binman

Not unfair at all. Reasonable comments. More goals and more damaging possessions will both combine to take to him to the very elite level, where we all expect him to get to. At that the very elite level the best players really hurt opposition teams. And regularly change the trajectory of a match. True match winners. The most obvious example is dusty. Trac is getting there. I think it is fair to suggest true mids have less opportunity to turn matches. And their accumulated numbers are less flash, but very important. But the best still find a way to do something special when needed. Neale is the benchmark. High numbers and high hurt factor. And an ability to be clutch when needed. Like in their first final. No possessions in the first quarter. Worked his way into in rhe second. And then kicked a clutch set shot goal from the edge of his distance range that changed the momentum of the game.

With all due respect this post, like many of your 500 odd posts since you started posting on Demonland, is obtuse and reflects what appears to be yet another deliberate attempt to foment dissent and wind people up - a behavior consistent with someone trolling. And like a very high number of your posts your critique of other posters is remarkably hypocritical - which as i gather is a favorite trope of trolls. To be clear i am not accusing you of trolling, just pointing out some of your behavior is consistent with a troll. Only you know if you are in fact trolling. Be that as it may this post is just plain rubbish. For you to suggest the tone on this site should be more respectful is hypocrisy in the extreme given the approach to posting you have decided to take since joining this community. This thread would not exist if not for that decision. I have been posting on Demonland for about 10 year. I don't get bothered by posters who decide to take the approach you have, though i fully understand why others do. As result I tend to not people on ignore. I just try to avoid reading their posts or engaging is discussion. That said i do have an exclusive club of binman ignorees. Long term and newer posters would recognise some of the esteemed twenty four members (though i suspect there are some double ups ie posters who have come back under a different name) of this club - Tonotopia, Roost it, mjt, middy malt and Curry & Beer. Welcome to the club Half Forward Flank. No correspondence will be entered into.

Thanks Andy. Good timing too given the off season is my favorite time of year - hope springs eternal, all new recruits are guns and we are training the house down. Just one quibble. I will struggle to avoid political, religious or ideological views in my discussion of footy as all human communal activity is political in nature, footy is my religion and game plan is ideology.

On Jackson i reckon with brown and weed in the team he will play almost a half forward utility role, such is his athleticism and ability below his knees. Get up and down the ground the way Hogan - and tmac in 2018 - did. Be a marking option when exiting our back half and of course still be an aerial threat up forward. He has unique attributes and of course he will do some rucking but I can also see him playing as a mid at times with Max rucking. He is something special. Really looking to seeing him after his first full preseason, with some space at the g and proper length quarters.

Fair enough. I know then not to bother engaging in a discussion about football with you then. Though to be honest you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to make sense of my questions.

What on earth are you talking about? Brown is lightly built? He is taller and heavier than lynch. Riddle me this - after winning a flag in 2017 without a big key forward why did they then go after and land lynch, a big key forward who instantly became their highest paid player? Another question. Giiven how critical big key marking defenders of the ilk of mcgovern, may and vlaustin ate in modern footy who do you think are best placed to negate their influence? Mid size forwards like say hannan? One more question, related to the second. Geelong best big key marking defender one of the best in tbe AFL was arguably the best player on the ground in tbe first half. But was unsighted in the second half. Which forward do you think was most responsible for that, and in particular stopping him marking? Again, going to Hannibal's point about players doing a job and playing their role, perhaps to your surprised lynch metrics and kpis were unlikely be goals kicked, or even marks taken. His kpi is no doubt halving contests and making sure the ball hits rhe ground where his smaller teamates can do damage. Which they did. And as a result won a grand final

Yep. The need for players to play their role, something players reference all the the time, has never been greater. Makes it hard to assess performance in some instances. This is true of both the mid range players and the best. For example most fans including me thought Oliver had a better second half of the season than the first. But the bluey numbers don't reflect that (or perhaps his rumoured robust exit interview). Maybe that is related to role? I agree the big issue for the dees is not the top 12 players, it is the next 28

Good post. I'm a bit in the boat of not having a great grasp of opposition players. Hard to if you don't watch them regularly. I have watched more non dees games this year than I ever have (last few seasons I pretty much only watched dees games). And in doing so it is a good reminder that the pool is pretty shallow and players i might have think have a particular skill set, say elite kicking (something i look for) make their fair share of errors. Saad and Williams are two good examples. The related thing that annoys me is complaints about over paying for players we need, at least for mid range players, like hibbetd or tomlinson. Bottom line if a club does not draft and develop the right mix of players it is st the mercy of tbe market. But from a market perspective Brown is a no brainer. We need a decent big forward. And can get one for a decent price. Where's the issue. On polec he too is a bargain but to be honest whilst I like his skills he is one of those players I haven't watched enough to make a judgement. Cant imagine goody would like a player who was not picked because of his defensive efforts, but we need skill because of the stupid decision to focus so much on contested ball winners so hw might be worth the gamble m given the low cost. On Brown it is ironic we need a big forward and we are looking to trade tmac. For the life of me given his weight and lack of mobility this season, why they didn't plsy tmac out of the square. But be that as it may Hannibal, your assertion in 2017 that tmac was no forward (which I argued against then) has been proven to be correct. Yes he kicked goals in 2018 but that was with Hogan in the team and in large part a function of his mobility and our quick transition. But he has never looked a natural forward and has little forward craft. Unlike Brown who looks every inch a natural forward.

Ti get to the next level he needs to kick more goals. And step up and kick some clutch ones.

We are in our premiership windows. Top 4 should be the expectation next year. And I'm confident we can meet it.

Plenty of times I've been in the same room as someone but in a different state.

Honestly don't understand the palaver. Sounds completely believable he is frustrated. Have little doubt its true. And would hardly be shocked if he wants out if we dont make tge finals next year.

Midfielders collectively win premierships. Players like dusty and trac win grand finals. If the club had no choice but to trade on of Oliver or trac who do you think they would trade?

I guess it depends on how you are defining 'best''. Schwarz was the best player i have seen at the dees outside of Flower, prior to his firsts knee injury. The only player to come close is Trac this year. So i would have Schwarz at the top of my list of bets platers at the dees in the last 33 years. And even after his two knee injuries he was a star for us. And incredibly consistent. Barely played a poor game. Easy to forget he won the bluey in 1999 in a bloody goody team. Don't get me wrong i agree Oliver is a star but personally i have Stynes, Nieta and max ahead of Oliver too and to be honest also, after this year Tracc too. That was the best season of football from a dees player since Nieta's in 1995.

Better than Schwarz?

The best player in the last 33 years at the dees? That's a big call.

A big yes from me

For those of us interested in game plans, tactics and all that jazz a couple of really interesting articles about the teams fighting out the finals this weekend. Both have relevance for us though too in terms of where we need to get to and how we might do so: Another excellent article from Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-15/tigers-cats-lions-power-afl-preliminary-finals-premiership-gabba/12764676 And one from Scott Heindrvih, who has written some terrific stuff about the AFL this year: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/15/modern-day-coaches-win-hearts-before-minds-in-bid-to-reach-afl-grand-final EO this article has some relevance to the quote (and article) you reference above: "Players become familiar with a manager so his words lose their power; an intensity that once was motivational begins to grate; opponents work sides out – and in the age of detailed data analysis that is a process that has accelerated significantly." Personally i think this is a huge challenge for Goody and i really wonder if he is where Hardwick was in 2016 and Hinkley last year in terms of struggling to get a message across and being too insular and hard.

Yep. Simply does nor get enough of rhe ball. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he was averaging a couple of goals a game. But gets not.

Each club would be different, but as general rule no. That said i think goody made it clear with jack it was his call. And i suspect a driver was him making a statement about his minimum standards, the sort of players he wanted in his team - hard at it, uncompromising players who never shirked a contest - and the culute he wanted to build at the club. And as i said at the time i totally respect goody's call. Don't agree with it, but respect his right to make it. And i fully get the argument then and now why it was the right call. On a related note i find it hard to square the decision to trade jack on cultural grounds with the decision to not only continue to select Melksham this season but have him be a stand in captain in the crows game. Barely laid a tackle all season, shirked contests all season (can barely recall one hard at contest and certainly can think of at least 5 where he pulled out) and showed zero on field leadership.

At the risk of going over old ground, i disagreed with the goody's decision to trade jack and even with the benefit of hindsight i still think it was a mistake. The gist of my argument was (and remains): We were (and remain) a woeful kicking side, at a point in time where it has never been more critical and he was by far out best user of the football (and still would be) Makes zero sense to trade a player that helps address our biggest weakness - our appalling kicking Jack was by far our best 'assist' and last kick inside 50 player , so again it makes zero sense to trade a player that plays such an important role in the team - it is no coincidence that since he left we have ongoing 'connection' issues with our forwards The idea that was oft floated at the time that fritter adequately addressed the issues noted above was a furphy - we still could have drafted fritter and and had two decent kicks in our forward line (though it has become apparent fritter aint in Jack's class when it comes to kicking) Sure jack was not never as physically committed to the contest as he could/should have been and sure he had a reputation as bit of a party boy but every great team has such players Every great coach finds a way to get the best out of super skilled, but perhaps not 100% committed players, when required - it is no coincidence Jack's best season at the dees came under Roos, a coach famous for his ability to harness the talent of different cats You don't need a team full of jack viney's, myopic, driven players who want to run though walls - and history has shown that goody's desire to build such a team has put us well behind the eight ball And i question how strong a teams culture really is if it can't manage to incorporate players with different approaches and mindsets In any case Jack was by all accounts a pretty good trainer and barely missed any game though injury, which suggests he looked after himself pretty well and had the required professionalism (questions over his 2017 rehab notwithstanding) Jack was a heart and soul player and his team mates loved him as did most fans - beware unintended consequences trading such players All that said I fully acknowledge i have no idea what was happening behind the scenes or the factors that drove goody's decision (though I'll hasten to add most others don't either, despite all the gossip and assumed knowledge) and i fully respect his decision, as evidenced by the fact i have not banged on about it (much) since or bagged goody for it Leaving aside all of the above my response 'not in my opinion' was only in part about the merits of the decision to trade jack. It was as much about the flawed logic, in my view, of the idea his time at Port is proof we made the right call. The fact is we will never know what might have happened if Goody had stuck with Jack. Who knows he may have found a way of getting the best out of jack, just as his mentor, Roos, had. After all the best coaches get the best out of their players. And it is worth noting that jack was playing some pretty good footy in 2019 under Hinkley off the half back line (including a terrific game that helped bury our 2019 season) before his terrible injury. By the by same applies to Hoges - another player who was apparently a party boy and was accused of being bad for the culture (and another player who I'd love to be still at the dees as, like jack, he has a skill set we are in desperate need of). His travails at freo are not proof we made the right call to get rid of him.

Not in my opinion.

Omg - now you are just baiting me! Ok I'll bite. NEED AN IRONY EMOJI !!!!

Need irony emoji

I was ambivalent about yze coming. Now that he is i think it is fantastic. I can feel my dormant pollyana syndrome rising. Looking forward to the articles crediting yze with our top 4 finish.