binman

Elite kicking skills are soooooo overrated.

Source?

This pure angst gold. You have out done yourself this time on the bag everything dees related scale TGR. Brilliant stuff. To parlay a barley formed rumour about Clarkson looking at properties in Perth into an opportunity to bag the dees is next level wrist slashing genius. I am seriously impressed. The other negative nellies on this site should bow before your angsty greatness.

So you're saying we should consider taking the punt on Harley....

Richmond got rance with a priority pick. I had completely forgotten that. Good get.

How about Masten on one wing and ANB on the other? You'd love it dazzler

I reckon he is pretty good kick actually. His issue is that so often he holds the ball up and does not release straight away

Agree that he us exactly the sort of player we need. Close to the best kick in the league and a beautiful mover. Silk. But surely getting Tomlinson won't impact our chances of getting Whitfield. Won't cost us a draft pick and not too much salary space.

Perhaps a compensation pick like they give out for free agents. After all we did the AFL a big favor.

Just the alice game is perfect. Make it against Freo every year. More winnable and less support than crows.

Getting Tomlinson and Elliot as free agents and so not having to give up any picks would be massive. Both are in the right age range too. And both have finals experience.

Where this from dazzler?

Gives me the opportunity to have the last word then (so i'll make it count). Firstly, it is a given that it is my opinion that that selecting Tyson as part of that deal was a mistake, not a fact. It would get tiresome if every time someone posted a comment on DL they prefaced with it 'in my opinion'. Secondly YOUR opinion is that i am factually incorrect to say 'more in the type of player he is - a contested, inside player with average foot skills. A type we have a surfeit of. We needed silk and we got whatever the opposite is' You go on to to say your opinion is based not on hindsight but on the facts at the time the decisions were made and that the criticism of Roos based on that comment are unfounded. Well i'm sorry, but in MY opinion you are wrong and the facts do not support your argument. In 2013, when Roos decided to split pick 2 and give up the opportunity to get Kelly, Billings or the Bont (a decision i stress that i supported at the time and in the following years) we had the following players on our list who could be fairly described as a contested, inside player with average foot skills. Nathan Jones Jimmy Toumpas Jack Grimes Jack Viney Jack Trengove Jordie McKenzie Luke Tapscott Matt Jones To that list Roos decided to add two more contested, inside players with average foot skills: Dom Tyson Viv Michie That's 10 contested, inside player with average foot skills. We can argue about the word surfeit but in my opinion that is too many and created a list imbalance that persists to this day (and i fully agree that Goodwin has done nothing to address this issue. Nor did Roos for that matter, doubling down in the following draft and trading periods). This is why so desperately need a player like Brad Hill now. In that draft Roos (well his recruiting team) also added: Bernie Vince (great foot skills, but an inside player and slow) Jayden Hunt (an outside player, with speed but poor foot skills) Jay Kennedy Harris (an outside player with average foot skills) Christian Salem (an inside player, with elite foot skills but slow) Looking at the list we started 2014 with (thanks Demonwiki - what a magnificent website, a treasure) - the first year of the Roos era- we only had the following three players i would describe as 'silk' ie outside players, who can cover ground with elite foot skills (i don't count Hogan in this category): Jack Watts Dom Barry (5 games) James Strauss (0 games) And to top that off in terms of elite kicks you could only add Shannon Brynes, Salem and Jetta. Meaning on list of 52 players we only had 6 elite kick and only two of them played more than 6 games. The other relevant issue about the decision to not go to the draft with pick 2 was that you rightly say the deal also involved us giving up pick 20. We could have used both picks 2 and 20 to address our lack of silk. Two could have got us Kelly. And pick 20 could have got us Jarmen Impey (who went at pick 21).

You make some good points LH. As i said i supported the decision to split pick two at the time and for several years afterwards. I'm not critical of the decision - as i said i saw the logic to bring in a couple of quality players given where we were at. But i am also firmly of the view that with the benefit of hindsight it was the wrong call. You're right about the Bont - in hindsight we should have drafted him (though i think Kelly will end his career the equal of Bont). However, i wish you would stop misrepresenting my views. I did not say - and have not said - the recruiting under Roos was poor, so i i completely refute your claims that i am pushing a narrative that it was. In the post you quoted i agreed with the view that under Roos recruiting was 'not disastrous, but far from amazing'. Again, hardly a severe criticism of Roos. At the risk of misrepresenting your views you appear very sensitive about any criticisms of Roos, even measured non controversial criticism.

An e?

I agree. Not disastrous, but far from amazing sums it up perfectly. I supported the decision to split pick 3 at the time as i saw the logic to bring in a couple of quality players given where we were at. Hindsight is wonderful thing but even so history says the club pulled the wrong rein in not taking Kelly (as i posted elsewhere, the 'we would have taken Billings' palaver is a complete furphy - taking Billings over Kelly would have been the wrong move so not sure how that helps the argument. And besides Billings is a good player). But the real mistake in that trade was getting Tyson. Not so much in terms of his ability (though his many critics have been been somewhat vindicated given we traded him for not much and he can't get game av the Roos), more in the type of player is he is - a contested, inside player with average foot skills. A type we have a surfeit of. We needed silk and we got whatever the opposite is. The type of player we recruited under roos (and continued to recruit under goody) has created a problem for us. Which is why i get a little annoyed at Roos distancing himself from where we are at.

I'm living in the now (with my now being 12 months)

He was still stoned?

At the risk of a strange mixed metaphor, the Hawks are our bunny.

I'd be more than happy for Frosty to stay. Improved a great deal this year. I'll grant you he is quick and that is his major asset. I reckon May is surprisingly quick but be that as it may (pardon the pun) speed is useful but not vital as a defender. An ability to read the play, read the flight of the ball, defend on on one and reliably hit targets are more important strengths. Unfortunately Frosty is not particularly good at any of these skills.

How did you think roos went with recruiting when he was coach?

Agree. Assuming you mean he is pretending to be an elite AFL player who is arguably the best kick in the league and moves like a panther.

Sure why not. Coz that's how professional recruiting teams roll.

You really think Frost has an upside with a bullet? He may have some incremental improvement left (eg he might improve his kicking a bit) but he has well and truly reached his ceiling Inside info? He's 26 or some such and has been in the system for 7-8 years. Its not as if he has been hiding under a bushell.

Yes x a million. If i was to choose one player in the league to come to the dees it would be a toss up between Gaff and Kelly