Cranky Franky

This is just about all we are good for - showing old clips of old champion players because the season is going down the toilet.

Disappointed that they didn't give Keilty a run - he deserves it.  Tim Smith is a very average VFL player who plays a couple of very good VFL games a year.  His skills are barely up to VFL standard.  

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

Dunn suited our old game plan, and was a perfect fit for the filth.  Round the boundary here we come!  He was a liability at the end of his career with us, and couldn’t crack the firsts.  Good luck to him for prospering in a system that plays the way he knows.

Howe?  OK, seemed to want to get to the pies and we were just a stepping stone.  Now he is there, where will he lead them?  Is flying for everything a leadership trait?  Seems like it is more about him.  But honestly, good luck to them.  I suppose they are leaders compared to half the other muppets they have on their list.

Suggest we stick to our own knitting and win a flag before belittling the less fortunate.

Absolute crap.  Dunn wasn't perfect but a mile ahead of Frost or Oscar even now 3 years later. Absolutely stupid decision to let him go & probably the worst one Roos made (along with being talked out of recruiting Higgins who went to North instead).  

46 minutes ago, TGR said:

Dunn and Howe make Collingwood’s leadership 5.

We apparently lacked leadership and an AA and sought the superannuant.

Did we get rid of Dunn because of the torp kickin from full back?

 

I’m confused.

 

 

 

There are some things we never get the full story on - the Stan Alves dumping, Darren Jolly being overlooked for Jamar etc.

Dunn clearly fell out of favour with the coaching staff & they put a line through his name - he was not going to get picked again regardless.

Stupid move I reckon as he had a fair bit left to offer.    Howe got offered good $ by the Pies - maybe we didn't think he would be as good

and as consistent as he has been at Collingwood.

A very handy player - not quiet a gun.

I saw Bennet play - don't think he qualifies as a "champion" - never heard him referred to as Billy.  My mate used to call him NICE MAN because he never belted anyone.

Anyhow I reckon Tom has a long way to go to match Neitz as a classic marking &  kicking FF.

On 2/25/2019 at 12:15 PM, tiers said:

Jesse is instinctively a much better forward than TMac becaus of his footy smarts and versatility in all forward positions. Both can be goal kicking machines on their day.

TMac is our best classical leading and marking FF since Billy Bennett but is at his best from the goal square. The two of them together for a full season with Jesse at CHF and a roaming brief together with TMac at FF would have been a joy to see. Alas, never to be fulfilled.

Who on earth is or was Billy Bennett ??????

22 hours ago, hemingway said:

I would also add his brother Josh. 

Contrary to many on this site, I liked what I saw with Josh. Thought he showed promise but lost his way last season. 

A little rough around the edges but had a manic attack on the ball and opponent. 

Are you serious - JOSH WAGNER ??????  

From what i have seen a lack of attack on the ball and opponent is one of his main problems - lacks any physical edge to his game whatsoever.  Also needs to use the ball better & get more touches.

Even at Casey he was solid rather than great.

11 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Sorry, but I'm joining @wrecka45 on crashing the Weid love-in.  Weid has presented a credible target and for 4 or 5 games in a good side playing great footy at the perfect time in big games.  Jesse provided a good target and proven goal kicker over 4 seasons in a team which was absolute poo in his first season.

Not comparing apples with apples. 

Jessy is a positive outlier in terms of his early development, Weid has followed the more typical path of a key forward.  I'm not anwhere near as interested in their performance for the MFC to date as what I am in their performance going forward.  Go Demons and go the Weid, bring us a flag, that's all I really care about in this debate.

I'm with you.  Weid has potential but has been great in 1 game & solid in maybe 3 other games - still a long, long, long way to go.

Has the turning circle of the Titanic & is poor below the knees.  Have a look at his ruck work in his last few games - its worse than horrible.

We are all hopeful but the comments on here are silly - he is a work in progress and a million miles from being a reliable key forward.

18 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

In this photo, you can see his balance clearly, leveraging from one side of the body to the other due to leg power at release in his leap. This assists him to land laterally, one side or the other, in the tackle and to overcome his opponent's force direction and efforts.

Hence, Vanders gets very few '...in the back calls...' when in the process of tackling. A compensatory opponent pain dosage is often donated should the impact have the correct geometry to nail the bastard into contact with the ground and his body force over the top of it all.  From our perspective, not even Nureyev could choreograph a prettier or more elegant pas de deux. All is generally assisted by his bulk, his strength in the upper body as well, in his '...gonna getcha'...' attitude and in his role as a 'tough-nut' using unusual force attributes whether in contact with the ground or alternatively, having taken off (in flight) with a particular fall-point in mind.

As you can also see in this photo, Pendlebury was doing his best to overbalance down the midline in a forward direction, milking a free kick if he could. Friggin' ineffective, Pendles, bad luck but you are dealing with Vanders so get out of his way because it ain't gonna help your match stats.....

Its just footy mate not splitting the atom or planning the D day invasion.  Just an instinctive tackle & a player trying to throw his tackler.  Do it 3 times & you probably end up with 3 different results.

Just proves that VDB is one of the best tacklers in the team & is a strong boy.

5 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Yes your mum knows nothing about footy.

AVB was one of the few who stood up and handled the footy properly in the prelim.

Vanders' disposal in that final was poor & it is the weakest part of his game.  He more than makes up for it with his aggression & ability to find the footy.  It was no surprise to me that on a day when most of his teammates went missing Vanders was one of our best players.

On 1/6/2019 at 1:45 PM, daisycutter said:

my mistake franky. but he did finish 2nd in the 1966 vfa liston trophy aged 18, the year before he transferred to richmond

Sorry mate but either its an urban myth or you made it up.-

1966 was Alan Poore's (Waverley) second consecutive Liston Trophy, and he became the first player ever to win the award twice. Paul Ladds (Sandringham) was second with 27 votes, and Barry Ion (Yarraville) was third with 26 votes.

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

I just did.

He’s tougher, harder, more selfless, has more impact on contests, etc.

Of course this appraisal is all based on both of them at this precise point in time, irrespective of mid-term past performance. 

However Pedersen made a career out of getting cheap touches and goals, Smith has done the opposite.

Sorry I can't let the last comment go so I'm reneging on my "last ever post on the matter"

The fact is Smith has done a total of SFA while Pedersen built a career out of hard work & being a totally selfless team player, crashing packs & working his backside off as an undersize ruckman.  In 2018 he dominated at Casey & was probably our best player over the finals series.

By contrast Smith did practically nothing in 2018 & very little in 2017.  I watched him in the Casey finals where he was almost embarrassing, trying to take speccies, missing easy goals and being a wasted space in the ruck.

On 12/15/2018 at 3:18 PM, daisycutter said:

and sheedy was the complete opposite. recruited from prahran as a young liston trophy winning centreman, quickly reinvented as a backpocket 

Fact check - Sheedy did not win a Liston Trophy. Actually he was tied to Melbourne & trained with a the Club a few times.

My last ever post on this .......

If you reckon Smith is a better forward than Pedersen I'm pretty much speechless. I suppose if he improves on his 4 senior games & racks up 80 odd matches like Pedo did you will be proved right.

Anyhow at Casey in 2018 Smith played 15 games for 12 goals while Pedersen had 17 games for 32 goals. 

This will probably go down as one of the most meaningless debates in Demonland history.  And look I am not suggesting Pedersen  was any more than a journeyman battler who was approaching the end of the line.

Its just that by any objective measurement, statistics, form, influence of games, goals, ability to play different roles at Casey & at Melbourne  Pedo was about a 7 & Smith a 5.

I watched them both closely in the Casey finals & Pederson was solid while Smith was poor so I was stunned when he was kept on the list.

"Because I do" is pretty lame evidence.

At least I can point to the stats that show Pedo ran rings around Smith at Casey - maybe you should check them out.

On 12/29/2018 at 11:56 AM, Mach5 said:

It’s the right option if you value Tim Smith as a forward higher than Pedersen, and in my opinion we should, and do.

How on earth would you value Smith higher than Pedersen as a forward ??

Pedersen played lots of solid games at Melbourne as a forward while Smith did nothing in his couple of appearances.

And last season Pedersen was outstanding at Casey while Smith did very little and was poor in the finals.

I know this is a retro topic but I still haven't got over how they delisted Pedersen but kept Tim Smith on the list.  Pedo was a serial scapegoat & was the first dropped whenever the firsts had a bad game however in every Casey game that I saw Pedo outperformed Smith by a long, long way.

Pedo is also more versatile than Smith.    In the finals Smith looked like someone playing schoolyard footy as he kept trying to take hangers.  His kicking for goal was woeful & he is pretty hopeless in the ruck.

Anyhow its all over now but I reckon it was a shocking decision.

What is he 23 or 24 & now having his 3rd knee surgery.

Not looking good

Hemingway you really are pontificating about this without a shred of evidence for Jeff's particular circumstances.

Its like an inverse form of apartheid. Guess what - Indigenous people can be stupid, greedy, spit the dummy and and make poor decisions just like non Indigenous people can.

Lots of people come from difficult circumstances when they are growing up - Col Sylvia, David Schwarz & Col Garland for example.

You don't do anybody any favours by pulling out the racial excuse whenever an Indigenous player has a problem or a loss of form.

Its pretty obvious from what I saw - he got dropped, spat the dummy and stopped trying - EXACTLY LIKE HE DID AT CARLTON.

He's not the first & he won't be the last footballer to do it.

.

12 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I don't think it is an 'indigenous' issue. 

He never looked settled, comfortable or happy out there this year.  There was no spark, no joy in his football.  He's a very, very talented player and when someone who was in All Australian contention for much of 2017, can't even get a game in 2018, we look to injury or private life for a possible reason.  As he played out the year in the 2s, and there was no apparent injury issue, that leaves one logical conclusion to allude to.

IMHO he can get back into the team and have a huge impact on the side.  When he's 'on', he is a fast, agile, creative, one-touch player who can turn a match.  There's room in any side for a player of that quality.  However, we didn't see that player out there this year... 

Its all between the ears for Jeff. People need to remember he did exactly the same thing at Carlton.  When he gets the chitz he does so in a big way.  He had the luxury this year of being contracted on good $$ for next year.

When a player of his calibre is getting 5 or 6 touches at Casey he is clearly not trying and good on the coaches for sticking to their guns..

Don't think you can qualify as a steal until you have played at least 100 games so the jury is still out on ANB, VDB and Hunt.

Darren Jolly & Stef Martin were very low picks unfortunately we were not smart enough to realise their potential ditto Nathan Basset.

Jeremy Howe another one.

,

Nice touch but I take issue with your comment that "that the club was regularly accused of tanking its matches"  that's just not right.

I thought it was one game only. 

Very lucky not to be delisted.  Lots of G&D but one dimensional

27 years old & has played 1 game & can only play midfield.