P-man

Agreed. I notice today he admitted he went a bit too far in his remarks, and that was before Trott pulling out.

Trott pulls out due to "stress related illness" - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-25/jonathan-trott-returns-home-from-ashes-series-due-to-stress/5115796?section=sport Big blow, out of form or not.

TD - that's why I said earlier that I wasn't amazed by this result. Even the poms would acknowledge in private that 3-0 really flattered them. The series was much closer than that, they just had every bit of luck go their way. Anyhow, it's a war, not a battle. Need to back it up in Adelaide. No mercy.

Smith could actually prove a very important figure at Adelaide, which still sounds strange to say out loud. I've been a critic of his in the past, and I think he has gotten a lot more leniency from his good mate in Clarke than others have been afforded. That said, his batting has improved enormously. On the Adelaide deck he will be able to put his improved technique to the test and won't be forced onto the back foot as much, which has often been his downfall when playing away from his body. He will be able to play his shots and could be pencilled in for a big innings. Throw in his leg breaks and he will be one to watch. The impressive showing of Lyon in this test also bodes well for Adelaide. Previously you would say England hold the advantage in the spin department, and still do, but the gap seems to have closed. Lyon is going from strength to strength. The poms will desperately want Trott to find some form. He's a class act, and they need him if they are going to bounce back from what was utter (delightful) humiliation at the Gabbatoir.

Your wish is their command, titan. Even some decent sized hail isn't going to prevent a win this time.

There was so much to like about Warner's innings. I'm not sure about the miracle transformation in his character, but there was a focus and maturity to that knock that was so refreshing. And after scoring 120 odd, he was as annoyed at getting out as if it had been 100 less than that. He was certainly talking up a big game before this series, but so far he is backing it up and then some. For whatever reason he seems to be in a good place, which will be vital of we are to win back the urn. I still think there are question marks over the batting lineup, especially with Watto looking so vulnerable, but will save those reservations for a gloomier day. Right now, life is good.

Anyone read the Daily Mail? On Day 1, their chief cricket writer Martin Samuel declared a "gulf" between the two sides with an English victory being a formality. Day 2, he berated Trott for gifting Johnson his wicket and, in his words, "giving a sucker a break". His take on Day 3 will be interesting to say the least.

I actually wasn't amazed to see it happen. A combination of Midgey finding form recently and the poms being unaccustomed to some proper chin music. The Lyon wickets were right out of the box though. Pity about the hat trick ball.

Last 6 wickets have gone for 9 runs. Haha..how sweet it is!!

It's no media beat up. He is not well liked. Partly because of the non-walk (for the record, I think when you've hit the cover off it and it's obvious to everyone except the one bloke who matters, you go), but also his general demeanour. He's the poster boy for this new breed of arrogant English cricketer. A horrible mutation. He laps up the celebrity side as best he can with his twitter antics etc. Let's be honest, it's fun to hate the opposition. Makes it a bit more interesting. I do respect his ability with the ball. Once he gets a roll on, he is very hard to defend against.

Wash your mouth out, RR. So many detestable characters in this English lineup, but he's the worst. Tremendous knock by Midge down the order, pretty much made a game of it once more. Hopefully he can back it up with the ball. Still have little confidence in this batting lineup as a whole. Sloggers do not a test team make. I wouldn't mind seeing Hughes recalled.

Oh dear.

On what basis can you say that? What's your reasoning? There is overwhelming evidence to suggest there are some things about Watts' game that won't change and will always prevent him from being a good, consistent footballer. I'm intrigued as to what Roos could get out of him but you're making it sound like it's a given he'll be transformed.

It's gettable, but the weaker tail we have in this lineup could end up being the difference between a win and a loss. I just hope Khawaja makes some runs in this innings.

Too early to call long-term value, but right now Wines is so far ahead it doesn't bare thinking. The kid is a star. I'd love to lure him home one day to play alongside his best mate in a partnership that could carry the midfield for 10 years, but fairy tales often don't happen the way you expect. At least PJ has identified player development as priority 1. Toump has some great attributes. He's a raw talent.

Cheers for the response Andrew but I was talking about Wines. Anyhow, in the light of day I don't want to turn a Jimmy T thread into another discussion about Wines so I'lll leave it there.

Did you want to elaborate? His impact on games, certainly in the first half of the season, has been phenomenal for a first year player. Happy for you to throw up some names for comparison.

It's Round 17 and he's in his first year of AFL. Not exactly surprising that he's dipping. It's still one of the best first seasons I've seen. Unfortunate for him that he's paying in the same year as the J bomb whose basically what you'd get if you genetically engineered the perfect AFL player.

There doesn't seem to be much discussion about the possibility of him having an illness, or simply not adapting to the conditions. There was more to it than just a bad game. He wasn't right tonight. He'll be fine. He proved his wares against the best in the league last week.

I did quite like how the English press dubbed him Agar the 'Orrible.

If this is true then the mancrush is well and truly on.

Funny you say that. When we were 9/117, and my mates were texting me with their frustration over our total capitulation, I told them this was what it was like being a Melbourne supporter for the past couple of years, only you have to endure it every single weekend. I think they finally understood.

Master stroke from Boof to bring in another batsman, then stick him at 11 and tell everyone he's a left arm spinner. Not every day a 19 year old carves out a piece of history for himself. Absolutely brilliant stuff. Agar might have a few records to his name now but what he's also achieved is remind me why I love cricket.

There's so much to like about Toump. He's got a very good head on his shoulders, especially for his age. Has future leader written all over him.

Did it the hard way, coming down to very last game of the group, but fortunately avoided the HARDEST way. I wouldn't have fancied going into a playoff against the likes of Chile or the old foe, Uruguay. Some very positive signs for the future in Oar and Rogic. Serious talents, both of them. The reality is that we'll likely get crushed in Rio, but who cares. A third World Cup in a row is a tremendous achievement. I might end up going to this one actually. Certainly beats Qatar.