Demon Dynasty

I agree with you on Davey working harder - but if you want to be surprised look up Thomas's statistics - not a similar size at all

Hopefully the rocket's being inserted this week! 3 2 1 >>>>> FLASH!!!

B)

If you're going to embark on a trading strategy, then the best types to target are the 21-23 year olds who feel they aren't getting the opportunities they want and hoping you get something of quality. Then at least, rather than getting a Macdonald or Warnock, you might get a Heath Scotland or a Shaun Grigg. Still hardly sounds worth the effort to me though. I think at this point the better option is to just back in the talent we have.

I think this is just one of the issues that sets the MFC apart (as well as other long term struggling clubs) from the top clubs. We seem to struggle developing promising recruits past a C/B grade for some reason. Might be a systemic development issue that needs to be assessed from outside and addressed by the board/FD if it hasn't already. Could also be the quality of the recruiting and the recruiting dept's methods/peeps etc. Maybe both!

Were we able to take more of our younger/promising recruits beyond C/B graders, we obviously wouldn't be so concerned with the state of the team right now and we more than likely wouldn't be seeing the poor results we saw on Thurs eve as player list/talent/skills would be developing along the expected time line/development program, and the output/effort would be showing ever improving outcomes both at the player level and team performances.

I'm certainly not saying we wouldn't have our occasional downs along the way regardless. Just not to the depths we saw on Thurs, nor the 2nd half disappearing act against the Dawks. For some, including within the club, a 3 year regression to 2008 performance levels! B)

It is pretty clear that we have a big hole in our list in terms of older players. We have moved on Miller, Bruce and Junior. I am of the opinion that with a whole swag of good kids (and Viney coming soon) we can afford to move a few on for some bigger bodied players.

Yep. We need some grunt and some severe agro players to put the fear of Lucifer into the opposition. What's the chances of us trading a few skinny C graders for the hulk, The Thing and Abomination you reckon?

B)

If Adelaide win and smash us in the ruck. Questions will be asked about dropping Martin. Big call to dump him for mine. Especially as he has been one of the few good things to come out of the early games.

Agreed. Jamar needs decent back up. Newton too slight for hevy body ruckwork required and has shown he doesn't like the hard stuff that much so far.

Dunn up forward any day if he's in form and ball actually makes it there enough times. He's shown he can be a multiple goal kicker at least on a good day. No way should he be rucking or out of the team at this point given our limited forward options.

Martin is just beginning to find his feet with his newly improved man bod (more work needed though) and able to take on a bigger work load to assist Jamar and pffffft....he's out. Typical of our poor selection methods IMO....over many decades. Happy to be proven wrong though. lets see how they go Sunday. B)

If Scully is not happy at the MFC, it does not mean he is GWS bound. There are plenty of clubs out there that would make a play for him, dont think its just GWS that is after him.

Nice point Stur. My other concern is that if Scully decides to Bail , then others of his recruiting era and ilk may decide it's a good move also......

However, we're assuming so much at this early stage. One big positive is, we're still in the 8. I still got faith we can turn this around this year, and make a GF in the next 2 to 4, provided i can see...

1. Maximum effort, passion and a willingness to bleed for the jumper from here, week in week out (ie., Draw a line in the sand within the FD/Leaders/all players);

2. No more Thurs night/2nd half 'Hawkish' repeats (if we do, this post is null & VOID!);

3. Some semblance of a game plan taking form and consistently working for us;

4. Winning more first quarters than we lose;

5. Winning the ball out of the centre more often than not and certainly not getting smashed big time here most weeks.

6. Developing our game plan so that we begin to master the press (defensively and offensively)

7. A substantial number of our rookie bods & C,D graders turning into man bods & B,A graders. IMO, outside of Moloney, Jamar, Bate, Jones, Sylvia and Tapscott our senior list lacks physical prescence and grunt...STILL!

You don't see too many premierships won without big boys with big bods and lots of talent through the middle/up front etc etc. Bangin in and gettin the hard contested ball and stripping other players of possession etc (generally speaking. There's always a few slightly built outside runners/receivers and highly skilled smalls in the mix of course, along with a myriad of other factors/skills that you gotta get right!);

8. In line with 7...we're gonna have to trade VERY wisely from here to fill a few gaping holes; AND

9. Subject to injuries/luck, we should at the very least, finish in the 8 this year or come within a bee's dik of making it.

Not asking too much am i? B)

A few things. Every recruiter knew that Darling would do this, he is a ready made forward. The reason he went so low is he is a loose cannon and has a reputation of terrible off field behaviour. If you've noticed Melbourne drafts a certain breed of young men and Martin, like Darling definatly didnt fit into that category. Last year everyone was talking about Scully and Trengove, Martin was the 'other guy'. Now Scully is injured and Trengrove has no midfield around him and Martin has popped up. Let him have his fun. No one would have picked Martin at 2. No one. Not even Richmond.

And for the other examples; Hurley, Fyfe, Hill. They have been good. Just like the 2001 draft of Montanga, Mitchell, Swan, Ablett, Ball, Judd and Hodge they are all good plyers. Will Tapscott be better than Fyfe - we dont know yet. Will Watts be better than Hurley - who knows. We took the players we believed will take us to a premiership and on their 'potential' and Under 18 form. Fyfe didnt fire but Tappy did.

But I ask you this, is Hodge (who went no.1) that much better than Mitchell (who went n.35)? My point is these boys are only 2nd year players (Watts and Blease and in that category). We're going to have to give them one more before we call for their heads.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/6125234/teen-footy-star-caught-in-camp-romp/

Re: Blease. Not that it means much but a few senior Bomber aquaintances of mine were upset they didn't get him in draft & rated him as a "gonna be gun" with huge wraps. Takes a young body a while to get over an injury like that and a couple more to build into man size for the rigours of this game....also in his head too (confidence wise). I'm very patient on Blease givn his injury, but also hangin out to see what he's got B)

I'm one of those people who still believes the darkest hour is always before dawn. But it's been an awfully long night with Bailey. If we have to look for a new coach what about Alistair Clarkson? From what I have heard he has not extended his contract with Hawthorn for next season. The papers report rumblings that he has issues with the likes of Jeff Kennett. Over the past six years he has proved to be an innovative premiership coach. He is still young and fresh and appears to have the ability to be a front runner as far as developing game plans and players to match or keep ahead of the herd. He is also a former Melbourne player who played against stereotype. He played 40 odd mostly excellent games with us and had a tough mean streak. I think he would be a great coach for us and knows exactly what it takes to win a flag. About time we become proactive and try to poach this guy even if it costs big bucks.

Who wouldn't? B)

This is a great topic and one which i feel is right at the crux and heart of our problems.

Leadership....lacking

Starts from the top...

And Jimmy is right at the top of the tree.

He has shown leadership. He's shown guts under the most trying of circumstances. He's shown and done things for this Club beyond the call of duty. Leading by example (eg., heading up the debt demolition, targeting 40,000 members)

He has changed the culture of this club off the field....BIG TIME and hopefully forever going forward.

Now, The Club has gradually moved into and accepted his brand of culture as its blueprint.

Bottom line is, get the off field right including club administration AND the FD facilities, training/fitness equipment, coaching panel, fitness staff etc etc.

I would say a big tick here with the new admin/training facilities/base etc.

Off field also includes us, the supporter group and specifically memberships and the drive in involve members more directly.

I would give another big tick here (albeit membership has stalled in last few weeks given our performances on field). But still, record membership again to date!

Now to the Coach, coaching panel and playing list.....

It's almost there BUT!! He feels something is missing too (along with many others including some of us on here obviously).

I'm pretty sure he wont publicly vent exactly what it is he actually sees or what it is he suspects about our FD that he feels maybe isn't quite right, or maybe a long way from being right.

Nonetheless....as we now know, he's about to show leadership, and take on the overseeing of the FD himself.

Now, those at the top of the FD, starting with DB, will hopefully put their egos away for a moment and sense that something isn't right also. The attitude/direction/game plan/attention to the forward press etc (however you define it) needs modifying if we are to put this tram back on the rails as so succintly put by Bz in an excellent post earlier (in another topic).

It's come down to getting the FD either back on the right path from here OR (after a serious review at some stage down the track should things not go the way they are expected) a drastically new path.

I believe Jimmy senses that "something" isn't quite right also. He just wants to know that everything that could/should be done within the FD is being done to the best of the FD's ability.

He must also feel (or felt before Thurs night) that we are/were not far away from being a finals contender with this group THIS YEAR. Like many of the supporters here, something has tweaked him into action after Thursday. Maybe it was simply watching the way we played the game. Maybe rumblings within the club/supporter group. Only he would know of course.

My humble opinion is....The Culture of the club has finally changed from the top!

From generally accepting losses such as that on Thurs eve and just trying to put them behind us, to that of a winning one where we analyse and say "this needs fixing" (as the top clubs tend to do)...no matter what the cost (with logic and reason of course lol).

Mediocrity and 2nd best efforts (or just turning up as we did on Thurs eve or disappearing as we did against the Hawks) will no longer be tolerated at this club.

The time has come for this club to stamp itself as a Mighty force once more. To cast the mediocrity of the last 47 years to the four winds! Cometh the moment. Cometh the man.

Jimmy is that man. And Jimmy will now instil his leadership qualities onto the FD...AND...indirectly...into the senior players et al

We, as a club collectively (with through the strong leadership of Jimmy at the helm), have finally drawn a line in the sand!

It is now time for the FD and the players to draw theirs (now, next week & forever)

Mighty Demons Forever!

Jimma was never one to just sit back and wait for things to happen. Loved playin on the ball so he was in the thick of the action.

His off field style is a reflection of his on field actions: Leadership, guts and determination to succeed.

I always swore he wished he was a foot smaller so he could take on a true roving role. GL Jimmy! B)

I'm about to go to a Devils Advocates function.

Speaker is Todd Viney and a few of the players will be there.

Should be interesting and I hope to report on it later.

Any questions?

Was my old user name (Devils Advocate) on Demonology many years ago B)

Joe Rugolo: What can i say that hasn't already been said about Frank...i mean...Joe ~ahem

Andy Goodwin: For the best laugh (reserves match pre game... "shoe laces saga") i ever had. Bro too! :

Welcome Rusty.

There's two different photos you can upload - IIRC your photo is what appears on your profile page and your avatar displays under your name on all the posts you make. I can see your photo on your profile, so chances are you uploaded to the wrong one

Thanks Eth. Finally got there. Also i was just wondering how u post with the permanent quote thingy underneath that you have there pls? Anyone lol?

No doubt. Some might well hold off.

Umm..Hi there High. Just checking me new photo out to see if it's working. Sorry all for interupting u with newb stuff. Can delete this after a few minies if u want mod...cheers

Am I alone in thinking I'd love to hear less about Nathan Jones tweeting his legion of followers, and more about him playing better and more consistent footy?

Surfs up, you dig your chick, the chicken pasta you just ate was just heaven. That's nice mate. Get a kick!

Or this doozy pre match last week..... "Heading to SUbi for a session! Been hanging for this all day! To Have a little trundle & kick with the boys".

Hmmmm....that's pretty much what the boys did on match day too B)

A bit of mongrel & desire to rip the opposition apart with physical aggression when not in possession. Work Rate & Hard Running, Tackling, pressure, chasing, all the so called 1 percenters which should be just an every game non negotiable norm at the club, but this team seems to struggle to perform.

Ditto B)

Must win? Respectable margin? Greater tackling pressure? Winning contested possessions?

Anyone who says "winning quarters" will be banned from this thread.

Prior to last Thursday >>> Crush the #^#%*& by at least 10 goals!

After last Thursday >>> ummmmmmmm

add:

Melbourne Pride

Melbourne Self-belief

and Demon supporter patience..

all about 4-6 weeks away...at best

Too funny BZ Unfortunately that's closer to the truth than i care to admit. Hoping this looming cacoon of horror fades away with a big turnaround in the next 8 weeks

Would you consider a Viney/ Lyon combo.

Viney as an assistant, coaching as he did at Hawks no probs. Forget about G. Lyon. He aint comin. Makin too much ezy foldin stuff elsewhere me thinks B)

Raise a noose instead of the Grand Old Flag. That should give everyone a rev.

Lol Super. Gotta ditch that practice quick smart eh. Maybe the person who came up with the idea.....put em in the noose and.....drumroll pls!!! B)

I still would have picked Sheeds and he wanted the job at the time - membership would have gone through the roof - he's tough

I'm with you on that one Nice. I would have preferred this for at least the first 3 years of the rebuild. Especially with so many young recruits coming in. The respect would have been massive and he would hopefully have have moulded them with the right culture/practices/attitude etc.

I too think we would have picked up a lazy 3,000 to 5,000 members and maybe even pushed for a birth in the Anzac day blockbuster!! Imagine the head to head....Sheeds vs Malthouse! Folks...they're back at it again on this great day! Haha.... oops...i digress

Although, back to a more serious note, i recall hearing Sheeds being asked about Bails after his appointment, and he couldn't have been more complimentary. He believed Bails was ripe and well groomed for success. Made me feel confident in the selection anyway.

As disappointed as some of us are in whats happened this year to this point, deep down i'm sure many here (including myself) are hoping Bailey & the boys can pull this out of the fire and achieve something amazing for themselves and us. And finally turn our Demons into a Mighty Force once again!

As many of you have stated so well already, other successful teams (eg., Geelong early in 2007, and their finishing 10th in 2006) have been in this position before and managed to turn it around and find glory. I live in hope that this will be us from here.

Arghh...someone belt me over the head with a hammer, i'm dreamin again B)

Welcome rusty, your doing a fine demonic job trying to undermine the current coach... Keep it up mate, and welcome to the dungeon.

It's just a pity your so young on these board.

And yet you converse so well...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here Dee but thanks for voting mate...and thanks for the welcome...i think! B)

Just show us all that you have a "PASSIONATE" desire to turn it all around, Brad!

No passion = no commitment! Jeez our club has developed a soft exterior.

No more poofy talk, get on with performing on stage................all of you!

OH YEAH! Time for the boys on this list (they know who they are) to grow into MEN! Both mentally and physically, on the field and off! 2yrs enough? The rest of this season is gonna be real interesting for us demonoids. Hopefully for all the right reasons! At the same time we gotta back our club 110% so no one (including the FD) can say we weren't backing em to the hilt.

For one decade of my life I wanna be able to say... Go you MIGHTY Demons! And know that the MIGHTY has real meaning and puts the fear of Bael into our opponents rather than just saying it in hope (Thats Bael, head of the Infernal armies of 66 legions, not to be confused with Bailey). B)

Over the past few seasons the focus has been on contested footy and tackling, thats fine and extremely important but we don't do is help out our team mates. We don't create space by blocking and protecting, we don't apply any blocks on tags, we don't protect the man going for a mark. I went to Subiaco and what the Eagles did was work hard off the ball to do those things I just mentioned. Everytime we kicked to a contest one an Eagle player would put work to take the Melbourne player out of the contest leaving his opponent to take an easy mark, it as just a simple bump that put us off balance. At stoppages the Eagles protected areas created space which resulted in effective clearances. We win the tap and it was either sharked by the Eagles or we got caught for a seondary bounce.

Look at the amount of times we get first hands on the footy at stopages but can't break free, this means that players are more concerned about spreading rather than help to create space for the person with the footy.

No arguments from me on this one. The little things and the one percenters can make a big impact to the end result for sure. Unfortunately, we are way down versus the top 5 over almost any meaningful comparative period in the last 4 years on these stats (not telling anyone anything new here i know). As Acka Dacka sings, "it's a long way to the top if u wanna get outta this hole!" And boy, have we got a long way to go before we even resemble a fair dinkum truly competitive (and feared) footy team.

What does our FD (or any FD) do with all these KPI's re: team selection anyway? Each player set certain minimum KPI(s) levels for certain criteria that's expected depending on their position/role over a rolling period of say 3 to 5 games at a stretch? If they aren't met, you look to replace with alternatives from affiliate VFL, in our case Casey? No need to answer guys! I don't profess to be an expert in the nitty gritty of day to day professional football operations. I can't help but wonder tho lol. Regardless, there's gotta be a quantitative and qualitative processes by which they determine the ins and outs. But that's a whole topic away for me (ok maybe 50 topics and a years apprenticeship with the Mick before i'd even start to get it lol)

Although according to more learned peeps than me, we don't have too many "walk-up" alternatives at Casey right now with the exception of Petterd and Bater (oh...lets not forget the big FEV! Hmmm ) . I'm referring to plow and one other SEN commentator who apparently watched Casey's game against Frankston yesterday. And no, i aint saying Plow and SEN commentators are the only source we should take notice of re: Casey alternatives/potentials. Nor do i think any potential/existing footballer should be judged on 1 game alone B)

Here's another problem. We call our good players "Champions".

Luke Hodge is a champion. Chris Judd is a champion. Scott Pendlebury is a champion.

Brad Green is and has been a good to very good player.

We have not had a champion footballer since Flower.

G'day Range. Interesting post. More referring to champion as in "amongst our playing group" he would be seen as probably our only champion at this point. Agreed there's also very few from past years i would consider a true champion in a "comparative" sense with the rest of the league since Gary Lyon. That's just My op. However, if you were to place Greeny in a champion team (prior to this year anyway) i think he would be very highly rated and considered close to or just behind some of the other leading super stars. Emphasis on "close". B)

Not particulalrly the best or thoroughly thought out selctions there.

You cant have Micky Mouse yet for starters., so the logic of some otherwise interesting scenarios is prohibited.

Quite frankly Ive had enough of the current coaching failure.. If I hear the word (s) developmental phase once more I may be reduced to harming someone.A club is always developing, it should never rest on its laurels ( not thatwe have any ) however we need to focus on actually playing the game and with some direction and purpose.This clearly isnt happening or has failed miserably.

In thatvein I prefer a new coach for nextyear. With him wil come a number of new assisatants. Id like Viney to now come into the mix as an assistant..He DOES know how to play the game.

So I do want Bailey replaced but despite the temptationto knee-jerk id aloow him to play out the season. But hes a dead duck walking for mine

Thanks Belze. Always enjoy reading your posts mate. Please note ASAP emphasis. Obviously we can't have Malthouse right now, that's a given. Maybe Krusty? He's got 1 vote already (and an endless supply of Duff at his disposal! Lucifer knows i need a heap of those after Thursday night)....