Macca

@MadAsHell I reckon we've got those Englanders covered! They did get within 3 golds a couple of days ago but we've kicked clear again Currently 60-51 but we've got a number of gold medal chances tonight & tomorrow Hockey x 2, Cricket t20 Women's, Netball, Beach Volleyball and maybe 1 or 2 more in the teams And then the individual gold medals up for grabs .. Track & Field, Boxing, Cycling etc

I agree, layz Lose any or both of the last 2 H & A games and we'd almost certainly need to win 4 finals from the Elimination final onwards (that's a big ask) Lose any final and we're out immediately or, if in the case of losing a QF, we'd then need to win 3 finals after that loss (again, a big ask) We need to start winning and keep winning with no slip-ups In an ideal world, we win our last 2 H & A games, win the QF (against whoever), have a fortnight off and then win the PF And then win the GF As you said, we need to win out

Just noticed that, DZ. I'd already formed a view that he might be on the radar for a few clubs. Not a big money contract as that ship has sailed Playing as a KPF is not for everyone. And they aren't in abundance ... Hogan as a no.2 key forward, yes (for a number of teams who have a scarcity of key forwards) He had a great game ... that'll see fit for a new contract (somewhere) And he is out of contract. A restricted free agent I believe. He's free to a new home if teams want to bypass a trade If he'd lost his way, we wouldn't be seeing these types of performances ... 17 disposals, 4 goals 2 behinds, a dozen marks and he led the AF points (whatever that is) Probably the difference between the 2 sides ... GWS won by 27 points

I normally won't single out an individual player like that but the comparison is very real We have a number of players who are barely hanging on as non-negotiable starters ANB, Spargo, Melksham, Hunt, Sparrow, Hibberd & Rivers are all in the same boat. All playing below their best. On top of that players such as Bowey & Harmes can't get a game after previously being starters Brown's knee is a concern and even Petty looked a bit wobbly on Friday night. And a lot of our best players can play better The good news is that we've seen their best but we need to see that best, pronto It's my belief that we have to win our next 5 encounters and if we do that, the flag is ours. Right now, that's a decent ask. Some would say a big ask, Boots

Carlton losing today now means we can't finish any lower than 6th unless Carlton can somehow make up close on 20% on our percentage. That equates to about 240 points (40 goals) What comes with that is at least one guranteed home final Of course, if we finish 4th or better we'll be guaranteed 2 finals and we may well play all our finals at the MCG (if the cards fall our way) So it won't be 7th or 8th

If I'm going to stick my neck out then I have to be prepared to argue my case So if you disagree with what I've said, that's fine. I can argue back. It's called a discussion and we don't have to agree So obviously, when it's a touchy subject like the one surrounding Jesse Hogan, there's going to be some to and fro And I'm well aware of that so the pushback is going to happen What's the big deal? It's not like any of us are involved in the actual decision making Just chewing the fat My motive is for the team to be a better team. As it is for everyone here If we were in a pub talking like this, I guarantee that we'd probably have a good laugh about it as we were stating our cases And I'd like to say I'm out of here as well but I just know I'm going to be quoted again! haha

Hogan wouldn't be the only KPF that we could look at So you are wrong about convincing myself ... the thread is about Hogan, not a general thread about KPF's If we did have a general thread about available KPF's his name would obviously be brought up Anyway, we've got Weideman as our no.1, no.2 or no.3 key forward this season and beyond (depending on injuries) ... unless JVR comes on or we get another KPF from elsewhere (and they are hard to acquire) What's your choice? Another year of Weideman next year or Hogan? By the way, I certainly wouldn't have Hogan back for sentimental reasons ... it's his footy that I'm interested in

I reckon if you (and others) were to look at players as commodities only, you might see things differently We often get too involved emotionally or detach ourselves emotionally. Where as my view is unemotional. More clinical As an example, Demon supporters hated Big Carl but when he came and played for us and then coached us, we loved the bloke Me, I never hated Carl for starters so when he came to us I just looked at what sort of value he would bring It's the same with Hogan, if we believe that he has got his act together off the field (on the field, he's playing quite well) then why put up a stop sign? Do you not believe that Hesse has got his act together? Are you concerned about a relapse? If so, why? So if he has got his act together and can play good football, there is no risk

I disagree We demanded those picks and got them. Do you not remember Peter Bell holding out? I'm not surprised that many will hold a grudge. That's how these things work (the mob mentality, group-think, the establishment view etc etc) Question for you What is your real issue with Jesse? Do you hate the bloke? Do you not have a forgiving nature?

So why on earth has he persevered with Weideman?

His 3rd chance at GWS has been his redemption so that can't be counted as a 3rd fail And if his 4th change of environment is also successful then that's 2 from 4? At the back end. Trending the right way I'd also argue that his numbers in his last year with us (2018) were very good. And we missed his presence in the 2018 Prelim final. He had a more than decent year in 2018 And technically, we'd be giving Jesse his 2nd chance at our club He had his father's death to deal with along with contracting testicular cancer He had a lot on his plate when he had his troubles He's got his act together and that's good enough for me. I'd have him back right now I'd the rules allowed it. Low salary and can play. Cost? At most, a high 2nd round pick. And it wouldn't be too difficult to prise him away from GWS ... they need to trade players We lack key forwards who can play and remain on the field What's not to like? I've thought all year that the difference between winning multiple flags (or not) is a functioning forward line. We could be back to Weideman as our main man in a week or 2 if Brown's knee plays up again Right on the eve of the finals Finally, Jesse wasn't part of a fire sale ... we valued him so highly that we ended up getting pick 6 & pick 22 for him from Freo ... and we turned those picks into May & Sparrow We could get him back for about pick 35 That's a bargain

The Lions have played well and will be tough to beat in a fortnight. They play their home ground well Carlton are ordinary and if we lost to them next week (with or without Cripps) that would be a huge disappointment 12.10 to 3.6 is damning

Even more damning if Ah Chee misses a game through concussion protocols At least 2 weeks, possibly 3 for Cripps

Players are responsible, that's just the way it is now. Matthews, Darcy & Hodge are too old school He'll get cited and could be 2 games out. Maybe 3. Looked blatant to me Ah Chee was subbed off as well Cripps is in trouble Unbiased view as well as I recognise that we play them next week

North are a rubbish team ... I'd say they are doing their best But their best is not good!

It is certainly not a silly thread for any number of reasons For a start, we need up and running KPF's for next year and beyond. 3 genuine types are needed when factoring in injuries So where do we sit right now? I'm not sure we've got 1 genuine starter unless Brown & T-Mac can be injury free in the future. And both will be in their 30's from next season ... injury prone in your 30's? Weideman & Mitch Brown are not the answer whilst Van Rooyen is a project player I understand Weideman is contracted for next season but we might view him as a 4th ruckman/spare KF. He can be the new Mitch Brown So, in an ideal world we bring in an established KF to bolster the ranks Who's available? Does our club give Hogan a 2nd chance? He's stayed out of the news for near on 2 years now and he can still play. I still view him as a proper forward who has presence and gets to the right spots We've all been afforded 2nd chances in our own lives so why not Jesse?

Ah yes, Civ The last hope is the mathematical possibility We've still got that one up our sleeve!

I remember that and at the time I thought I'd cop plenty of grief coming back, Col ... but that didn't happen. It's fair to say that the appraisals were rather damning! Fast forward to right now and most of our players are down on their best in some ways, haven't come on or have stagnated The optimists will point at our standout performances (Impressive Lions and Freo wins and our 10 & 0 start to the season) whilst the pessimists will focus on the 6 losses from our last 10. And both evaluations are correct in isolation But from an overall perspective, we are just not playing well enough right now. As a team or as individuals Beat Carlton and everything can change ... one win and then we play for the next win. And the next win would be for the double chance in the finals. It's all on the line and the way forward is crystal clear. We've eliminated the grey area with those losses

Numerous players are down on their best whilst others have stagnated or just not come on The best way to evaluate is to look at how we have played in the last 10 games 2 excellent games with 8 x Non A Grade efforts ... and that's way too many. 2 or 3 off days might be acceptable for a supposed A Grade team. Not 8 We were not all that impressive against the Crows & Port whilst we lost 6 of the other 10 games with below par efforts So if we are loading, tapering or whatever, it isn't working. It's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow

Fulham go ahead of Liverpool 2-1 with 20 minutes left. Who would have thought? Klopp pacing on the sidelines nervously Still time for the Reds if they're good enough

Oh and @layzie The last 15 times we've met the Pies in a final we've prevailed 14 times We own them in September!

Good outcomes don't come easy, layz Might be just the wake up call we needed, losing last night. We now know what's required to go deep in September. It's crystal clear and there are no excuses. If we were getting ahead of ourselves, that thinking will have disappeared In an odd way, Ed's words have made sure that we now need to clam up and just get the job done. I can see the team becoming totally focused now with no distractions As for Collingwood, they are a dangrous opponent and it will be a challenge to beat them next time. They are very efficient when they have the ball and they stifle the opposition when the opposition have the ball. Eventually they win the ball back and they are off They have close wins and they lose many of the stat categories but their efficiency wins out. They don't waste their opportunities. And they don't give up Every time they win the ball back they've got a plan to score with that opportunity A bit like when Tom Brady has the ball in his hands ... efficiency is the forte Our coaching staff can learn from how the Pies play ... we need to be more efficient and not waste possessions So we learn from the loss so it's not a total disaster (much like the Cats have learnt from their PF loss to us) We're still in the game and we've still got the game to win big

No sweat layz, we'll beat the Blues next week and then our destiny will be in our own hands (which includes playing for a top 4 berth with a possible re-match against the Pies or Cats first up in the finals) You've got to love a challenge and we'll be up for that challenge The next win changes everything and we will bounce back ... the lads will be smarting about last night's result

@Gorgoroth@layzie@Dee Zephyr@Go the Biff@Clintosaurus @JV7@DeeSpencer@Dappa Dan@titan_uranus@DemonDave@BDA The practice games have started already! Not that the result means much but the Jags went down to the Raiders on Friday There's a full list of games next weekend including the Packers @ 49ers on Saturday ... 10.30am Oz time If you've got the ESPN app, you'll find all the scheduled games If I get a chance I'll try and find what the main talking points are going into the new season (apart from the latest installment of the Tom Brady show!) Season proper kicks off on Friday Sept 9th (Bills @ Rams) Happy to run with the tipping comp again. We should get enough starters

Yep, they've got that home field advantage and England have traditionally done well in the track & field events too Looks like it's going down to the wire, TD Because of work commitments I haven't been able to watch and follow the games closely this time around ... and there's only 2 years to the Paris Olympics! Will try and catch up tonight, tomorrow & Monday. There's still a stack of medals to play for