Little Goffy

Mate, doesnt incosistent proformances show you that he is mentally soft. I also have heard from reliable sources he is a big drinker and gambler...I honestly hope I am right. He has all the potenitial in the world, but he just does not put in the hard yards IMO. You are entiteled to you opinion.

You have heard from reliable sources, have you.

Just as soon as I find a 'reliable source' who merrily dishes out dirt on Demon's personal lives, I'll be just as sure of my opinions as you are.

Oh, and I'm ever so thankful that you have granted me permission to have my opinion.

Which is -

Travis Johnstone has had a poor year but has worked hard to try to get through it.

He was putting in a great game on monday, I was beginning to think he might be coming back to the kind of form that won him a best and fairest. But then he tweaked a hammy and we'll never know how he might have gone on with that game.

I'm hoping that he'll be right in a fortnight to play Richmond, because at the very least he demands attention from opposition midfield-defenders, because he is such a creative and damaging player that he can turn games in the blink of an eye.

Like everyone, I worry about bad form from a top player. I guess I just don't see the point making personal attacks on him from the anonymity of an online forum.

Oh, and would everyone please GET OVER you're hate-crush on Godfrey.

"We'll never win a premiership with 'x' in the team" has got to be one of the stupidest sayings in football. Do you think Sydney was entirely comprised of Barry Hall's and Brett Kirks? Was Essendon five Dustin Fletchers, three Lucas's, eight James Hirds two Michael Longs and half a dozen Lloyds?

Actually, on that saying, and while we've got Essendon in mind - the Bombers won a grand final by ten goals with CHRIS HEFFERNAN in their team.

You might remember. Then again, you're probably still complaining about Troy Simmonds' pathetic stats for the day.

Go Dees - and Go Blues (one more win and they lose their priority pick. Haha)

Heh heh.

My brother is a Carlton supporter. He pointed out last week that it was the first time in two years that Carlton & Melbourne both won on the same weekend.

How far back would we have to look to find two wins in a row for both clubs?

Possibly 2000?

The thing with Miller is I just don't see what value he offers us. I like mobile, flexible players. The modern game requires good decision-making and execution. Turnovers are critical. Miller just does not have natural footy smarts and in his time at the club has not developed his kicking to a sufficient AFL standard.

I don't see what he offers us on top of Bate and Sylvia. He only takes marks on the lead, which Bate and Sylvia can both do. They are better kicks and smarter footballers. If Miller could pull down pack marks and kick multiple goals, he would offer something. But what he gives is adequately compensated by Bate and Sylvia, plus they provide added flexibility in their ability to pinch hit through the midfield if needed.

I don't think Miller should get back into the side unless he can develop different strings to his bow. He needs to be able to take contested marks, kick goals and use the ball better. If he can't develop these attributes, then there isn't much point playing him IMO.

Hey, it's a post I agree with, literally word for word.

Has this sort of thing ever happened on here before?

Freaky.

Bruce had a dog of a game, as far as his kicking went. Considering he was pushed forward to kick goals, that's a real dog of a dog of a game.

Still does a lot of clever things and you can't doubt his initative.

But damn, 4 behinds, no goals. We would all have been seriously filthy about it if we'd lost.

Still, kicking can be practiced. Bruce's 'x-factor' can't.

If he can get the kink out and stop mangling the bloody thing, he would be right back up there with the pre-crunch Bruce we all loved.

So then, if Neitz needs a rest is Miller perhaps the replacement?

I'd try him close to goal, but honestly Bate and Sylvia are sharing a CHF/HFF role so well that I don't think Miller will be a regular at CHF again.

It's close to goal or bust for Miller, especially with competition for spots in defence so tight as well.

Retrain his brain at Sandy, get him kicking goals, then he might get a run at AFL.

And to pre-empt Yze_Magic -

"If Miller gets a f$^ing game anywhere then we might as well throw it in. He's just not up to it, to one-dimensional, lacks initiative and makes bad decisions. 'Retrain his brain?' He'd need a whole new central nervous system before he should be allowed back onto the MCG"

But seriously, Miller really does need to change something dramtically if he's going to get back in as anything but a depth player.

Either that or the big 'mid-age' step up like Carroll did last year.

I thought Davey was pretty quiet for a lot of the match but improve as it went on.

Poor Bruce... what a dog of a day for him.

ROBBO!! ROBBO!! ROBBO!!

More good performances from our younger squad, Bate, Sylvia, Bell, Mclean, Petterd, Paul Johnson (who took some very fine overhead marks, you may recall) all had pretty good days out.

How satisfying was it to see first Sylvia and Mclean just burst through people to set up goals, one after the other?

And special mention for No. 2. I never had the priviledge of watching Robbie Flower play, but that little re-enactment by Jones of the swivel-around-the-man move that must be Flower's most replayed highlight was something special.

Loved Holland's scragging of Rocca. too. Spare a thought for all the poor buggers who had Rocca in their dream team.

And finally, a big special mention to the defenders coming back from wretched injury runs. A lot of us, myself included, were getting the feeling we might have seen the last of both Bizzell and Wheatley at AFL level. Bizzell was good all day with a tough job to do, Wheatley was just priceless. For once I enjoyed some daft commentator chat when they started talking about Wheatley's 'Big Weapon'. (The booming kick, I'm fairly sure)

That Bulldogs game with Jeff White winning it for us in the dying minutes produced my first ever football-related injury.

I'd been getting steadily louder and crazier for that whole last quarter, and for the final passage of play after that goal (remember a goal the other way would still have costs us the game) I was standing on the seat waving the scarf over my head and screaming for the bloody siren to go. Couple of security 'attendants' were hovering in the area ever-so-subtly. Gotta love a bit of official interest in my enjoyment of a fine game...

Even a few of my usually pretty placid friends were having a shout about that game.

Anyway, the injury - turns out I actually did scream my guts out, I had to be kind of 'helped' out of the stadium leaning on friends because I'd managed to wrench something, so we're winding our way down the exit ramps with me doubled over, still can't stop grinning and shouting, and spurting out the occassional 'arh F%#' as my gut spasms.

Great stuff.

thomas deperated in a fairly unceramonious way, whereas if danner's went it would be largely attributed to our terrible season and win-loss ratio. Don't think they're really comparable situation..

I reckon these blokes will be fine.

Yeah, you've got to remember that Daniher has been given a pretty good run - very few people would have been cheering for him after 2003 but he still got the nod to continue.

I don't think there would be much bitterness in the departure, which always helps a transition.

Hell, maybe Danners could just take a load off and coach Sandringham for a while, finally get himself a premiership!

Honestly, I'd be much more concerned about replacements. Like it or not Daniher has been a good coach and who'd blame the players for being annoyed if he was ditched just for the sake of it, without a good succession in place.

Like I've said before and will keep saying for ever, we need stable, long-term assistant coaches who can be groomed to step up to the main role in future. Ideally, these would be 'favourite sons' committed to the club. My tip is Viney to shift over from the Hawks.

The story is that my grandad played reserve level for Melbourne around when Julius Caesar was asassinated.

Seriously, the best detail I ever got was 'between the wars'.

He's passed away now so I'll never be able to say for sure, I guess. There is a terrible possibility that he might have actually played for South Melbourne, that would be embarrassing. Particularly since I'd still stick with the Demons without a blink.

Anyway, my brother was introduced to AFL when visiting some friends in Melbourne. He kind of brought it back with him, the problem being that these friends were Carlton supporters, and he's been a Blue ever since.

It was only when he started yacking endlessly about the Blues that mum mentioned grandad's playing history. Damned if I was going to support my brother's team, so Melbourne it was.

And that happened... wait for it... early in 2000.

So the support was set firmly in my mind, and I have serious issues with anyone who talks about trading Green or Bruce!

A side note - having grown up in Rugby League land, with the bloody Canberra raiders winning everthing and the neighbours going berserk, I built up a good understanding of both games.

AFL really is, without a second thought, a much, much better game with a much, much better culture.

I laugh at Rugby League anytime I see it - watch for ten minutes, have a chuckle at how drab it is, then flick it off.

i think we lost our second round pick in 2000, perhaps our 3rd also...

we also got godfrey (not 1999 according to wikipedia) along with james cook and steven pitt from the preseason.

Godfrey was technically in the 2000 pre-season draft, you're right. But I lump a 'drafting session' together - so I refer to the draft period between 1999 season and start of 2000 season as '1999'. He debuted in 2000, so I'm assuming the 'pre-season' draft was before the season.

Whelan in the forward line!

Freaking genius, that is!

He'd add a lot of pressure against the defenders, work hard to keep it in there, could negate rebounders like Mcleod, lay some killer tackles to get frees inside 50m, and be a tough player read to extract crumbs from messy packs. It's very easy to picture him creating that extra half second it takes to get a shot away.

The risk would be limited - I think we could count on Whelan to find a way to contribute even if he just couldn't get a win up forward. He wouldn't be one of those 'no goals = no point' forwards, that's for sure.

I'd want to see how well he hits a short lead or snaps at goal, but damn, there's a really possibility there.

Expanding on the idea of divisions, and maybe relegation, in the state of origin, how about the winning state of origin team earns the right to tour Ireland for the international rules series.

It would add an extra incentive for sure.

You'd have to balance it, though. When the Irish come to Australia they could play the each state team in a tour match series.

This would go some way to balancing the ledger in the 'professionals vs amateurs' issue, as well.

Just throwing a thought out there.

could this be our biggest problem in terms of list development we're facing?

any ideas?

No, no it's really not.

Seriously, no.

Young midfielders / rotation runners from HB/HF =

Mclean, Sylvia, Bate, Bartram, Bell, Moloney, CJ, Petterd, Jones, Davey (10 already) and the untried but possible Buckley.

Add Wheatley, Dunn and likely even Frawley for some tall mobile options in a pinch.

Then you've got the established midfield of Bruce, Green, Johnstone, Whelan and Godders (4) and the older runners of McDonald, Ward, Brown, and even Yze and Pickett (5).

How 'bout that, we could have a starting 18 entirely of players capable of rotating through the midfield, plus a bench of mobile talls.

Barring a total failure of recruiting for three years in a row, I can't see us getting caught out in the midfield.

I'd suggest focusing on mobile ruckmen and key position players for a while, given that they typically take longer to develop than small-medium sized runners. White and Neitz seem to be the two players most difficult to replace of everyone we have even remotely close to retirement age.

I'd really hate to end up in a situation where a credible player gets shown up again and again because they were handed too much of a burden before they were fully matured (Zac Dawson should bloody well sue).

Of course, Newton may be about to kick 10 in a quarter for Sandy, which would at least reassure me on one count.

Remember that we still have just about the longest injury list of any club at the moment. Five weeks from now we'll be shocked by who can't get a game in our running brigade.

james hird just confimed a few hours ago that no matter the conditions, form that he is in; he will be retired by the end of this season.

Except maybe to Captain/Coach the ACT State of Origin Team for the next thirty years.

Yze in and brown dropped! buckley named emergency along with brown and holland

I must admit I kinda thought it would be Ward who'd be dropped, even though he got twice the possessions of Brown.

Brown did a job on Mcleod, and did it well.

Ward has just been too loose, and his, uhhh... overexcitement... in the last quarter was one of the reasons Adelaide was let back in the game.

I love em both, I really do, but I like Ward better as a BOG player at Sandy.

Interesting lists... I'm surprised he actually bothered about the ACT. Bloody Hell most Canberrans born and bred here consider themselves defacto New South Welshman anyway.....

Like hell they do!

There's a country town near Canberra called Queanbeyan, just over the border in NSW. That place's long-standing reputation as the number one home of derros, bogans and junkies has really helped Canberrans insist they're not anything like NSW.

Canberra is a split personality city. You'll see a lot of Tuggeranong (Aaron Hamill) people go to Sydney as soon as they finish school, and a lot of Northside (James Hird) people end up in Brunswick, Carlton and Fitroy.

And seriously, people in Canberra get 'imported' from all over the country to work for the Federal goverment. Having a good 'spread' in your staff profile is considered the pinnacle of HR success. The number of Adelaide supports is scary, a whole bunch of families were moved from Adelaide to Canberra in the early nineties for reasons which remain a mystery. Happened right in that gap after Adelaide starting up and before Port Adelaide came to AFL.

Strange city, this one.

This is the one game a year that a heard of Melbourne barrackers (not supporters) go to.

67,473

Yep, same principle, slightly higher estimate.

I think the slightly silly finals talk by Greeny during the week (was just on that thread) might actually sucker a few of the 'soft' supporters to come along!

73,500.

And I'd like to take this moment to thank all the filth ferals for coming along to make their annual donation to the Melbourne Football Club watch the Pies get their annual spanking.

Will "annual spanking" be moderated out? Sounds dodgy, and painful if you're on the wrong end of it.

Finals or not, I guess the underlying thing is - we want to climb the ladder. Good sign that no-one here is getting excited about number 2 and 18 draft picks. From here you'd have to say snarling and clawing our way out of the bottom four would be something to take a shred of pride from.

I want to see a series of wins that we can point to and say "We got got back up and produced good football, and gave our young players some development time". Even if all it means is we look back and say 'If we'd played like that all year, we really would've been top 4".

Though we seem to end up being able to say that every year.

At least my growing confidence in our defense gives me a glimmer of hope that we can shake these ^#%#%ing awful losing streaks soon, and for the long term.

when nick "revolt" gets a boo-boo and cries who is gunna wipe away his tears? I want our team to become the hard-as-rock fierce team that other teams fear to play because of our physical and mental toughness....which we are starting to develop with jones, brocky etc. give bate time to improve and he will be better than revolt in my humble opinon.

I suppose Gary Lyon was soft, too? He definately cried at least once - he was such a sook they had to pick him up and carry him home to mummy on a stretcher.

Sorry, but a moment's emotional outburst when you're in serious pain and just realised you'll be out for most or all of the season really doesn't outweigh the dozens of incredibly couragous marks Riewolt has produced.

Riewolt and Rivers in the same team...

Can't you just see them competing for 'most courageous mark' honours?

Right, I was undecided before, but with that thought I'm sold on trying to pick up Riewolt.

It is well documented that Riewoldt was not happy Jan when Cornflakes got the sack. He is also out of contract at season's end.

Realistically, our chances of getting Judd to the club are close to zero.

However, I reckon it seems that Riewoldt may well be a great option bc he is a gutsy, hard working and skilled CHF who may actually be able to be lured.

I hope we are putting massive energy into getting him to the demons from 2008. It would enhance our list massively.

Hmm... if we traded Miller (which, honestly, looks like it would be best for Miller) then Riewolt would be a very handy addition without causing much intereference in the team structure.

The Demons have managed to keep a steady ship as far as club politics goes, despite a poor start to the season. I think it might be a good selling point to Riewolt that we have shown a few years now of no silly buggers tolerated in the club leadership and list management. Could this be the first tangible on-field benefit of Paul Gardiner's steady presidency? Certainly it's a point of difference between the Demons and Brisbane.

In a funny twist, Brisbane might take Miller if they can't get Riewolt, which could be the missing piece for us to get Riewolt. Or it could be a direct trade Miller +2nd rnd pick for Riewolt. (bargain? how about Miller and Jamar for Riewolt?)

Urrrr... even the thought of trade week makes both my head and my heart ache.

Other question - Grant Thomas gets along well enough with Daniher doesn't he? Because you'd think Riewolt would stay in touch with him, wouldn't you? Last thing we'd want is a star player with a 'ghost coach' unsympathetic to the new club!

I'm quietly hoping that the 2003 draft will turn out as good as our incredible 1999 draft.

Sylvia, Mclean, C. Johnson and Davey(rookie)

vs

Green, Wheatley, Bruce, Whelan and Godfrey(pre-season)

Note that with Wheatley having just played his 100th and Godfrey just three games shy of also clocking 100, that would mean that all five draftees from 1999 will have passed the 100, which is a fair mark of whether they 'made it' at AFL level.

There is no denying that 1999 set the shape of our team since (for better or worse), but I actually feel even better about '03 because that draft has been backed up by some good solid drafting in the years after, whereas the '99 draft preceded a drafting slump where we only did OK for a few years.

Anyway, Sylvinator, you basic call looks right to me, though I would be quite so quick to tip '200 games' for everyone. Even Whelan might not make 200, and that's just been through bad luck, obviously not a shortage of ability or effort. I like the '100' line because it gets the player's name on a locker.

Craig Cameron

Guys we dont like it when people pigeon hole us as [censored] weak, snow bunnies etc, you prob shouldnt do the same especially after the threads that have been going on lately about "passionate melb supporters"

"white colour(sic) criminal" they say.

"I can not wait for these(sic) day!"

"we are the loyalist(sic) football supporters, THE WORLD HAS EVER HAD!"

Damn, I couldn't finish the first post.

I love some of the suggestions they came up with for their revenge banner - especially "Season Dee-railed". Somebody please make a point of asking to borrow it when we're eight goals up halfway through the final term.

I also liked the way they've fixed on 'what goes around comes around' as the motivation for the revenge banner, without noticing that they'd been s&^%ing everyone off with their 'Game over' banner for months before we dished it back to them.

Seriously though, that 'Season Over' banner was a masterpiece, cruel perhaps, but a perfect whack at the filth and their insane arrogance.

"we need a witty one liner to remind them what a shite club they really are...." they say.

They need a lot more than that.

S**t at best today Thommo. Godders had him covered from the first bounce.

Now why didn't we think of that?

Obviously anyone's brownlow odds will lengthen the week after they have Godfrey tagging them!

Should've waited til after the game.

Meanwhile, how freaky is it that I'm starting to have real confidence in Godfrey doing a good job week in week out?

But don't let that fool you. We haven't won in Adelaide for years, likewise Subiaco. That's already 2 games we are more than likely to lose, so there goes the finals fantasy.

I hate media Mondays <_<

And there is where the problem with thinking about finals is - we've all done it on here wioth our post on this subject. As soon as you start thinking about finals you start thinking about 'well, we can beat them, and we can beat them, but that will be a loss... and so on".

Frankly I think it's where the Demons have fallen down a lot, like dropping two games to Carlton last year - 'we can beat them', 'we are the better team'. And then out they come with a second rate effort.

I guess the big question is, would Green go back home or to training thinking 'I want to make finals, so I have to give everything to win this game, now'.

That I'd be ok with.

'Demons determined to never lose again' doesn't sound too bad

All the the talk about Judd Pavlich ect. Is it worth a punt on Ben Cousins, I think he would

Be worth a punt at Melbourne and would come without a large trade loss.

What do you guys think?

I think it would be shameful of West Coast to even consider letting him go as a cheap trade.

They let his mess pile up, they were his club when he got into trouble they should be his club as he gets out of it.

Cousins has to take responsibility for his actions as an individual and claw his way back to respect, but West Coast have to stand by him. That's the deal between player and club, and it would be many years before I'd respect West Coast again if they don't stick by him now.

Besides, with Judd leaving to the Demons they'll be needing a star midfielder.