Demon Dynasty

This whole blame the culture and development really grinds my gears.

The players need to taken some serious responsibility. At the end of the day the club has gone through two boards, two presidents, two CEOs, two coaches, and numerous staff... whats the largest common demoninator? I'll give you a hint; it's the people who actually play.

Subjected to 'Melbourne conditioning' - spare me.

They get paid on average $250k, and if you're a Melbourne player, for not a lot of work.

If they think they will be the best, or elite, just by doing what's required of them then not only are they lazy but dumb. Ablett, Swan, Cotchin, you get the picture, do you think they got to where they are just by going what's required of them?

Do you think they needed people to hold their hand and tell them that their job is from 9 to 5 but their career is made from what they do outside of that?

PJ you are spot on in terms of where the buck stops. That's why i'd rather see Roos signed up for as long as possible. I don't want anymore excuses for anyone pulling on the red and blue. Sooky time is over.

10 years is usually how long it takes for a certain regime to win a flag.

That's a fair assessment i think CBF. I wouldn't expect us to go anywhere near the top 4 this side of 8 to 10 years. And that would be assuming we got everything right from here.

I like your abreviated name by the way. Reminds me of how i feel when bro asks me if i'm going to the match

why wasn't Frawley dropped then, or Howe? I don't know how serious you can be as a coach if you tolerate peahearts not trying

I'm sure he's thinking about these two as well C&B but not easy to replace Frawley at this point. I agree that his efforts, after the initial contest and spoil, is sub par. He also tends to take the "safe option" but not necessarily the best options when disposing the ball on the run or after receiving.

I think Howe would need to seriously perform whatever role he's given this week or i think you might find he'll be out as well C&B.

Trengove on the other hand is not the hardest player to replace or improve upon given his poor form in the last 12 months. Not a key position player like Chip either.

I don't think he is nearly as quick as those players when it comes to disposing the ball, that is one thing they are terrific at and makes up for their lack of leg speed.

Agree Clint. Not only is he slow across the ground, he's very slow to react, with or without the ball.

We will start to improve when we stop making excuses. I have never known a sporting organisation to make and accept so many excuses. Still cannot believe the talk last week about forgetting about the scoreboard and I almost vomitted when I heard Jack Grimes was asked whether Paul Roos' contract situation is a distraction to the players. Bugger me how many things can people think up to excuse this lot. Paul Roos' contract didn't make Grimes fumble and bumble his way through the game last weekend. Paul Roos' contract ins't making Jack Trengove, for some bizarre reason, slow down and steady himself BEFORE HE EVEN GETS THE BALL! What these blokes are turning out is way below what we should expect from them, and there are still people that defend some of these things.

I remember watching Mark Baguley playing what I think might have been his second game for Essendon back in 2012 on a Friday night vs. Geelong. Watching it, I felt sorry for him because I thought 'Geez this bloke is so far out of his depth it isn't funny'. He looked way too slow for the game, couldn't hit a target and couldn't stop his man for love nor money. I thought there's no way they can play this bloke again. But the mistakes he was making aren't acceptable at Essendon. Whatever they told him, taught him, demanded from him or he demanded from himself he was able to cut those mistakes out and has been able to establish himself as a reliable role player for them within a very short period of time. Now you can't tell me he is considerably more talented than many of the players we have? And I don't believe it comes down to coaching. It comes down to what level of performance is acceptable at the football club. We are still excusing too many mistakes from people who shouldn't be committing them.

Yep... i'll second that

When? When our leadership group stands up (on the field) would be a good start.

Leadership group:

Clarke - ?

Garland - back soon, so hope he sets good example

Frawley - playing without endeavour

Trengrove - struggling

Jones - Champion and quickly becoming the stand out leader

Grimes - tries hard but not effective

Are our leaders unified? Do they have their on-field leadership roles sorted? I didn't see many on field huddles/leaders talking on Sunday. I didn't see much encouragement (eg JKH 1st AFL goal). We don't have a leader on the forward half but none of our leaders took on the role on Sunday. I don't feel our leaders can galvanise the players when things aren't going well on the field. It can't be left only up to Jones to be the lone ranger. Even if leaders individually are having a bad game they can still stand up as leaders, can't they?

Our leaders need to stand up on the field!!!! As a leadership group not just as individuals. It is about behaviours guys, not titles!!! We need to see them lead on the field not at training, not at functions, not in the press. On the field!!!!

Until they do it will be very hard for the rest of the team to make the extra effort to be competative.

End rant.

Clark - "Blankety Blanks"

Garland - The only time i want him leading is with a heap of bounces, breaking lines and hitting up leads. And defensive punches lol. That's the best leadership he could give this Ent footed back line atm.

Frawley - Has never been a stand out leader IMO. A solid defender in the one on one contest but if he wins the ball he refuses to take opponents on or take any risks. Always the easiest give off lateral/backwards or just down the line for James.

Trengove - Love the bloke and hope he turns it around but i have a friend with a tortoise that moves faster. If you aint got it you aint got it.

Jones boy - The clandestine leader of the club for the last 2 seasons IMO. Doesn't need to become the stand out leader, as he's already standing up IMO. He is leading by every example, every bruising tackle, every clearance. The only thing missing here is match winning finish and top line disposal . Other than that we have ourselves one worthy captain.

He's leading the averages on so many key stats including..... contested, uncontested, clearances, effective disposals and tackles so far. What more can you say! If these blokes follow the jones boy and we get ourselves some great outside runners to take the game on, and a forward line (who knows when these things will happen), we will start winning.

I think Roos and co know exactly what's needed at Melbourne in terms of quality through the midfield. He mentioned before the season, and you can see it's given us some more depth but it's still not enough and he'll know that..

Forget about the forwardline for a minute, obviously we're struggling with our three kpps all injured....

One of the major problems lies within the psyche of many players on our list and we'll know we are on the right path only when we see the habits of these individuals change onfield. Either that, or they will not be on the list next year or the year after. I'm talking about individuals who perhaps have talent and skill, but due to poor development and what I would term 'MFC conditioning', play at an intensity and level that is far below what is required to succeed at this level. Jack Watts, James Frawley at times, Sam Blease etc are some examples.

Another problem is that due to our terrible track record with drafting in the past, we are relying on players who simply do not have the ability to play at this level. If you look at who we've moved on over the last few years you'll realise it's those guys who at other clubs would be the ones helping carry the team forward. But alas, due to a combination of poor player development, poor recruiting and/or being subject to this 'MFC Conditioning', they didn't and haven't come on. Examples are Gysberts, Cook, Bate, Morton, Maric, Sylvia, Bennell etc..

So the guys who are now getting games because of this huge turnover of players, (most of whom were picked early in their respective drafts) who shouldn't be are the following: Nicholson, Bail, Matt Jones, Byrnes, Pederson, Spencer etc

That's a list of very average players who on the weekend against West Coast gave us very little.

The problems with our list, development and culture are all very complex and the only way I see us improving over the next few years is by doing more smart trading and bringing in more 'quality' players such as Vince. The Tyson and Salem trade was a big win I believe and it would be huge if we could do something similar next year. I'm not opposed to another Cross-like pickup either. Getting him is completely different to when we went after Byrnes. Cross is as fit as ever and can play but the dogs needed to keep giving their plethora of young gun mids games. Byrnes was brought in purely because he was from a 'successful' environment.

I also have much greater faith in our recruiting department and that they won't make the same mistakes as the previous lot did.

Whilst I'm sure we'll have a more successful second half of the year, (providing our tall forwards are ready and our midfield stocks stay injury free), next offseason is going to be another huge one for the club with some of the decisions they need to make. We need to bring in more quality midfielders. If that can happen with Frawley leaving, so be it. I'd say he's almost shot the way he goes about it for us so I'm happy to look at the bigger picture.

We need quality, quality and more quality.

It's gonna be another long year..

A well constructed post, again, steve.

You have a good objective view of things mate

Was that all the fit players they could muster ? :-)

Ahaha ... touche' mono!

Nice work mate

Wow, that's "heavy traffic" even for that part of town! Or did you go around the block a few times??

Yup... Punt Rd rarely moves quickly. And i can meander a little. Not many argue as the bus is about 12 meters long and weighs just over 12 ton unladen. There's also a thing called a bus stop. And yes i have to do return trips past there about 30 minutes after each journey into city. Might be slow but not THAT slow Akum haha

Thanks RN.

Something is better than nothing.

Yw Ox...just some very loose observations

Judging by team selection for this week, it would appear that, despite the concerns expressed by many, we seem to be making some progress on the injury front.

We have a squad of 25 selected for Sunday's game of which I assume two will not travel to Sydney, leaving 16 to play for Casey which would be above the usual average of past years in the early part of the season.

We have 40 on the senior list, 4 rookies and our international zone rookie Maia Westrupp who most likely would have played in the Casey development team but for the fact that it has a bye.

That leaves the following players not in action at the weekend due to injury/illness -

Jesse Hogan (TBA)

Chris Dawes (a week or two away)

Mitch Clark (indefinite)

James Strauss (mystery injury of the week)

Colin Garland (close to a return)

Max Gawn (close to a return)

There's obviously still some frustration over not having those key forwards, but at least there's some hope on the horizon. Next week we play Carlton who have a fairly long injury list and they've just lost Kreuzer for 12 - 14 after getting rid of Hampson and Jacobs a couple of years ago leaving them with only Warnock to carry the ruck duties.

I'll believe there's progress when i see them running around on the park kicking butt.... we couldn't have had a worse start to an opening of a season than this IMO. Well, unless we lost say the Jones boy as well to injury pre season (touch wood and my block head).

Frankly, i have NFI when i will see it turn.

The sooner the better

Good luck to Mitch. I'd be shocked if he ever plays again. Whenever I get angry and disheartened about Melbourne I always think enough is enough and I should move on. Then I drink some concrete, harden the [censored] up and wait for the next crap thing to happen to this club.

I wouldn't Cowboy.

I wish Mitch all the best as well and i'm sure he has some issues to deal with.

However, if i were to see him settle up with us and step out of the game for the remainder of the year, only to see a miraculous recovery towards the end of this year and a return to AFL with the either the Dockers or Weagles in 2015 kicking ass, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

ENYAW i think there is much truth to this but i also think it lies somewhere "between the ears" and what OD is alluding to ie., that you can't make a silk purse etc.

Apart from their inability/lack of coolness/awareness under heat to execute under pressure, there are some major issues the bulk of our team just hasn't shown, not since at least 2006 or so anyway. There have been some minor break outs, where i've seen signs, like the first 15 minutes or so of the first quarter against the Saints this year and one other match where we almost beat the Saints going back a year or 2 (can't recall which year or round but it was under Neeld's nightmare reign).

1. We haven't been able or capable of producing the shear all out animal aggression and attack on the ball and ball carrier that we see from many of the top teams on a regular basis that pressures them into regular turnovers (this could be a youth issue but hey, i feel that's a cop out...the Saints were as inexperienced as us!).
2. This is very much linked to the above, we just don't hunt the footy or opposition in numbers like other top teams do, nor do we run in waves from the back half, nor spread quickly enough from stoppages, nor lead up and back enough to provide targets further up the field like top teams do over the course of a match for at least roughly 3 out of the 4 quarters (ie., enough of it to ensure they have a good chance of staying in a game or winning it).
3. We don't take enough risks in play generally. That is, we prefer to try and maintain possession. There's very few desperation acts ( such as punching/kicking/slapping ball forward along the ground or at a ball up contest). Nor do we run the ball (bouncing) and drawing the opposition to create the overlap all that often (the stats so far this season bear that out). Given we don't yet have the precision skills by foot when looking to break the press, this usually results in most possessions being either a switch kick to an easy free man, either sideways or backwards in the back half, or a quick panic handball (often when under little or no pressure) to basically anyone within cooee, even if he is standing still or about to be wrapped up, often resulting in a turnover and quick fast break goal/score to the opposition.
4. We seem to rarely cover the sweeper (+1) effectively in the center bounce, which usually allows that free man (should he gain first possession) an easy first disposal, which will then more often than not result in a quick pass, bomb or running play forward into our defensive 50, placing huge pressure on our defense too often when there's a center bounce. The opposition often manage to knock it towards (or we knock it towards) their sweeper. I have yet to see us effectively cover the +1 through the middle. This scenario also plays out in ball ups/stoppages around the ground at times (but not all the time, sometimes we manage the +1 or +2 and win the contests around the ground, but not very often and less so through the center bounce). Usually we just don't match up effectively at stoppages and lose the numbers game, often resulting in first clean possession/clearance by the free man or men, and hence sometimes an easy score by the opposition as they run away from stoppage. I would suspect most of goals scored against us are from center bounce clearances, and turnovers in our back half.

The mental area that concerns me is our inability (seemingly) to convert the mind. To become the HUNTER.... and not the hunted.

We have done nothing in the last 7 seasons and now 2 matches, to warrant being the hunted, so i'm not sure why they appear (at least from what i can see) to be in that mode on game day.

Maybe some of them, with the usual exceptions like the Jones Boy, just couldn't give a damn and are happy to take their pay cheque each week?

One thing i know for sure, unless we somehow mentally switch on to become the HUNTER and Roos/Jones somehow bring out the animal aggression in this mob, this team will remain at or near rock bottom.

P.S. IMO we also lack one more extractor in the stoppages to assist Jones, Cross and Vince on the rotations. Hopefully Viney can become the 4th man here. And to pull off a Geelong fast break overlap style of attack we're going to need some decent toe and passing by foot in this team. Hopefully the changes this week will help a little in that regard. Once we're playing this overlap style effectively and for approx 80% or so of game time, instead of possession style from last 2 weeks for about 80% of game time and we get a Hogan and Dawes into the mix, i believe we will start to show some major improvement on the scoreboard and might even win the odd match against lessor opponents. Maybe even one or 2 surprises later in the season against the odd middle rung team.

I will add to my training report and in saying i agree with deeZee thats its in the head.

How about we get a training report that says we saw the intensity of a match applied during training.

So what if we get more injuries due to hard contact, we seem to be getting them anyway.

I recall reading of comments from players trying to break into Hawthorn sides years ago that they were regularly ironed out at training by an incumbent determined to hold their spot in the team against an obvious challenger.

Execute skills at training under pressure and you are more likely to execute them under pressure in a match.

I hope Roosy is working on that head space.

There was a full hit out scratch match for over an hour at training today DP so your wish might be coming true.

Lots of first round draft picks don't make it wyl

We just seem to have the happy nack of picking a higher percentage than most.

Also we have had very few seasoned players to support the kids.

When we started flinging seasoned players at the end 2007 and replacing them with kids we started down a track that has lead

Directly to the disaster that is our list.

OD i noticed that a "MACCA" has liked your post....purely coincidence i'm sure

I think the best method to break this is to speak with the ghost of Norm himself and ask him if it's true and if so how we can lift it.

Who ya gonna call??? .....

Guys this is very sketchy and light on as i was on the job, but there's plenty of time to peek when in heavy traffic.

From what i could make out....

Training started early for a smaller group around 10ish. My understanding it was those involved in the clearance work at the center bounce as there was ball up ruck/tapping drills (positional work?) going on with a group in the middle. One player involved in the rucking side had heavy knee or thigh padding on. Couldn't make him out but looked too slim for Pencil. Tom McDonald lol?

About 10.30ish i noticed some regular kicking/passing drills happening with all players involved including the outs, Toump, Michie and Trengove.

On my last trip, about 11ish, there was definitely a scratch match on. Seemed like a full hit out and lasted till about 12.15ish or 12.30

Sorry for the lack of details, and the exact times are very loose, but that's as good as i could see from where i was.

Watts forward? He can't even win a one on one contest against a mid at ground level, how the hell will he do it against a bigger defender in the air

Turn it up Cards,

he'll be so worried about a clip from behind he'll be 10 metres in front of any opponent, on the lead for the easy chest mark!!

Oh shyte...hang on

I'd like to like this more than once

I don't look at them but hey, might be my only 2 for the year BZ ... cheers!

I am a little concerned hearing this. I thought Roos was big on not spraying players directly after the game as that, in his words, is the time relationships can be permanently broken.

I would only be concerned if we had a person at the helm without runs on the board. While i understand some players might be carrying scars from recent sagas they are also getting paid well to play at AFL level and some of them paid very handsomely.

As long as you don't hold a grudge with any one player afterwards and make it clear that the non-negotiables apply to everyone, and move on and be professional in your application thereafter. I believe Roos is more than capable of doing that and mending any nose joints as the weeks roll around. I also believe him and team are capable of sorting out the wheat from the chaff and filling the gaping holes over the next few draft periods.

But it will probably take more than a 2 year commitment for the players to understand and respect that Roos isn't just another MFC fly-by-nighter either and he really is here for a decent period before any handover. 2 years is probably not quite long enough to convince every player to get on board the Roos train IMO (see Frawley).

PJ needs to get at least one more year out of Roosy, and quickly.

Here is a chance for Jonesy to stamp his authority on the group.

In the last couple of years, due to no fault of their own, Grimesy and Trenners couldn't confront those not pulling their weight. Why? Because, Trenners was still working to establish himself as a player and Grimes was injured a lot of the time (most of last year as a matter of fact). They couldn't criticize because one wasn't in form and one had struggled to get on the paddock.

Nate? How could anyone at the club say that he isn't in a position to critique some of his teammates? With two straight B&F's and being our best player the last two weeks, no one would dare to question his contribution to the team. He is pulling his weight.

Excellent point Colin. Our leader's stepping up and it would seem Roos has provided him that voice.

My hope is that this is our Geelong "2006" line in the sand year. Enough is enough.

I reckon time has proven you correct Scoop.

But in saying that I think it's naive blaiming all our woes on Neeld (not saying you are but it is used a lot). As I stated earlier the MFC has been it's own worst enemy and i don't know what reputations the players have been dreaming of that they have....

I firmly believe Roos is our man - it's pretty obvious it's not going to happen overnight (which does sadden me it's been bloody disappointing so far 2014) but I agree with you about actually having faith in the Roos direction over Neeld

I liked Neeld only because I thought he'd eventually toughen up this squad - he failled and only fractured the group further. I heard Dermie say he heard Roos gave the players the biggest and most direct spray he reckons the MFC players have ever heard after the WCE game - will be interesting to see what happens

Roosy has the runs on the board so if they don't take that on board we're f'd again........

UH if Dermy's rumour is on the money and there's a good chance it was, i can only hope that Roos follows through with actions and not just words.

If so, it won't be the club that's f'd .... it will be those players who are unable, or unwilling to follow Roosy's non-negotiables.

Exactly. This is what we did different under Bailey. We died by the sword rather than dying like a whimpering dog scared of it's tail.

We were horrendous defensively, but at least when we had the ball we had a crack...

This is on the money

We tend to go for the out wide easy options when trying to move the ball forward and more often than not do not even look forward or lower eyes as first option when we gain possession. Most players choose the easiest pass off by hand or foot generally sideways or backwards.

Classic example was Frawley running through the middle towards the City end y'day. Had a paddock in front of him coming through the front of square and no pressure whatsoever.

Could have bounced and drawn opponent in front then try and spot up the loose man or kick to the danger spot top of square. Instead he runs without bouncing not wanting to risk taking on an oncoming player in front, spots the low percentage lead from Watts to the 50 meter arc near the boundary and kicks it to him. Crazy thing was, Watts didn't want the responsibility of a shot at goal (or thought he was too far out) or attempted spot up pass from there either. Frawley had so much time and space, Watts then kicked the ball straight back to him. I have a feeling we turned it over at that point and the Coasters fast breaked it over our heads for a goal. I could be wrong here as i saw so many of those plays yesterday from our turnovers.

That piece of play summed up our "Save My Skin" way atm by most players IMO, with few exceptions (the usual like Jones boy, Dunn, but also some newbies to our club yesterday like Mr Bean, Cross and youngster Terlich and in patches Bail).

No doubt having a tall genuine forward (or 2 if we got lucky lol) might straighten us up somewhat, but i still think we play "SMS" panick footy far too often and take the easiest, but quite often the worst, option when moving the ball. This occurs pretty much everywhere on the park at this point and once one or 2 players start to do this it becomes contagious. The SMS "no risk - no responsibility" attitude by most players and a generally slow/timid mid field & half back line which refuses to take opponents on with run and carry overlap football (probably because many can't or know they are just too slow across the park) is slowly killing this football club.

We need a severe injection of toe and players that will run and carry and take risks moving the ball forward quickly. And if the SMS style can't be trained out of the main culprits, then they need to be weeded out of the team before it kills the club forever.

I think the more important question is who is AFL "Ready" right now? (and likely to play more than a handful of games this year even if injured)

In other words, based on their history, who gives us complete confidence and certainty that they will be up to playing the game at a level required to match it with at least middle of the rung teams NOW? Who can we put on the park and know they'll be able to compete and give us a decent contest regardless of who they're up against from week to week and at least see us in the game for most of a match with a chance of winning?

I'll give it a stab....

• Nathan Jones
• Dawes*
• Frawley
• Dunn
• Garland
• Vince
• Howe
• Terlich

*Assuming he returns this year and plays more than a handful of games.

The rest are either; fringe players trying to find there way in the game, rookies or players who haven't truly convinced that they have made it yet ie., the jury is out. The only other player i had a question mark over as i haven't seen enough of him yet was Cross.

Excluding Cross, that's only 8 players from 22 that are put on the park each week who we could rely upon to give us a decent AFL standard contest. That's just over one third of the team. No wonder we're getting smashed against quality opposition and most teams find us a fairly easy pushover.

We need to find (either from current list or outside) approx 12 to 14 players from here on in just to be competitive against mediocre teams. And that's assuming we can keep the above (Frawley, other?) beyond this year.

Roos and Co. have a HUGE job ahead of them and we are at least 2 more drafts from putting together a reasonably competitive AFL unit.

Viney, blease, Kent, Evans,salem and any talls please.

I would add Jetta, Barry and Clisby into that mix as well. And regarding talls it's Gawn or bust for mine. The others just aren't up to it at this level. I'm not even sure Gawn is but i'm hopeful. Max King is too early obviously. Fitzpatrick is seasons at Casey from being a possible AFL footballer at this point. I wish him luck though.

It's time to look outside Grimes, Trengove, Pederson and Watts (and i say Watts as he just refuses to man up when he doesn't have the ball nor tackle, contest or hit a pack hard from behind when the opportunity is there) and anyone who can't catch a slow moving Ferry and who continually turn the ball over in their 5th season or greater.

When we introduce some speed with AFL standard decision making/disposal, accountability across all lines when we don't have the ball and a Geelong style "fast break overlap" game 80% of the time (see JHK goal / passage of play for example) we will start winning games against some teams in the AFL.

Continuing to persist with slow plodders/thinkers/disposers and an 80% possession style of game, similar to that we played today, will only see us 0-22 at seasons end and going backwards at a steady rate of knots and the club more than likely being bailed out in perpetuity by the AFL.