Dr. Gonzo

On 23/02/2024 at 13:19, binman said:

Too bloody right - well said

Two things particularly annoy me about rubbish like claiming the dees will have failed if we don't get another flag from this group.

One, it is widely accepted as fact (repeated ad nausea by the media, coaches and ex players) that it IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO WIN A FLAG. It is also accepted as fact that this is even more so the case with equalization than say 20 years ago (bombers say hi).

Two, many of those same pundits (and lets be honest, some DL posters) think our list is over rated. 

Yet somehow us winning only one flag is some sort of failure? Please.

Talk about having your cake and eating it too. 

Where is the narrative about the Cats taking 11 years to win flag after 2011 despite being in the top 4 or 8 the entire time? And having the most ridiculous  home ground advantage in the competition? 

And the discussion also provides the haters a convenient out of we do win the flag this year - well they should have snagged another with their list. 

People are quick to knock Pies, Blues and Tigers fans for being so one eyed and 'feral'.

Well, i wish we had more fans willing to fly the flag and push back against the nonsense constantly directed at our club. 

We are an easy target in part because some of our fans be like:

'oh, yeah, you're right one flag would be a waste  given how talented our list is, which by the way isn't actually that good, over rated in fact by rose coloured glasses nuffy set, and nowhere near as good as that of the pies - by the way don't you just love Macrae, at least he knows how to talk to the media, unlike straight sets Simon' 

There has absolutely been that narrative about Geelong, especially after so many Prelim failures. Scott was on his last legs in 2021.

Pies, Blues and Tigers fans are feral, they also don't accept failure. Making excuses for this playing/coaching group isn't going to help. There should be accountability. Now that doesn't mean flag or failure, but straight sets two years running and a stale gameplan with cultural issues means supporters are within their rights to ask questions.

On 22/02/2024 at 12:53, titan_uranus said:

An honestly ridiculous take which stems from the unfair notion that we should win more than one flag with this list. 

It’s an unreasonably high benchmark.

Any club who wins more than one is incredible. But that doesn’t mean winning only one is a failure. Winning flags is extremely hard and gets harder every year equalisation continues to be an AFL focus.

Try asking Brisbane fans how they feel having won 0 from 5 years of contending.

The sooner Melbourne fans and the media stop saying a second flag is “the minimum”, the better. 

I think it also stems from having been stuck in our houses and unable to fully savour the flag at the G. Winning the flag was amazing but there's a hollowness to it that won't be erased until I see the Demons win a premiership at the G in the flesh.

1 hour ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

Binners, what do you think the chances are of helmets becoming mandatory?

Helmets don't do anything. It's the brain hitting the inside of the skull from the whiplash that causes the damage.

9 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I truly hope Maynard wears this as a millstone around his neck for the remainder of his life

He won't, he'll wear the 2023 premiership medal around his neck for the remainder of his life though.

6 hours ago, sue said:

Same old AFL-line waffle at the end of that.   No new rule was necessary to punish Maynard.

1 guess which club will have a player suspended as a result of the "new rule" to make an example....

6 hours ago, binman said:

Performative.

The AFL put on a woeful case and then didn't appeal a ridiculously flawed decision. 

AFL dictated Maynard must not be suspended and threatened media with their accreditation if they pushed against it too hard.

They're a despicable organisation, I've had enough of them.

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

why? so he can win the clearance, run around in a circle, then bomb long to no one in particular?

he's brilliant at the first part, the second part is fine if he can work himself into space, but his disposal execution post-clearance leaves a lot to be desired

As opposed to our other mids who drop it on a dime for our forwards? At least he wins the clearance.

Windsor looked pretty good

Kozzie must play greater midfield minutes

Viney was dominating early

Kicking/decision making going inside 50 still an issue

Seems not much has changed, Richmond minus Dusty and Baker should not have troubled us

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

I'd be flat out knowing any songs she sings, is she actually any good?

Typical pop, so if that's your thing.....

On 03/02/2024 at 13:33, Diamond_Jim said:

Get ready for Hubbl in a couple of weeks (launch date 14 Feb)

Not sure it delivers any benefit but it's the new Foxtel service to deliver Kayo and Binge. In reality it's designed to get you to put all your other subscriptions through it (Netflix, Disney etc). Bundling or "stacking" as it's often called is the new approach to maximising their $$$ returns. Other than one bill a month for all your streaming services it's unclear that it delivers much more. Perhaps a discount but no signs of that.

The streaming industry is clearly in a state of flux with way too many players

https://www.mediaweek.com.au/foxtels-hubbl-launch-binge-and-kayo-sports-accounts-moving-to-new-platform-in-february/

Sounds like they are trying to launch something to compete with AppleTV/Google TV. I'm assuming it won't effect the existing Kayo/Binge apps.

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Our disposal skills needs a fair bit of work coupled with the speed that we move the ball

And way more corridor football is needed.  We've got an excellent list of players with a stellar defence so why aren't we taking more risks

Agreed, that stuff usually comes with confidence, we did it earlier in the year notably against the Dogs and Swans but went into our shells later in the year trying to play too conservatively. With that comes hesitation and second guessing and then you just make a noose for yourself.

I hope we take the game on a bit more next year, I'd rather win 22 goals to 20 than 12 goals to 9 like our late season win vs Richmond.

5 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

It is, but I think we can win our first 3, losing our next 3 would be a disaster. The short break between Port and the Crows is going to be tough. I’d take a win against Port, with potentially a few rotations against the Crows. Lions will be massive, up until the finals of 2022 we owned them for a few years, regardless of where we played them. I’d be very disappointed if we can’t get over Richmond and Geelong.

Richmond will be interesting under Yze but I agree they are in clear rebuilding mode and we should really account for them easily.

I would also add that I don't think forward entries is the sole problem - at the end of the day we created enough opportunities, particularly in that QF, to win the game despite the quality of forward entries. It was our accuracy in front of goal that lost the game and perhaps a flag. Was it just a bad night? Or did we get spooked by the 92k boisterously pro-Collingwood crowd?

6 hours ago, Macca said:

On the surface of it, if you were a neutral observer, you'd be thinking that we are trying to make things deliberately hard for our forwards

Of course, that's not true but that's what it might look like. 

There was a similar argument when Neeld coached us.  Our default move was to hug the boundary but with unskilled players, that was a recipe for disaster

And make no mistake, the Pies are leading the way with regards to levels of efficiency with F50 entries.  McRae himself was a very efficient footballer and his team reflects his style

Goodwin on the other hand was an A grade nuts & bolts player.  Nothing wrong with that either as fearless football results (remember that mantra?)

But the FD needs to adapt and offsetting crowded forward lines requires speedy entries througn the corridor.   Precision kicks as well

That's not always possible because of the pressure around the midfield but our default moves forward requires a way more scientific approach.  It's not like we don't have the personnel to carry out such an approach

I agree to an extent but we really are our own worst enemy at times. It's not always down to precision kicking, look at how Collingwood delivers the ball to Cox, they lob it up in front of him so he can run onto the ball and crash whoever is in front. We do this on occasion but generally our kicks sit on top of the forwards head making them sit under the footy and making it easy for the defenders to scrag and spoil by jumping over the top.

We can fix some things up with our forward entries without getting a Nick Daicos who can laser kicks onto the chest.

6 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I was disappointed that it was really only Viney that remonstrated with Maynard. I would have liked to see the whole team jump the bloke but hey I'm not angry.

Hopefully kB round may see some natural justice. Again not angry.

Also for a bloke his size Max does get pushed around a lot but I guess that's just the nature of the man. He is a very decent chap.

 

I'm not saying Max has to play aggro but he does have to play smarter I feel.

16 minutes ago, Macca said:

@Dr. Gonzo 

Our endeavour, energy and attack on the footy was first rate during the finals last year, we were just short on application

 

I disagree, the way we came out against Collingwood showed that our endeavour was wanting. For a team that had a point to prove after 2022 it was extremely disappointing. We have allowed a 3rd rate hack in Cox to bully us for years and it happened again at the very first bounce where he ran straight into Max with his knee.

Our endeavour in the Carlton game was much better and we came out breathing fire but we didn't capitalise. I'm not so fussed about the Carlton game to be honest because other than the ignominy of going out in straight sets our dash was done in the QF.

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

For most of those 69 entries the ball came straight back out ... we didn't enter the f50 with any science attached.  Plus, a number of the entries were repeat boundary side entries.  And we mostly bombed it in

So we need to change our style to a more efficient style plus, we are too slow entering the forward line and we don't use the corridor enough

The inside 50 count was almost dead even against Carlton but the same problem stood out - the way we enter the forward line, the speed of those entries and the quality of our forwards

If you just want to have a giant whinge without analysis, go right ahead.  You'll be joining the ranks of the miserable pessimists that reside here (nothing to offer but whinge, whinge, whinge)

So what's your analysis Gonzo? (whinge-free)

My analysis is that we are too predictable going forward, we just hack it in like banging our heads against a brick wall instead of taking time to be more creative with the footy. Is this coaches or players? A bit of both I think. We do need to change our style, and we didn't. That's where the whinge comes from.

Kozzie needs to spend more time in the middle, he has speed and creativity which we sorely lack.

The cultural issues need to be knocked on the head.

The team seems either too complacent or they have a soft underbelly. They talk a lot about wanting to have a great culture and being ruthless but actions talk and they have floundered when it mattered two years running.

Can we turn it around? Yes absolutely. Will we? I think that's yet to be proven especially with teams like Adeliade, GWS, Carlton and I think Freo pushing for a flag over the next couple of years.

Heartbreaking performance for Browns fans. They've been smashed with injuries this year but was hoping for a fairytale Flacco run and a Balt/E AFCCG, not to be.

Texans very good and Singletary with a couple of good runs early opened the game up for them. Back to back pick 6s from Flacco and that's the ball game.

Just now, Macca said:

Collingwood play a different style which allows them to keep their forward line open (they are a counter-attacking team)

Their delivery forward is miles better than most as well (and that includes us)

With our style of bombing it in, we really need quality forwards who can win their own ball.  And that style did deliver a flag

But no longer in my view, we need to change our style but we still need quality forwards as why wouldn't you want quality forwards

My main concern are forwards creating separation and the delivery forward plus, I'd prefer a quality forward

So I don't make excuses, blaming umpires is an excuse

So the problem was that we didn't adapt our game style to suit our personnel. 69 inside 50s vs 37 to Collingwood.

Besides that we clearly didn't turn up to play in the QF and/or were spooked. We allow ourselves to be bullied (and I'm not talking about the Maynard/Brayshaw incident). That is either down to complacency or a soft underbelly.

On 11/01/2024 at 00:32, Macca said:

Exactly

The replacement forward line stood up manfully and tried their utmost

But if our forward line looked like this do we lose either of the finals?

HF Petracca*/Kozzie**  Petty    Fritsch

F    Melksham    JVR/Brown   Chandler

*Petracca not able to play forward due to the loss of Brayshaw

**Kozzie not able to have stints on the ball as he was needed in the forward line

Dark italics - not available

So not only did we not have key personnel up forward but we lost all balance and flexibility (up forward)

Despite all that we went down narrowly in both finals

The above forward line would have helped us win the '23 flag, without such a forward line we had very little chance (of winning 3 finals)

 

As opposed to Collingwoods formidable forward line 🙄

Hill Mihocek Elliott

McCreery De Goey J Daicos

Kozzie wasn't able to have stints on the ball because the coaches refused to play him there. After his round 1 suspension he spent very little time in the centre other than attending bounces at the start of quarters.

On 11/01/2024 at 00:01, Stiff Arm said:

Best list we have seen for decades, multiple A grade players.

2022 should've been a premiership, given the mega start we had.

2023 was unforgivable for throwing away the flag. Injuries to Petty and Melk are weak excuses.

Maysie was spot on, we missed a golden chance.

Goody, Taylor and Lamb developed a super list that worked well in the 2021 hub, but couldn't perform or behave in the real AFL environment. Four home final losses in a row despite i50 domination, there are problems beyond a couple of injuries.

IMO if we don't get our [censored] together on 2024, it's a long time until we will be able to compete again.

Can you imagine how it might look if we slip to bottom 8, with no home base, a bunch of aging stars, a coach under the pump for performance on and off field, and the AFLs attention returning to their darling big 4???

We got comfortable believing the hype that the Club has returned to the powerhouse we were 60 years ago

Fortunes can change very quickly

On top of that there seem to be cultural/behavioural issues which have not been managed properly. Oliver, Smith and the smoke around Goodwin, there seems to be leaking from the club to push narratives in the media - the governance seems to have slipped since Jackson was at the club.

On 10/01/2024 at 19:45, Sir Why You Little said:

That’s 4 Home Finals in a Row…..

Inexcusable.

On 10/01/2024 at 18:46, tiers said:

No.

2022 was crueled by injuries and we did not allow for recuperation and recovery during the season.

2023 was crueled by losing Petty and Melksham (who surely would have been worth 1-2 goals) and the illegal hit on Angus that affected our options in the first week of the finals.

Maysie was right - we are as good as them. Let's hope that better injury management and greater fortune with the timing of injuries will enhance our prospects for this year.

Excuses. Fact is when push came to shove we were found wanting two years in a row. This team needs a reality check, they are wasting a golden opportunity and seem to be content with 2021. That's a long time ago now and they seem to wilt under the pressure of big, hostile crowds.

2024 will tell a lot about the character of the players, coaches and club as a whole. Another flag with this list is non-negotiable.

Cleveland (1-6)

Miami (1-6)

Buffalo (13+)

Dallas (13+)

LA Rams (7-12)

Tampa Bay (1-6)