 to GCS for their #19 and #22. Use one for Stringer another for Smith. GCS have: 2, 19, 22, 24, 34. On the AFL points system Ess would come out way in front on that deal equivalent to a late 2nd round pick. I doubt GCS would fall for it and they ask for something back should they want to do that deal. There's talk of Aaron Francis (pick 5/6) two years ago going back to SA so they would get a good pick back. So it sounds like he has a few things up his sleeve, which is no surprise... There are several clubs trying to shuffle picks to get trades done.

Surprise, Surprise - Luke Hodge is coming out of retirement https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/its-official-luke-hodge-is-coming-out-of-retirement-and-wants-to-play-for-the-brisbane-lions-in-2018/news-story/8fd413ce8af22b1a6843f64ed223790b Didn't the AFL ban this after a Brisbane player went to Ess and avoided being traded about 10 years ago? Brisbane missed out on a draft pick/player. I thought they made a rule that if you retire you have to stay out of the game for 3 years. Is the rule gone or conveniently forgotten? Edit: Hawthorn have since announced they will accept a late pick to enable Hodge to go to Lions. So rule of 3 years retired appears to still be in place.

I thought that WADA changed the rule after and because, of the Ess drug saga and their frustration at not being able to ban the perpetrators. Could be wrong tho.

The 2017 Keith "Bluey" Truscott Memorial Trophy is being held tonight at the Palladium Ballroom at Crown Casino. It will be streamed live on Monday night. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-05/best-and-fairest-live-stream In past years I keenly watch this thread for updates from people that are there or watch the club twitter feed. Will enjoy seeing it live. Great initiative by the club. Who do you think will take out the Bluey?

I've had enough of how this club has publicly put Jack down, all year. Warranted or not no player deserves to hear his captain and coach regularly chastise him in public. If Jack stays against Goodwin's wishes, I can only see the diatribe from him and Jones to continue. It may even intensify. Very difficult to perform in a toxic environment. So, I would like Jack to go. Hold your head high Jack for having survived a toxic club for most of the nine years. As a human being you deserve better than what mfc and its supporters can give you. Get out while you can Jack. Go where you will be appreciated and where you are supported and 'set up for success'.

His premierships were in his first 2 years at the crows and his captaincy started 10 years later. So it could not be said that he was a leader of a successful team. Also, many excellent and decorated players are appointed to leadership positions eg captains that aren't good leaders; look no further than our beloved Demons. Individual success + Captaincy do not = Good Leadership When given the opportunity to show leadership he didn't: 1. At the age of 30 and about to be appointed Captain at the Crows he was taken to task by the AFL for gambling on an AFL game. After being appointed captain he had treatment for a long standing gambling addiction. Set good standards - I think not! Did not show leadership, especially of a young team that looked up to him. 2. At the age of 32 he was Ass Coach of a club that implemented an unprecedented doping regime over an extended period of time. He was not cited, probably because WADA rules didn't extend to support staff. Set good standards - I think not! Did not show leadership, especially of a young team that looked up to him and relied on him amongst others to look after their well being. He was a very successful player, average as captain, failed as an asst coach, average as first year senior coach and I can find no evidence that he is a good leader of any sort let alone a natural leader or a successful leader. So hopefully people will stop talking about his leadership skills.

With Lever's manager joining Colllingwood they are not in the race for Lever. They are the only team reportedly prepared to offer 2 1st round picks. It was probably a rumour to make out there is a bidding war to force our hand. So there isn't much competition out there for the price Adelaide is asking. The ink isn't dry but Adel don't have much bargaining power. And the AFL will step in to make it happen if it has to.