binman

Interestingly, I think goody is making changes to our game plan, and some pretty significant ones at that. On the game against the pies, the loss was very hard to take. But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we although we lost, we played pretty bloody well. If the pies are a legitimate flag contender, which I'd didn't think they were, but do now, then so are we. We are seven weeks away from our optimal fitness levels. Perhaps the pies are close to their right now. We dominated the first half and should have put the game out of reach, then ran out of legs late. We got beaten by a goal, but on 'expected score' we win by three. If Brown marks on the wing with aprox 2 mins to go, we probalby win the game and the tone of the discussion is different.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. They lifted their pressure in the second half and were fantastic. But I think it was only the last 10 to 15 minutes of the game where we couldn't deal with their pressure. And it is that period where we were clearly fatigued. And that is why it is important, in my opinion to factor in things like loading and fitness levels into assessment of the game. Because otherwise, if looking for an explanation (not you, in the genetal sense) it can be easy to default to saying the reason we couldn’t handle their pressure was we mentally couldn't. Which perhaps is partially true. But they were stronger for longer. The million dollar question is whether the program will have us in the right shape to run out such games to the very end come finals. And we won't know till then.

We definitely handballed a lot in the last quarter as a result of their pressure, but it was clear high handball numbers was a strategy coming into the game. We smashed them in the first half. And was handling their pressure fine But from the get go we were handballing like crazy. I remembered seeing the handball numbers come up on the scoreboard at quarter and half time and being amazed how high we were. We had doubled their tally.

100% agree with the second para. Not sure about paras one or two You might be well right, but the jury is out i reckon. By that i mean, if we accept the goal is for us to be at peak physical readiness on prelim day (some 7 weeks away) then we have only been in the tapering phase for a couple of weeks and it stands to reason we are a ways of our physical peak right now. It's possible the pies are close to their peak as their loading program would not have had had them peaking on prelim day. So logic suggests they were likely to run out the game better than us, as proved to be the case. I watched the round 21 West Coast game from last season during the week, and i had forgotten how scrappy a game it was. It was wet and wild night, so that was factor, but our performance was not nearly as strong as i had remembered. Scores were basically level at half time, and for the first 10 mins of the third quarter and it was only 10 minute burst in the third where we got separation. When we the game was stopped for lightning we were on top, but after coming back they almost ran over the top of us. Now, that might have been becuase we put the cue in the rack, and we certainly did chip it around and look to take time out of the clock. But the fact remains they ran out the game better. So perhaps we weren't so far ahead of where we are now as it appears from the weekends game? Which makes it all the more weird that we never really looked to play tempo footy against the pies. We were the ones who drove the fast tempo in the first half - which was also weird given that i how the pies like to play. It was almost as if we decided we were going to get out to a unassailable lead by half time. Which to be honest, we bloody well should have. Perhaps if we had of played some tempo footy we might have had some fuel in the tank left in the last 10 minutes of the game.

Agree. Which is the risk of playing a defensive forward as it is by definition a role that isn't going to generate much scoring, so if you don't stop the defender intercepting you get little postive impact from the role.

Lots of talk about our forward line, but we scored enough to win, even with the ridiculous number of gilt edge opportunities we burnt. But as you say, our defence was the real problem. They were clever how tbey spread our talls, and they moved it quickly - though not crazy quickly i didn't think. Someone on this thread made the excellent point tbat Elliot stayed deep which stopped may being an anchor, but it also dragged hiibo deep and we got no bounce from him. And Elliot killed him for good measure. But leaving their tactics aside, all our defenders had mares. May has been out of form for weeks and Lever looks injured (though I thought he did well on ginnivan). Hibbo had his worst game since coming back in, rivers look flat footed and Salem is nowhere near his best.

Its a good question. Maybe goody thinks we need to win the flag? Whatever the reason, the changes are evident.

The pies pressure was incredible in the last quarter. Finals like pressure is a cliche, but that is what it was. By far best pressure we have faced tgis season. And we couldn't go with them, which is a shock. They deserved to win. If they can sustain that level of pressure through a finals campaign they are a real show of winning a flag. But from our side it was such a perplexing game tactically. It was so much like the dogs game in that we didnt control the tempo like we normally do. We allowed it to be a run and gun for the entire first half. Which was working, except we didn't capitalise. There was only one period- in the first few minutes of the third, where we looked to lock it in, but that was more about stopping their tempo, not us going slow deliberately to take the heat out of the game And there were other weird things. The crazy number of handballs. That wasn't a pressure thing, at least not in the first half. It was clearly a tactic. We almost doubled their handball count. And we went next level with our new long clearing handballls forward into space. So many of them Then there are the other departures from our template - one tall, melk as a defensive forward (though he played that role in a few games late last year), Gus into the middle, harmes as a sub, Jackson and maxy almost 50 50 in the ruck, may only taking 70 odd percent of kick outs and kicking out less often to the one area (no doubt influenced by not having g a second tall forward). It looks like they are trying implement some prety significant changes to the game plan, or at least adding some pretty major tweaks. Lots of people have been calling for less predictability from goody. Well, goody had answered that call. That unpredictability was a factor in tbe ladt I tgought. Yes their pressure was a huge factor, but we often looked unsure of what we were trying to implement.

I was sitting on the city side wing, and in the amount of times we ignored free players inside 50 at tbe punt road end was crazy. They are going inside 50 as of we have our two tall set up. But is that set up possible? It hard to see weed coming back in again this season. But if they dont pick JVR next week, maybe they have no choice but to pick weed as Smith won't be ready you wouldn't have thought. They are playing maxy up forward to cover the missing tall a bit, but to my eye he looks as if he is still carrying an injury. He was amazing lsdt night but doesn't seem to be able to elevate.

This.

Could not agree more. Shirs me to death. I have a reserved seat but prefer sitting at the top of the Ponsford. But the GA seats are way, way up in tbe boondocks. Crap view from up there.

Spargo and kossie are every bit as bad as Ginnivan. And selwood has been doing it for years, just not in front of goal so it has been ignored. I agree they shouldn't get a free if tbe6 demonstrably drop the knees, but personally I'd prefer more emphasis on the tackler not going high. Tackle them around the waist and its not an issue.

The way the poor bugger is being umpired he wouldn't get a free for that!

As has been discussed, the pies go fast and push up hard. They will find that method harder to implement againat us than almost any other team, particularly their and aggressive fast ball movement because we are so good at forcing and punishing turnovers. But if they do get forward, we are also better placed than any other team to get over or through their high press and scoring on transition from our defence. Think of our very first goal last week. The ball was trapped almost on freo's goal line and their half forwards and mids were pressed up high, the way the pies like to do. Once we won the ball we were able to get through ther press and out into space. Handball from trac to viney, back to tracc and a 60 metre kick to kozzie running back towards goal, having started up around the half back flank. His opponent couldn't go with kozzie. Tracc could have chosen other options as all our forwards had pushed up and were streaming forward. Took all of 30 seconds, and only for possessions to go from one end of the ground to the other. Bang, bang, bang.

Then I've got nothing!

De goey probably thinks it the name of some random sex act. Don't google it jordon!

Assuming Bala is Ballarat, and assuming you will come into rhe g via the west gate, my tip is get off at Power Street, turn right onto city road and then just after the first set of lights, turn left at the next set of lights (a 7-11 is on the corner). Right behind the 7-11 is the entrance to the publuc car park underneath the eureka tower. I think it's only $15 for the park (should be half given the ridiculous shortness of each bay!). Great spot for the city and g. You can cross the river right there and walk along the Yarra to the G 15 -20 minute walk tops. And when you leave you are straight onto the freeway again and avoid all rhe crazy traffic around the g on punt road, Alexandria Ave et etc.

Short answer, very.

Where's bala?

I'm a proud twit, but all duck and no dinner is an old school saying. My grandpa used to say it. Back then duck was an exotic meal and saved for the rich folk (save the hunters of course) and probably for special occasions too. And duck doesn’t have a huge amount of meat on it He used to say it when talking about someone he thought lacked substance. All show, no real depth. But I think it means more something like the duck is all well and good, looks great and is tasty. But won't sustain you - not like a proper dinner. In the context langers used it, he is is suggesting their run and and gun style looks great. And works when it works. But by itself it is not enough. He talked about our defensive strength, and from that I take he is implying our game is more dinner than duck. Defence first football us sustainable. I love it, as much as anything that langers chose to use the expression. Less enamoured by the one trick pony jibe, which is closer to a direct criticism, and I'm not a fan of bagging opponents. But either way, his comments won't have any bearing on the result. So, all good theatre.

They haven't introduced tenpo control to their game yet. I say yet, because I'm sure they will at some point. The other big difference to us is they rely on moving the ball quick and aggressively for their scoring. Langers is right - that represents a structural weakness in their method. Take it away and they will struggle to kick a winning score. But they are likely to keep trying to go fast, which means they are likely to turn it over heaps. That might be ok against orher teams, but we will prey on, and punish turnovers. Which is how we generate most of our scoring. The only way to take that away from us is not turn it over. And the only way of avoiding that, if we are on, is play safe don't take risks (eg take on the corridor) and go down the line. Which is what we want. Catch 22. We will smash them.

Do you have any theories that might explain a post bye drop off by one of our aerobic beasts?

I don't think the first scenario will happen. I prefer Hunt with more freedom to run and carry, but you're right, he did some shut down roles, so he could go to ginnivan

Maybe hunt or rivers to daicos? Hibberd to Elliot. I don't like rivers or hunt on ginnivan, so not sure who gets him - though hunt might have to. Our half forwards and mids who push up will be important in stopping ginnivan winning ground balls inside 50.