Radar Detector

I think this is spot on. We are now in a situation where Green is (I think) the only player eligible for the veterans list, is a very loyal servant, captain and his "annus horribilus" still yielded nearly two goals per game. He doesn't have the history of soft tissue injuries that Bruce and Junior had and, quite frankly, I think he deserves to be part of the start of our upswing. He can still be a valuable contributor to the side IMHO.

^ This. None of the players mentioned here or in the media thus far are of sufficient quality for us to really lock and load. Mitch Clark is a good player but much the same type as Stef. Dawes and Jesse White are over-hyped beyond belief IMO - the idea of trading a first rounder for any of these makes my nose bleed. What we really need is a gun young mid in the 20-22yo bracket but unfortunately there aren't too many available.

Again, the club has a clearly determined strategy to be competing for flags around 2015, not "any time soon". Our drafting patently illustrates this. I would much sooner strive for flags than have drafted Palmer, Rich, Darling etc and reach a peak ladder position of 5 or 6 over the next five years.

I really don't understand all the love on this site for Dawes. Sure, he's a serviceable key forward in one of the most dominant sides of recent times but is by no means a superstar and definitely not worth a first round pick. He's kicked 50 goals aggregate in the last 2 years with the Pies midfield and Cloke taking the best back. Would much prefer we trade a first round pick for an established young mid (like Josh Kennedy) or a gun 17yo (Jaeger O'Meara) than risk it on a plodder who is currently at his absolute peak trade value in the marketplace. He will never be more expensive.

Not sure I like the risk-reward factor of this mini-draft. We could offer both compo picks and there is no guarantee they would trump pick 4 this year if it was offered anyway. Does the tender process mean we have to spend the picks offered up even if we can't get the player we want? Because I would hate for us to end up losing both compo picks and draft Brad Crouch instead of O'Meara.

To be fair, any club would've given pick 1 plus something for Ablett last year too. The system is inherently unfair as it is not left to market forces to decide the players value. Best case will be the same as what Geelong got for Ablett.

My thoughts exactly! Rivers will become much more valuable as a genuine third tall that never has to play on a genuine KPF because all of Frawley, Garland and hopefully T-Mac can do so. I think Joel Macdonald is the one who would be in most trouble. I really enjoyed watching Garland taking the game on more on Sunday and reckon he is best suited to the role that Joel Macdonald (and Grimes earlier in the year) have played. I am actually salivating at the prospect of releasing Grimes into the middle with Garland taking that mid-size back role. Garland could be AA in that spot.

6 Frawley 5 Howe 4 Blease 3 Petterd 2 Rivers 1 Joel Mac

I reckon it's rough to single out Sylvia for ommssion. Jurrah has been below the required intensity all year but Sylvia has been one of our best players and there should be plenty ahead of him in the queue to be dropped. Green is an obvious choice, Garland is out of form and even Moloney is lucky given he hasn't fired a shot against decent opposition all season.

Apologies, didn't see the discussion of this in the leadership group thread. Feel free to remove.

Hi all Leigh Matthews has written a great piece on AFL.com.au about the Melbourne (and to a lesser extent Adelaide) coaching changes and the way that on-field leadership groups are now empowered to participate in the running of the club but don't have to abide the same level of scrutiny and accountability as the senior coach. http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/120035/default.aspx I thought it was an interesting view that mirrored the opinions of many on here that the leadership group is just not good enough. Should we have had a leadership group change post the Geelong loss as well as a coaching change? Or should captaincy changes be left to the end of the season?

If you include Tapscott that might somewhat address the kicking deficiency off the backline. Assume it was an oversight that you left him out?

6. Jones 5. Martin 4. Howe 3. Petterd 2. Rivers Nobody else deserved a vote and some of these guys were pretty marginal. Where do Jamar and Moloney go when we need them against sides with big midfields? For that matter, why does Jamar only ever tap to Moloney? Our midfield needs more tricks against teams like the Hawks.

I agree the manner of our losses is disturbing. I understand (and expect) us to lose to more physically developed sides like Hawthorn. What I don't expect (although unfortunately I'm starting to) is that every time we play a side like that we will get smashed by ten goals. Would be interested to know how many games we have played in with a margin of less than 39.5 (either way). We are too often right on or right off and don't seem to have the ability to grit tough games out. I do however see improvement in certain individuals that has me satisfied we're stll heading the right way. Watts, MArtin, Trengove, Strauss etc. have all made strides this year.

To be a top four contender, you really need the core of your best players to be physically mature and the genuine leader of your team (usually around 24-27yo). At present, our problems are two-fold. Firtsly, we only have a very small core of players in that age bracket. Secondly, the quality of these players is not quite at the level required for a top team anyway. We have two or three B+ graders in that age bracket (Davey, Sylvia, Jamar and Green who is a bit older) and some solid B graders (Moloney, Rivers, Martin). Of the B+ graders, only one has played to standard this year IMO and that is Sylvia. The rest have been below their best. All the top fourn contenders have multiple A graders in or around that age bracket. Collingwood's are right in the age sweet spot as are Carlton's and Hawthorn's. Geelong's and West Coast's are a bit older (which means they will probably fall back down the ladder quicker than the other three). St Kilda has a reasonable mix of senior plaeyrs also. Sydney, Fremantle, Essendon and the Kangaroos are all lacking a large core of senior leaders like the top 5 but have much better service from their top end (Goodes, O'Keefe, Pavlich, Sandilands, Watson, Fletcher, Harvey, Petrie, Wells etc.). In reality, we would need to either trade for probably two A-graders in that 24-27yo age bracket (not likely) or, in reality, wait for our core group of youngsters to fill this age/experience bracket in 2014-2015. This is no different from the journey we have been expecting all along. Still all about patience, no matter how frustrating it is in the meantime.

Yeah, one of the more ridiculous defences I've heard. The ball was nowhere near at the time and in any event, I've never seen a player try to clear the ball from the bottom of a pack with a roundhouse. Ever.

Daisy's appeal failed. Still out for a week.

It's also good to see Dane Swan boarding a plane for Arizona this week.

We seem to be in regular agreement on this point. Many are focussed on the game plan of the current day - hopefully we are developing one for tomorrow. Billy is merely offering his opinion that Bailey has the goods for the job. Many others proffer the opinion that Bailey is no good which is an equally premature call. Don't think there is anything wrong with Billy's opinion even if you mis-interpret it as fantasising. Oh, and if there are actually tons of other similarities with successful clubs, doesn't that suggest something... The real problem is that people's expectations of where we are at right now are way off reality. Would be nice to be a top four contender or even a consistent performer but it's not where we are at right now. It's not necessarily all Bailey's fault, it is the nature of young teams. I know people hate hearing that but it's fact. Half the football world creamed itself over GC's 66 point loss to Geelong last week becaue of the promise of good things to come. The team we fielded this week was younger and look at how well they played. We have had some amazing and some shocking results this year but as the group matures, the gap will get narrower and we will be happier as a supporter group.

Agree. From memory, Davey got 3 Brownlow votes in both games against the Pies last year? Given they choose never to tag him, I reckon he'll be a massive loss.

If Sylvia is out, Bartram (if fit) for Sylvia, otherwise Evans. No change if Bartram doesn't get up and Sylvia does.

On the positive side: 1. Most seem to agree that on Friday's showing he may not be the drafting failure some had called (way too early IMO) and may become an important player for us 2. I know it was only one game (and is largely irrelevant in the long run) but after all of the previous threads it was good to see him beat Zaharakis

This is where I disagree. It is a mis-conception that he is an inside clearance player because of his body type. His strength is actually his ability to run all day - he is in the fittest couple at the club. He will never be a Judd or even a Watson or Moloney in my view but I'm not sure we will always want him to be. That's what we are crying out for now because he is one of only a couple of bigger bodies in a midfield stacked with babies but in a couple of years this won't be the case. For Jones to take the next step he needs to work on his defensive game and keep improving his disposal and decision making. Aspirationally, he should be looking to someone like a Cousins or Crawford of a few years back.

I agree that wing has been his best position and he has been damaging kicking long inside fifty - he reminds me of a bit of a poor man's Ryan O'Keefe. Only issue is, does he bring more value to the side than others who might play this role and bring more skills to the table like Sylvia, Jones, Bail etc. or even Davey or Tapscott?

Agree. This notion that Jones is a C-Grader is complete bollocks. Geelong doen't have a team of Selwoods and Collingwood doesn't have a team of Pendleburys. Just because he isn't an elite mid doesn't mean there is no role for him even in an excellent side. The problem is that because of his body shape, people expect him to be a bash and crash mid where he is actually best utilising his elite running to advantage. Jones would, I think, get a game in almost every other side in the comp on current form.