speed demon

If we delist/trade around 6 players, another 6 of similar value will remain... A significant overhaul of the list is required. Given our excellent hand in the draft, and therefore strong trading position, this is the year to do it. Next year, with one first rounder and no f/s, we won't get the same value from turning over players (ie the differential between the value of players in and value of players out will be less). So be aggressive Dees!

Alternatively, Cloke's mercenary attitude may mean he stays at the Pies but, by doing so at such a high price, hurts his club and team mates by pushing other player/s out

I think Boak is at least equivalent to Jones and I wouldn't trade Jones for pick 12. Yet pick 12 (possibly plus peripheral sweeteners) may be sufficient given the weaker trading positions of other clubs. So for me, Boak is a very good value target.

After 3.5 years of being unable to consolidate his place in the team and being subject to hyperintense scrutiny, he has finally found a role that suits him and he is excelling. Let him stay there and focus on establishing himself as one of our best and most consistent players. I wouldn't consider moving him forward until he was so full of confidence he saw the game as his to dominate. Only then, I suspect, would he play a key forward role with the aggression required.

Generally agree with Old55. Frawley, McDonald, Sellar/Martin, Garland, Watts is a good mix of talls. My main concern is ball use. The kicking skills of our KP defenders are ordinary. Thus, Watts has been a welcome inclusion into defence and Rivers a welcome exclusion (especially as his set shot kicking seems better than his field kicking). Whoever fills the other defensive roles needs pace and good kicking skills. Looking forward to seeing what Strauss offers and if Blease can learn some accountability.

I wonder if it might have been more a matter of the players actually executing the gameplan (ie I doubt the gameplan ever was to have 18 players inside the opposition forward 50m and only kick to the boundary)

I disagree with the first part. The scaffold of a persons character is often all there at 18, it just develops further. I think back to when I was that age and we all knew who were mentally hard and going to succeed. A decade or so on and nothing's changed. Mental hardness is there to see at 18 and we should be looking for it as a prerequisite and not be seduced by 'silky skills' or physical attributes.

...the MFC version of Tony Shaw's marathon running career

I was pretty disinterested in the fabricated soulless McFootyClub, but with all the drama surrounding Scully, McDonald, Viney etc, the oldest and newest teams are creating a rivalry and I'm now very interested in seeing them fail.

If Nic Nat was at MFC, half the posters on 'land would have a Nic Nat related avatar and the other half would bemoan our recruiting ("Watts is going to be a star at WC..)

That's a high risk plan for a player we want. How do we guarantee the trade? In 2 years Jack won't be a free agent and we (hopefully) won't have the first pick in the draft.

Most clubs have around 5 ruckmen on their lists. Though often 2 or 3 are relatively unknown because they live in the VFL, like most opposition supporters would know little of Spencer, Fitzy and Gawn. Those last three are all still speculative IMO and I don't like Clark or Sellar in the ruck (for different reasons). Martin had his best season last year, and has been injured this year. I'm interested to see if he can fit in with team balance and Neeld's game style. I think we're lacking a back up to Jamar who can at least compete in the ruck and be useful around the ground and Martin's more likely than anyone in the middle term.

Thanks JCC. I haven't seen the stats in the papers. I've searched online and the best I could find was an article on this topic from 2011: http://www.playerrater.com.au/news/statisticalanalysis Last season Jamar ranked number 1 for hit outs to advantage (41.4%). If his proportion of effective hit outs this year is lower, I agree with RR it is probably is more to do with the midfielders around him and how they are being coached (ie their set up positions at stoppages).

Does anyone know where to find stats on effective hitouts? I've been wanting to see how Jamar compares with other rucks in this regard. My impression is we are not reaping the benefit of all the hitouts he is accredited with (ie first in AFL).

Ofcourse I don't 'know' JT is injured, I just suspect it. Like opposition doctors probably suspect it but don't 'know'. The point being if JT was injured it would be a poor tactic to confirm opposition suspicions about our players fitness.

I don't agree with the arguement that the club definitely wouldn't play him if he was injured. Clubs play injured players all the time, particularly if they determine that playing won't exacerbate the injury. Ball played with OP when at St Kilda and Judd played with an adductor injury in his last season at WC are two pertinent examples. Furthermore, OP and adductor tendonopathies can take months to years to resolve completely, so it would mean a long time out of footy. IF he was playing injured, I doubt the club would broadcast this intelligence to the football world. Firstly, it's questionable whether it would release the pressure on Jack for underperforming, more likely it would invite the medical opinion of every armchair expert about whether he should be playing. Secondly, it confirms what the opposition probably suspect and allows them to plan to exploit his weaknesses.

I can't see Cloke leaving. A respected player at a rock solid club whose premiership window is wide open. The only motivation could be financial, and I don't see the difference between $850,000/yr and $1million/yr as being much of an incentive. I think the situation with Ablett and Scully was different. For Ablett, in addition to the $, GC presented the opportunity to prove himself in a weak team and lead them to success. For Scully, it was $6million for an unproven player with a chronic knee injury at a dysfunctional club. However, I would still pursue him. A forward of his quality is more scarce than premiership quality midfielders. We are more likely to be able to draft/trade/develop the midfield we need than we are a player of Cloke's ability.

For his service over the years, he's over qualified for village idiot

Interesting to note his sister (Jessica) has been selected to run in the marathon at the London Olympics. Jack is playing like he ran a marathon the day before.

Carey's analysis is plausible and, if you had only seen Trengove play one game this year, perhaps the most likely explanation for Trengove's poor form. However, the burden of increased pressure doesn't explain Trengove's diminished running ability, and that has been evident for weeks. I think the primary issue is he's carrying an injury.

Ofcourse the MFC should consider it but, at this point, I hope we keep Bailey. If Collingwood win this year Malthouse will have consolidated his reputation as a coaching great with dynasties at two clubs in different eras. Into his 60's will he still have the hunger to chase a third? Thus far I am satisfied with Bailey. He has vision and the ability to sell it to the Club. He also has the focus and managerial skills to execute his plans. He has steered us from worst team of the decade to a team on the fringe of the top 8. If progress this season continues to follow the current trajectory I would like to see him offered two years and see if he has the ability to lead us to the the top 4.

So Roos thinks Jones is underrated and plays his best tagger on him. Interesting coincidence that the biggest loss of Roos' career came against the Dees... I respect Jones a lot, for the same reasons many other posters have noted. However, if he doesn't improve further and others improve as expected his position is clearly threatened. He seems to have a good attitude so I don't put it past him to raise his game to the next level, as he did towards the end of the Lions game. Better and faster decision making under pressure would be a priority.

Just wiped my lunch off the monitor

I think it will depend on injuries and his own attitude. In regards to the latter the quality of coaching and support from his team mates, particularly the "brothers", will be very important. Credit to Jurrah and the coaches that he played a smarter, more disciplined and team orientated game against the Lions.

Hurley is more likely to be the better player but Watts has more potential. I bought into the intrigue of Watts on Queen's Birthday 2009 when a skinny, awkward kid ran onto the field and was immediately crunched by three Magpies. I wouldn't trade him for Hurley. Though if I was a Bomber supporter I wouldn't trade Hurley for Watts. If we had drafted Hurley I probably would've spent a lot less time on Demonland.