P-man

That may be the case, although withdrawing the Ambassador seems pretty extreme to be merely a political stunt. I hope you're correct, because the relationship is too important. Whatever the case, Abbott's doctrine of a foreign policy that "focuses on Jakarta more than Geneva" is not exactly off to a flying start.

Gents, I prefer to think of myself as a bit left of centre thanks. Rob, I'm not going to pretend this situation is simple, it isn't. Asking a government to apologise for the actions under a previous administration is a big call. But the fact of the matter is that this is now in a damage control phase , and Abbott's responses are not helpful, they are the opposite. I would be saying that the demands for an explanation from the Indo government are understandable and will be met. Something about it being previous practice that will be investigated, and if it is needed, offer an apology. We're only doing this at the US's behest anyway. A lot of it can be diplomatic speak and [censored], but this needs to be hosed down, not dismissed.

Sorry Rob, but that is a load of rot. The act itself isn't the issue, governments do it. Don't call others thick if you can't even appreciate that. It is how this is being handled from here that is of utmost importance. Indonesia want an explanation. The Indonesian Foreign Minister's language could not have been stronger. As the Ambassador boards his plane back home, all Abbott has said this morning is "we don't discuss international security matters" and "we have a strong relationship with Indonesia". These wooden, dismissive responses won't fly any more and they are damaging. This is a big test for Abbott, and becomes even more crucial given Indonesia are on the cusp of elections. Their next President may not be as easygoing as the current one has been.

Wow, someone who wants to discuss the actual issue itself. Benjamin, take notice, Yes it occurred in 09, and Abbott can't be held accountable for the act itself. Indeed the act itself isn't what I'm critical of, it is the nature of Abbott's public response to the leak that I think has been handled poorly and has been cited by Indonesia as unsatisfactory. Is it a storm in a teacup that they'll just need to get over? Let's hope so.

Here's a link for those who give a [censored] about what's going on, taken from News Corp to avoid inevitable accusations of bias: http://www.news.com.au/national/jakarta-recalls-ambassador-as-diplomatic-tensions-rise-over-spying-claims/story-fncynjr2-1226762823093

A lot of lines to say very little at all. Which of my views are "over the top"? I think damaging our relationship with Indonesia is dangerous. I think supplying warships to Sri Lanka to propel a domestic policy, is dangerous. From both an economic and environmental standpoint, I think stalling on action on climate change and ignoring heavily weighted scientific opinion whilst spreading blatant misinformation about the issue is dangerous. I think lying about the state of the economy and budget is dangerous. I think hiding information from the public that it has a right to know is dangerous. So yes, on several fronts, I think he is dangerous. In hypocritical fashion, you say I'm over the top, despite the typically grand terms you use to describe Labor's time in government. I have no desire to be an apologist for Labor, but "rooting the country"? That's strong language considering we were one of the few Western nations to survive the GFC in tact with a AAA rating. The economy Abbott took over is actually a very healthy one, despite his rhetoric about "emergencies" during the election, bleating on about how you can't solve debt with more debt, then asking to increase the debt cap to half a trillion dollars for the next year, without even providing the budget figures. What do you believe in other than "I'm conservative", and "refer to point 1"? It's easy to disingenuously profess that you want to stop lives being lost at sea. What about the lives trying to escape persecution? Abbott plainly does not care about those. Do you? I'm not saying this a "diabolical catastrophe", but fracturing an international relationship which Abbott himself has described as our single most important one, is a serious matter, and only a blind follower would think otherwise. All you seem to want to do is try and discredit ME as some sort of alarmist. In his short time as PM, he has created a standoff over the asylum seeker issue, and now has arrogantly dismissed a leaked report, resulting in Indonesia removing its Ambassador with a statement that trust has broken down. And you think that should avoid criticism. I only recently started visiting this board. If there were political threads back then I wouldn't know. If you and Robbie want to sit around with your cone hats on, agreeing on what a great job Abbott is doing, I apologise for the inconvenience.

Yes, I'm thick, everyone who doesn't agree with you is thick. Most people grow out of that mindset when they hit puberty. It skipped you for some reason. But I understand all you can do is insult the intelligence of others so I don't want to rob you of that vital asset mate. Maybe you'll eventually grow tired of the sandpit. I wasn't a big fan of the PNG solution either (although it's worth noting that the bulk of the drop in arrivals happened under that policy before the new government was sworn in), but It's an oversimplication to say that Labor's policy is also to stop the boats - more consideration being given to how peoples are processed, and certainly more transparency compared to the indefensible circus we're getting now. Who the hell knows what's happening on our borders? You don't, because no-one does. In many senses, importantly a diplomatic sense, he is very much a dangerous man. It didn't take long for him to completely [censored] off Indonesia with his flippant, rookie response to the spying allegations. Now front page news even on Murdoch pubs. Indonesian Ambassador withdrawn from Canberra and all official positions reviewed. Pretty impressive. I didn't think he'd manage to do it this quickly. Yippee.

Chance of this thread being bumped in a few years: strong.

Fairfax pubs also absolutely hammered Gillard. I can provide a list of headlines if needed. The infatuation with perceived bias is getting really dull. It's just detracting from discussion of the issues themselves.

Negotiate with the Sri Lankan government on HOW the boats are to be used, if the true objective is a humanitarian one, and don't just fob it off as being a matter between the two parties. The public deserves to know that its foreign aid budget is not contributing to a regime that has received widespread, international condemnation. Stopping economic refugees and people smuggling is important as everyone acknowledges, but we're talking about a country with credible accusations of abductions, torture and the murder of civilians to answer for. There are people genuinely fleeing persecution from this country. Cameron has rightly called for an enquiry in order for Sri Lanka to truly move forward. Cameron however is a conservative leader with substance, not a lunatic on the war path towards "stopping the boats", and to hell with the consequences.

Noticed that too, seems to have lost a lot if it during the break. Vince is also skinnier than I recall. On the flipside, Grimes looks to be getting back to a good size, Howey is looking ripped, and Trenners is a solid unit but still has that baby fat thing going on.

Captured it well, bb. I can feel the lid slowly being peeled off..

Mentioned on BF that Bartlett is close mates with the head of AHG, so he may have played a key role in this happening. Not what you know, it's who you know. Loving it.

The good news keeps coming. Warms the heart to see Mitch standing there alongside his teammates. Fire up big fella.

lol..yep, that one got a fair run this year.

Oh yeah, he's a real softy. So generous is he that he donates boats to a country with a shocking history of human rights abuses so that they can prevent the efforts of innocent Tamils attempting to flee persecution, all under the pretence of "stopping this evil trade of people smuggling". So not only is he choosing not to condemn Sri Lanka's behaviour, he's ASSISTING it. The word "disgraceful" eventually loses all meaning when you use it so often, but with Abbott it's so often appropriate. Tone couldn't give two shits about lives lost at sea. It's insulting for him to suggest some noble cause behind his "stop the boats" tirades. A decent human being? You've deadset got to be having a laugh. For a renowned Christian, his attitude could not be more Un-Christian like if he tried. He's not even giving genuine refugees a chance to state their case. Make absolutely no mistake, your idol is a dangerous man Benny. He has his ideologies and if you stand in his way, you are shown no mercy.

I would only add that to those decrying the tanking punishment that was negotiated, it could have been a hell of alot worse than a 500K fine. No draft penalties in particular was vital, and Don played a major part in all that. Finger pointing now seems pretty pointless. The club is still here, and even that was no certainty.

Hated Schwab's collars from day one. Good bloody riddance. Hate Schwab's emblem as well, but if it stays it stays.

Haha..that doesn't surprise me.

In a strange twist, Abbott's speech when Rudd announced his retirement was probably his best moment since becoming PM.

It's a fair point. Has implications for the push into the NT as well.

I never thought he was going to be a star but I really wanted to see what he could do under Roos. Titan's point about two way running is valid, but I'd still have kept him over Nicholson. Oh well, all the best to him.

Now you're just trying to scare us.. Seriously though, well done Nash and co. This site is pretty much invaluable for us out of town folk. Time for another donation me thinks.

Knowing nothing of this kid, I can only say I like the write ups on him. Seems a worthy punt. Interesting to note it's yet another "clearance machine". Along with Michie, Tyson, Cross... who actually are the outside runners in 2014? Hopefully not too much onus on Watts, the makeshift midfielder. Time will tell.

The important question is, can he bat? If so, sign him up.