binman

Bollocks. Leaving aside the fact that clarry missed half a season, a starting midfield of maxy, oliver, tracc, viney with Gus and sparrow as back up is the best midfield in the afl. Just look at the annual midfield award, the brownlow, tracc didn't win it because viney got 24 votes and before he got injured Oliver got votes. Leaving aside the ruck, our best 4 mids collectively got 60 votes (with our best missing half a season). By way of contrast Neale got 31 votes of the 47 votes their best 4 mids got (noting Ashcroft missed half a season - it says something aboot the lions midfield though that a first year player pllled the second most votes for a mid). And the pies had 63 votes, but daicos got probably aprox 20 of his 28 votes playing at half back flank. Port got 64 votes between rozee, butters and Horne Francis. But whilst all three are super impressive they are still young and in oliver and tracc we are talking about, what, 7 AA selections between them, god knows how many best and fairest (6?) and both already are considered amongst the best mids of the modern era. And on top of all that we have the best ruck of the modern era, and the best ruck in the AFL to feed our mids. Our whole game is based around the relative strength of our midfield in the sense that it allows us to play one less at stoppages to either put ahead of the ball in an attacking spot or an extra behind the ball. I'm pretty sure we are the only team that sets up this way. By contrast the pies and lions bring an extra to stoppages. Despite have less players at stoppages we were still sixth in the AFL for clearances, just behind port and ahead of the blues (whose game plan revolves around winning clearances) and the pies (who bring extras up). In fact I would argue we were over invested in pure mids and need a better balance - more like the lions and pies with more outside distributors. So no issue losing JJ.

I wasn't having a shot at you dd. And many wouldn't have picked him to finish top 10 - chronically under rated player. Well, not by the coaches and players, just fans. How did I go with my predictions? Picked the top 10 in order. Edit: picking the top 10 in order was meant to be a joke.

Nibla 6th.

Whitfield would have been great, but i am surprised at how how much heat Hunter has copped. I thought he was excellent this season - though his kicking was as good as i had hoped (it's funny how easily is it to over rate the skills of players from other clubs - i mean it makes sense, i don't watch other teams' game as intently or often as i do the dees - but its a bit like draft highlights)

No ANB?

This is a key point ie needing some players who can pierce zone defence by foot. Create scoring chains, but as importanty not turn it over Teams have needed such players, not heaps of them but at least 2 or 3, for a few years but the pressure and intensity in games has gone up a level and such players are more crucial than ever. We saw how important they are with Coleman's final series. Salo and Bowser played that role in 2021. Neither was as effective this year. Hopefully we bring at least one such player in, but regardless it will be critical salo has an uninterrupted and strong preseason. He never got close to his best this season and we really need a fit, firing salo.

Point of views?

I posted this in the rumors thread prior to the Grand Final, but it's a better fit here: If I were in charge of recruitment I'd be focusing on getting in: - one or two quality high half forwards who are elite athletes and decent kicks (ie two more nibblers - who by the by was our best kick inside 50 this year in terms of kick to score ratio). Bedford would be ideal (yes I know he ain't going anywhere) - a mid size half forward/utility/mid who is an elite athlete, above average to elite kick, wins their own ball and kicks goals (the player type I'm thinking of is McCarthy and Bailey from the lions. Sparrow is our equivalent. We need more sparrows) - a distributor from half back (or wing or outside mid) with elite kicking and decision making skills who can reliably execute difficult, high risk kicks - even under intense pressure (salo and bowey have been these players for us, but for diff reasons neither were able to play that role to the required level this season. I'm thinking of players like locasious, Coleman and anderson) - a second ruck (I've got no idea who) On the second point it is worth noting that in the Grand Final: McCarthy and Bailey both kicked 2 goals and their combined 4 goals was nearly a third of the lions' 13 goals Add Hugh McCluggage's 2 goals (he also had a match high 3 goal assists) and Robertson's goal and more than half of the lions goals were kicked by mid sized non permanent forward utility types Half of Collingwood's 12 goals came from their midfielders Our forward line 'issues' are a furphy IMO. All of our regular forwards, including Petty, are excellent set shots and pretty good from general play too. The key issue, IMO, is the poor execution and lack of goals and goal assists from our mids and utilities (wingers, flankers etc).

Perhaps no comment is an indication of our strategy? Which I hope involves giving clarry a massive rocket and wake up call. Like every dees fan I would be shattered if clarry left. But there was plenty of publically available evidence of lack of professionalism on his part this year. Applying the iceberg principle there was no doubt more stuff not in the public arena. Another year of distractions could torpedo next season and beyond. For goody it is all about creating a team that is contention every year. Culture underpins that goal. Crossroads for clarry me thinks. I was absolutely against trading out Watts. But I acknowledged the club had all the info and respected the right of goody to make the call. And hard to argue it wasn't the right call. I'll put my trust in the club to make the right call again.

A better gag than letting a degenerate work mate move in would have been something about having to manage another kid.

Tom is the Oscar of the Fogarty family

Bit old now. His best, playing for CCR, was some time ago now - though he was good in centrefield. So, don't put him in coach, he's not ready to play.

Agree, and to further improve the shape we're in, We best chase that big fella Flynn.

I don't care who we take with our first pick, So long as that player is an elite kick.

Inside mid would be my guess.

My comparison early this season to joey kennedy having to go to Sydney to get minutes has proven prophetic! (Nb: not saying jj is in Kennedy's class, just that the scenarios are similar ie mid who can't break into a star studded midfield)

Can kitty Coleman, Noah Anderson or Jack Lukosius ruck?

Well, i'll wager both will finish top 10 in the bluey. A couple more top 10 players can't hurt!

I have always loved naughton, particularly the way he flys at the ball. And he is a natural forward who times his leads super well. Personally I think that was a key issue for us late in the season. With no bb, melk out and jvr missing the blues game we didn't have natural forwards leading to the right spots forcing the ball carrier to make a good decision. You make a fair point about Petty's injury history. But assuming he does stay fit, a forward line with Petty, JVR (who after another preseason will go to another level), Fritter and McAdam - with bb, tmac and schache as back up - is not too shabby. So I don't think using up so much capital on another forward is what we should be focused on. I say this every year, but I'm clueless about the trade and drafting markets and all the related palaver. I get all my Intel from dl and am always amazed at the knowledge of posters in this space. So I've got no idea who is available or if these players are even remote possibilities. But if I were in charge of recruitment I'd be focusing on getting in: - one or two quality high half forwards who are elite athletes and decent kicks (ie two more nibblers - who by the by was our best kick inside 50 this year in terms of kick to score ratio). Bedford would be ideal (yes I know he ain't going anywhere) - a mid size half forward/utility/mid who is an elite athlete, above average to elite kick, wins their own ball and kicks goals (the player type I'm thinking of is McCarthy and Bailey from the lions. Sparrow is our equivalent. We need more sparrows) - a distributor from half back (or wing or outside mid) with elite kicking and decision making skills who can reliably execute difficult, high risk kicks - even under intense pressure (salo and bowey have been these players for us, but for diff reasons neither were able to play that role to the required level this season. I'm thinking of players like locasious, Coleman and anderson) - a second ruck (I've got no idea who)

On the espn footy podcast the champion data guy was talking about cadmans numbers around early august and saying they were woeful accross the board. Compared him unfavourably to jvr, noting he is a year behind (was in the context of praising dees for how we managed jvr). The worst player ratings to predicted average of any top 3 draft picks or some such.

Apart from the fact that he is woeful kick for goal. In all seriousness we should not be drafting or trading in any player who is not an elite kick. Not one.

In a way I'm glad tracc didn't win it. It would have been framed as some sort of consolation. Not by trac or the dees, but by the media. To not at last make this years gf is a fail. The last thing we need is a consolation to distract from that fact.

These are the only 'questions' you have posed in this thread: Who was responsible for it? (in reference to your assertion that 'Any way you look at it that’s a list management howler. Worse than the Grundy trade if we’re being honest' that frames any response) Will it hamstring our chances to win the flag next year? Should we try to come to an arrangement with at least one of these players to call time on their careers? These are not genuine questions to create reasoned debate. They are 'questions' designed to to create angst. Straight out of the troll handbook. The same book that Tucker 'i'm just asking questions' Carlson has on his bedside table.

Sorry, how do you get to Tmac and BB not contributing anything meaningful next year? I mean that presupposes neither will be fit and injury free next season. Or even if they are they will still offer nothing. Sure, both scenario's are possible, particularly the former But so is a scenario where one or both have brilliant off seasons (remembering Tmac basically didn't have one after 2022 as he was recovering from complications from his foot surgery) and play key roles in our 2024 season. Lets be honest, unless you haver the power of seeing the future, or perhaps have access to a top shelf Balinese Shaman, the following statement is not really acceptable: 'By the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons'