binman

I remember reading last year that he was super keen to remain a forward and saw himself as a career forward

I had to check the article to make sure the quote was referring specifically to including 'an experienced football administrator'. It is. The quote is from AFL Coaches Association chief executive Alistair Nicholson, who inadvertently highlights a couple of key issues. Firstly, a football administrator, experienced or otherwise, does not necessarily have 'deep experience in managing the wellbeing of players'. Sure, the well being of players would be a priority for any football administrator, but the welfare of players is not the key focus of a football administrators role, and therefore few would have 'deep experience' in that space. Case in point - wasn't Burt an experienced football administrator? Who does have 'deep experience in managing the wellbeing of players', not to mention the requisite training (hopefully)? Experienced specialist welfare officers working at AFL clubs. Surely that is who Alistair Nicholson should be recommending be on the panel. Which goes to the second issue. Where was the welfare officer involvement in the cases highlighted in the ABC article?

Some random thoughts about this situation, now that the initial shock has subsided. The focus on Clarkson and Fagan is unfortunate as it obscures the real issues - cultural safety and systemic racism As an example of cultural safety, Hodge seemed to suggest getting advice from the club about cutting ties to girlfriends and or perceived bad influences was standard operating procedure when he came to the club. Some might say that is evidence of it not being racist to do the same for Aboriginal players, but that ignores the completely different cultural context for Aboriginal and non Aboriginal players and the inter generational trauma Aboriginal people experience as result of colonialization, genocide (ie efforts to wipe out Aboriginal people), forced removal from their land and forced separation of family (and any number of other issues, such as systemic poverty) Bottom line, it hard to imagine a scenario where having ANY conversation with an Aboriginal player that is any way suggesting disconnecting from family would be culturally appropriate and safe (which, to be clear, is not to say that welfare concerns cannot be addressed with Aboriginal players - they just have be done in a culturally safe way) The Crows camp fiasco is another example of what happens when there is a complete lack of cultural competence This thread is a good example of the broader discussion on this topic - the focus on Clarkson and Fagan has meant the discussion has mostly been about the specific 'accusations' leveled against them, and the fairness or otherwise of how those accusations were leveled and concepts such as right of reply and natural justice The focus on Clarkson and Fagan is understandable as it is newsworthy and has implications for the AFL - it is the reason the ABC report highlighted their involvement But as i say, the focus on them obscures the real issue - cultural safety and systemic racism Was the focus on Clarkson and Fagan by the ABC fair? No, not really - but it is standard media stuff, as was releasing it in GF week for maximum impact (and thanks to 15 plus years of having to battle and scrape to justify its existence, ABC have just as much pressure on them as any media outlet to generate clicks) The report and the ABC reporting have been conflated - as has been noted by several posters the TOR of the report was to interview Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island hawks players about their experience at the club and document the feedback The Hawks have obviously read the report and determined an investigation is required and wisely handballed it to the AFL The ABC article was, as i understand it, was not a rehash of the leaked report - there is no evidence the report was leaked The ABC interviewed players and families themselves - and given we are talking about small pool of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island hawks players in the timeframe of the report there was always going to be a cross over One assumes the ABC did all the legal checks and approvals before publishing; and if so it is hard to see what recourse Clarkson and Pagan have in terms of potential defamation claims (the ABC were reporting information they believed to be correct, which as i understand it is a good start to a defamation defense) I can't see how the Hawks or individual players could be exposed to defamation, given neither party publicized the accusations (the players spoke to a reporter, but the ABC reported and published those comments)

AFL grand final 2022: The Bart Cummings preparation that had the Geelong Cats trained to the minute (theage.com.au)

Great name for a goth speed metal band

He'll probably end up living in Glen Waverley, or is that Mount Waverley?

Yep. Things such as this don't happen in a vacuum

Just beat it Luke.

C'mon faulty, don't be that person. This issue is too serious for culture wars palaver. It just distracts from the issue at hand The tone of this thread has been measured and almost to a poster, people have qualified their views with variations of 'if true'. Leaving aside the polemics, if the allegations are true, what is your view on the situation (as opposed to your view on other's responses)?

Slander by who? The ABC?

Hardly. The players families represent more than word.

Not just them, but the club as well. If true, then any number of work place laws have likely been broken, not least the responsibility to ensure a safe working environment.

Gil McLachlan doing presser now. Streaming on the Age now 'On face value, it's hard to find more serious allegations'

And? How does that go to the issue of whether it is resolved or not? Again, the Hawks can choose to accept the finding of the report they commissioned and act accordingly. That's to say, resolve this as best they can. The three key people alleged to have behaved so horrifically are no longer at the club, so nothing direcly to resolve there from a Hawthorn perspective (ie they don't have to sack anyone). But i will be totally shocked if they don't make a serious and meaningful attempt to find a path to resolution with the players and their families. Even if you mean resolved in legal sense, i'm no lawyer but guilty people often deny wrong doing. Doesn't always stop them being found guilty By the by, you didn't initially ask if the authors of the report spoke to the alleged perpetrators. You asked who the authors of the report were. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but an implication one could could draw from that question is you are somehow questioning the professionalism of the report's authors and therefore their findings.

So you said. And i''ll repeat: What does that mean? Resolved in what sense - a legal sense? If resolved in the sense of the Hawks taking responsibility for their behaviour, choosing to accept the findings of a report they they themselves commissioned, and choosing to believe their ex players and partners, then that is wholly up to the Hawthorn Football Club. By the by, what the hell does independent witnesses mean? Independent of whom? And i'll add. what point are you trying to make about the authors of the review? What's your motivation for asking that question? By the by, one assumes it would be easy enough for you to answer your own question. Try google.

What does that mean? Resolved in what sense - a legal sense? If resolved in the sense of the Hawks taking responsibility for their behaviour, choosing to accept the findings of a report they they themselves commissioned, and choosing to believe their ex players and partners, then that is wholly up to the Hawthorn Football Club. By the by, what the hell does independent witnesses mean? Independent of whom?

I'm struggling to process this news If the allegations are true, and reading the ABC article it's hard not assume they are, this is beyond comprehension. Horrors like this sound like something that has come to light from the 1950s or 60s, and that collectively we all say that's horrific, thank god things have changed. But it is alleged to have happened in the last 15 years. I'm shocked. Again, if true, this is on another level all together to the bombers drug scandal. Both scenarios involve a complete breach of trust, but this is something else entirely.

Forgive my ignorance WJ, at the level your grandson is playing how demanding is it aerobically? And how much, if at all, has that aspect changed in say the last ten years?

Good get by the dogs to get Jones in, but they are still need a big defender i reckon. Tomlinson would be good fit. The blues might also look at him

Huge thanks to KC from Casey for all your intrepid reporting of our maggoos. Top shelf work - you must be thrilled with a flag!

During the VFL grand final, the commentators mentioned that Mitch Johnson (i think) had worked really hard to break into the Sharks side and that when he wasn't playing for the Sharks was playing for Pakenham (i think). They also discussed the fact Crossley was a carer and Munro was a paramedic. On the back of those comments, i had a number of reflections: That is a crazy level of commitment - all three players , but travelling to and from Gold Coast to vic to play footy is hard core There must be hundreds (thousands?) of players who are really close to AFL standard, but for whatever reason (choice, luck, not quite good enough etc) have not made the jump to that level Any elite sport is built on a foundation of community, amateur and semi pro participation - and AFL is no different However, unlime soccer or bball, AFL can only draw on a homegrown pool, with the exceptions of Irish imports, and that pool is necessarily thin given footy competes with rugby x 2, bball and soccer in terms of a pathway to playing a professional team sport in Oz Without that foundation, there is no AFL - at least not in the elite sense I know all of that is not news to anyone, but it occurred to me that i don't really have any sense how healthy suburban and country footy is. Demonland has lots of posters who are involved in some way in suburban and country footy, be that as a player, coach, admin - or just fans of a local club. My question to those who have an informed view is, how healthy is suburban and country football?

I wonder of Longmuire is a bit of an acquired taste. Reminds me a lot of goody in his early days of senior coaching. Bit of of a my way or the highway, super intense vibe.

From memory it was only just behind the ball, as i was watching the ball and still saw Smith go down. And yes, Matthews was behind Smith, such a dog act - on any player of course, but Smith was as fair a player as they day is long. It was a genius coaching move putting the much taller Smith on Matthews. Was thrashing him and Matthews, who was in the last part of his career, couldn't handle it. Iron or sew on?

I could not be more ambivalent about Grundy. But if he ends up at the dees then he'll have my 100% support.

Lobb is the answer, if we can land him. No superstar salary required. JVR will be our superstar.