Macca

Yep, the stuff in the background has to have an effect, especially in such a team sport. Hasn't gone away either (IMV) As for training, some players just can't transfer that to match day. It's like those who dominate a level down but in the seniors, they struggle

All 5 for mine ... in a heartbeat

I agree Viney can be persevered with as a small forward ... but he'll need to be coached in a specialist way on how to play the position And that means Viney has to buy-in

Yep but the new game plan requires a lot more gut running and sprinting to position so therefore, a lot more work Bombing it long with a follow up of pressing forward and setting up a zone defence is easier on the legs

The main culprits with regards to not adhering to the new game plan are Max, Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Sparrow & Rivers Their kicks aren't pinpointing and are mostly to a contest or long bombs. That's the pattern Yet all summer we practised the new game plan I'll say it again, there is a lack of a buy-in and I'd hazard to guess that the main culprits don't want to gut run to present or sprint to position. They still want to play the old way Old dogs and new tricks? Yes, that can happen at a young age

So we keep hearing that the players love the coach but they refuse to carry out his game plan? (The older players IMV) Why aren't we blaming the players? You did so in Neeld's first year and for the whole of Roos' tenure Actually, the ire then went to Neeld in 2013 until he was sacked ... then back to the players The word 'Spud' was being freely used like prawns at a buffet

Correct but we need players buzzing around him when he gets the ball Most of his kicks aren't very effective

What about Max? Blazing away when he had a man free in the North game was an eye-opener (might have been the GWS game) He's also the Captain working in conjunction in the midfield with the 3 players that you mentioned (Viney, Petracca & Oliver) I wouldn't be leaving him out of the equation

Interesting observation, Kent, and you may well be right But I really hope you are wrong, because if you are right, we've got a mountain to climb

Ha ha! No I'm up for the challenge but I should stress that I'm not a Goodwin fan It looks that way but again, I'm a stickler for fairness. And I reckon it's grossly unfair to lay the blame of these recent defeats on the coach only I'll say it again ... Don't let the players off the hook They are the ones fumbling, not gut running, dropping easy marks, missing easy targets etc etc etc And that's never going to be a coaching instruction Our players are getting handsomely paid so if they don't perform, isn't it their own fault?

Clubs can clam-up when it suits so trying to figure out what is exactly wrong is difficult But something is not right and we're seeing the evidence of that, on field I don't believe the players hate the coach and I don't reckon they love him either. To me, that's just a bunch of nonsense But playing AFL isn't easy and it's damn complicated for many. Could be that a number of our players are just not up for the challenge A new voice could change all that but regardless, I'd be looking at trading a few players out (for value, hopefully)

Yeah, well maybe the Board might react a bit differently if that happened Don't forget that the Board has to ratify the player contracts and they might want to offload (or dump) salaries elsewhere We did try and offload Oliver and Pert can't have been the only one to know ... I reckon they all knew I'm not calling our efforts on the field a player protest just yet but we'll know if it does go down that path Q

We already got rid of Pert (via the players?) haha Hey, at least myself & Bing have got you blokes & sheilas thinking!

So you'd side with the players? Did you side with the players with '186'? Did you blame Dean Bailey? (RIP) I believe we've got an issue with the messaging but it's not necessarily the fault of the coach There could be all sorts of reasons but one thing is for sure, it doesn't look like the message is getting through The players have tuned out or just aren't listening The players don't like the delivery or the person delivering the message The players don't like the message The message is the wrong message The players have decided that they are going to call the shots The coach's delivery style has no impact The players are too set in their ways and can't change and therefore, they don't want to change Etc etc etc Wasn't 186 a protest against Schwab? Yet Dean took the blow and CS got the contract extension (the next day) What we didn't know was that '186' was just the start Things got worse the next year and even worse the year after

There are issues within the playing group in my opinion Hard to know exactly what it is but we could put 2 and 2 together or join the dots We've seen it before too. Right now it looks like it's the coaching but the lack of response and the lack of effort is on the players My view is that the players are ruling the roost again and the coach's message is falling on deaf ears The Cats will be wanting an easy kill and I just hope the players at least turn up this week

Thanks Bub You're like me, you don't hold grudges Like I've always said ... He who holds a grudge, suffers most And I took @Mel Bourne 's comments in good faith ... it might look like I'm a Goodwin fan but I'm really not I just refuse to believe that all our issues are the fault of one person Felt the same way with Neeld ... the club back then was a complete mess

Watch this space, DZ

Are you serious? I'm of the opinion that the issues we have are not confined to Goodwin And 3 times already I have made mention that we might have a messaging issue Do you want to tell @bing181 to stay away from the thread as well Whatever happened to free speech? You don't like debate? Haha!

Well the list is definitely not the equivalent of a shotgun shack makin' way for units As for rebuilding through the draft (our best bet due to JT) ... if we could somehow get hold of 5 or 6 picks in the top 30 in the 2025 draft, that part-rebuild would be well on it's way Of course, we'd have to give up a bit but what if we were giving up players who don't want to be part of the club going forward?

I'm calling for rebuild (of sorts) Slightly bigger than a mini rebuild

I wouldn't be turning over 30 players ... far from it I just made a comment about the Roos rebuild (which is rarely referenced) But we might need a bit of a cleanout if we are serious about another assault on the flag The bulk of the old group isn't going to win our next flag If augers well, we could be able to challenge in 2027 but we can make finals in 2026 As for this year, it's more of a year where we practice and work on a new game plan And at seasons end we need an influx of fast, skilled players (another 3 or 4 would be handy) But we need to trade aggressively, DZ

Because of out injury list we'd be replacing fumblers with more fumblers I could give you the names but you know who the replacement players would be So if you want change, offer up the alternates, don't just whinge

Roos rebuilt the list which eventuatualy led to a premiership You might be thinking of the failed rebuild from 2007 to 2011 Doesn't get talked about much.but Roos turned over more than 30 players in 3 off-seasons

A fumble is a fumble Same deal for misdirected kicks, dropped marks, missed tackles etc etc Would you be blaming Barassi or Roos if their players made fundamental errors? I think not Your argument lacks consistency and common sense

A wise move, see if you can convince others, DJ!! Another way of looking at the new type of offense ... If you could pick any group of players from any team to embark on a new, fast, direct, precise way of playing, probably the last team you'd pick would be Melbourne We perfected the contested ball, long bomb to the pockets like no other It's any wonder we went back to Plan B last year after dabbling with Plan A I reckon the change that we are looking for is going to take more than half a season. Glimpses yes but a full transformation? It needs time